Small Scale Military Headquarters

Just wanted to bring up Dragon pricing to everybody. I don't mind paying $10.00 - $13.00 for a 1/72 model, but it appears that Dragon is going to hover around the $15.00 and up range, which I think is a little high. I can purchase the Matchbox 1/72 tanks for about $8.00 and have found some of them for $4.00. The come in a nice diorama setting, also. My main concern is that these are basically plastic models and they are fairly small. The CDC tanks were $24.95 and up, and are true "diecast." The $20.00 for the Hornisse is ridiculous. It looks nice, but so do most of the Dragon models. The E100 is ca. $25.00, and the T-34 is above $15.00.

Don't get me wrong. I am a capitalist, it just seems that Dragon is going to ease these prices up to "test" the waters. I would especially like to know what Lightning2000 thinks, as well as everybody else.

P.S. I found two M4A3 Matchbox Shermans, 1 Panzer IV(Short barrel), and one Churchill, all in diorama settings for $7.99 at Tuesday Morning. I already have these, but know that they are becoming scarce. If anyone would want these, let me knpw.

Hi Phillip,
I too have been wondering about ther spike in prices for the last few Dragon releases. While the dollar increment is still on the low side, going from a $15.99 to a $19.99 price point equals a 20% price increase. I dont know what their production costs are running to justify the increase especially now that Unimax has entered the fray and undoubtedly others will follow.

On the plus side, the Hummels/Hornisse/Nashorns do look quite nice so I dont think that many prospective customers will pass them by, especially since most of them eventually rise in value. (Itcbj, that Abrams will eventually go up, mark my words! ).

Anyway, once you hit a certain price point, people start to look a little differently at the item, oftentimes comparing them with the next scale up if they're just into collecting and not necessarily into 1:72 scale wargaming. When you consider you can purchase a Corgi 1:50 scale Legends piece for around the same price, people start to put them side by side and make comparisons, even though Corgi doesnt currently offer any SP guns.

I still think they're worth the price even at that level although I admit I'm a vendor and see things a little differently than a collector. It may be that they're also including figures with some of the more pricier items from here on out, like they just did with some of their 1:72 scale aircraft, although I didnt see any figs in the photo.

I'm starting to get long-winded in my response, so thats just my two yen.

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.bigstep.com

I think the higher price for the Hornisse is justified since it will have an open top. This means a detailed interior which will be unlike any of their previous releases, and surely takes much more time to produce than all the other tanks with regular turrets.

The price increase on their other latest releases does seem to me rather odd though. I think they are doing it simply because they know they can. The latest T-34 is $15.95 and has no more detail and is not any bigger than any of the other tanks ever released so there should be no reason for the extra price.

However, the T34 does include a "grass dioroma" which is possibly why they feel it should cost more. If that's the reason, they can keep their crappy looking grass diorama as I'd rather pay less with a simple black plastuc base since I take all of my Dragon Armor out of the packaging anyway.

The Hornisse is just begging for a crew, that's for sure. I already have a nice 1/72 metal gun crew ready to be painted, so once the Hornisse is released I will have the figures ready to be placed inside.

Hi,
Tshintl raises a good point. Since this is their first open topped armored piece, Dragon now has to address the interior of the vehicle as well as the exterior. I also hope they solved the problem with "barrel droop" which oftentimes occur with vehicles sporting elongated gun barrels. It'd be a shame if they all go "limp" once they're taken out of their protective packaging.

Finally, I wouldn't be surprised if Dragon comes out with an all-purpose SP gun crew, that could be bought separately and used with all their upcoming artillery. Sure would like nice and they're already showing indications with other releases that figures are the next part of their strategy. Could buildings, shrubbery, and other paraphenalia be far behind?

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.bigstep.com

With the current price of gas and the subsequent increases in transportation costs, I'm not surprised at the Dragon price increases. I'll have to agree with the grass dioramas, they look cheap to me. Also, I am not completely enthused about the quality of the T-34s. They look a little small to me and seem to lack the quality of previous releases like the E-100.

One sticking point about Dragon is that they keep all of the price increases. They leave the dealer with the slimmest of margins on all of their products. Only thirty percent mark-up on figures, for instance, so a $40 retail fig that is discounted to $35 on the net, actually costs the dealer $28 plus shipping. Add in all the costs involved with keeping a business running, and there is nothing left for the boss. I had a small account with them once and simply couldn't make any money on their goods. On the other hand, they are an excellent company with which to deal from a professional standpoint (good on the phone and prompt delivery), so there are new dealers constantly signing on to meet our needs.

lightning2000 wrote:Hi,
Could buildings, shrubbery, and other paraphenalia be far behind?

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.bigstep.com

That would be great. I think painted figures are a given since Cyber Hobby keeps releasing limited edition pieces with figures (and what's the deal with the Kubelwagen). Now that they have this Dragon Armor diorama showing they can at least do sections of buildings and even scenic groundwork might just be a hint at what's to come.

All very exciting, and I hope they unveil some never before seen pieces at the Dragon Expo.

Hi,
Well, if they do decide to unveil something new, we'll be taking photos and post 'em the minute we get back.

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.bigstep.com

Dragon's continual price increases are a turn-off.

Hi,
I have a feeling that as they start to release some of the early war and smaller WWII tanks (Shermans, Pz IVs, etc.) you can expect to see more fluff like the grassland base to offset their small size vis a vis the larger Tigers, Panthers, E-100s, etc already available. Frankly, I think they ought to continue offering the vehicle by itself in the Dragon Armor series, then offer the extras (grassy base, shrubbery, etc.) as separate add-ons the customer can pick and choose from. As you indicated, why buy something you'll never use if you're simply taking the vehicle out of its packaging and displaying them the way you want? That, or they can offer a standard release and a deluxe version, much like the standard issue and special issue.

Cordially,

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.bigstep.com

I'am surprised that the list price for the Hornisse is about $3 less than the super heavy tanks.
I'd have thought they would have been quite a bit more because of the interior/exterior detail as compared to the heavy tanks which have been plain janes.
Cyber Hobby will probably add the gun crew.
I wonder if Candoo will be releasing armored locomotives next?

Hi,
You could be right about CH adding the gun crew to enhance the SP guns. As for other ideas, how about a tank being manufactured at the assembly building with a crane in the background lowering the turret onto the chassis while a laborer stands by?

Other thoughts would be a V-1 or V-2 diorama, Atlantic Wall set (this could be constantly upgraded with trenches, strongpoints, etc.) Bailey bridge-building set, landing craft scenario, Battle of Stalingrad diorama (again could be upgraded), Iwo Jima set (ditto re: upgrade), evacuation at Dunkirk scenario, Battle of El Alamein scenario, Battle of Tobruk scenario, , Market-Garden scenario, etc. I think themed battle sets are ideal in 1:72 scale, all of which could be purchased in add-on modules. Certainly the collectibility issue would be addressed and they could offer a non-descript module which could be mixed and matched with some of the themed set.

Anyway, just my two rubles...

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.bigstep.com

Personally I resent the continuous upward spiral in Dragon's pricing, as well as their constant release of "specials". These are not die cast, they are mostly plastic and their treads don't even move. We are paying what are getting to be outlandish (in my opinion) prices for static plastic models. They of course can get away with it because our hobby is (apparently) growing and there is a regular influx of newbies who look and think-"well, that's what they cost". So they are willing to pay it. Don't forget that the original 60001 cost only $9.99. The Hornisse is a 100% price increase in only about two years.
This all puts retailers in the uncomfortable position of having to pay high(er) wholesale prices for the newest items never knowing if that gamble will actually pay off. I've seen some of these DAs sitting on my local hobby shop's shelf for nearly a year now! He had to sell about three just to pay for each of the ones he's stuck with...
Now where to go to buy Dragon stock??

Hi,
There could, of course, be another reason why they're raising the prices beyond the points we've already covered. Its possible, and this is conjecture on my part, that they plan to offer less re-issues of a particular model and again focus on coming out with new product as a means of covering their manufacturing costs. I think that may be part of the problem why you may be seeing product sitting on a shelf for extended periods of time. As an example, how many Jagdtigers does the average collector really want to add to his/her collection (Henschel turret, Porsche turret, zimmerit, non-zimmerit, different formations, special versions, limited versions).

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.bigstep.com

lightning2000 wrote:I think themed battle sets are ideal in 1:72 scale, all of which could be purchased in add-on modules. Certainly the collectibility issue would be addressed and they could offer a non-descript module which could be mixed and matched with some of the themed set.

Great ideas Lightning and hopefully Dragon and CH are listening.
I have most of the Corgi armor and look forward to their new Diorama series which I think is a great idea.
It's too bad the CH dioramas can't be linked together.
I stopped buying the CH exclusives because the exact plane or tank is now usually available in the regular series and the elevated round displays just don't fit with the way I've got things setup.

Themed battle sets is a really cool idea. I would love to see a field repair area with a damaged tank being urgently fixed to get it back to the front lines. Since Dragon is getting into more detailed versions (interior on the Nashorne), they could do a version with the rear engine doors open revealing the engine and a crew working on it.

I doubt it will ever happen, but if it did it would be great.

Hi,
Never say never. I can guarantee you several manufacturers pay very close attention to these forums as a way of gauging public sympathy, trends, interests, etc. I wouldnt be surprised if many of the ideas put forward here and elsewhere arent being closely scrutinized by the manufacturers along with negative sentiment.

I think the field workshop is an excellent idea too. Maybe one connected with Normandy as a means of showcasing Barkmann's Panther or the Bergepanzers used to repair damaged vehicles.

I'd also like to see some of the most recent Giant Armor 1:144 pieces (rail guns, Karl Morsers, armored trains) made available in 1:72 scale. I think they'd sell like hotcakes even if some might be a tad long.

Anyway, just my two lira...

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.bigstep.com

lightning2000 wrote:Hi,
I'd also like to see some of the most recent Giant Armor 1:144 pieces (rail guns, Karl Morsers, armored trains) made available in 1:72 scale. I think they'd sell like hotcakes even if some might be a tad long.

Anyway, just my two lira...

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.bigstep.com

Ditto that, would love to see them in 1/72 as well.

I would also love to see some of the big stuff in 1/72. The mortars should not be too big.

Being a dealer for Dragon I know it is not us dealers that are raising the prices. I know my margins are very small and it takes alot of sales to pay the bills. I hear it all the time that I can get it W-Mart at this price. It kills me because W-mart also sales dog food and ect. People don't realize that I only carry a few lines therfore my cost is more.

lightning2000 wrote:Hi,
There could, of course, be another reason why they're raising the prices beyond the points we've already covered. Its possible, and this is conjecture on my part, that they plan to offer less re-issues of a particular model and again focus on coming out with new product as a means of covering their manufacturing costs. I think that may be part of the problem why you may be seeing product sitting on a shelf for extended periods of time. As an example, how many Jagdtigers does the average collector really want to add to his/her collection (Henschel turret, Porsche turret, zimmerit, non-zimmerit, different formations, special versions, limited versions).

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.bigstep.com

excellent point(s), and in addition, I believe that Dragon/DML have their finger on the collective pulse of Joe Collector, and they're testing the waters so to speak in regards to pricing. I suspect that in addition to the fine points made thus far, they're upping the prices to see if the market will bear such an increase, afterall, if people will pay the high prices, why not keep raising untill they see a drop off in sales? To quote a movie, "If you build it, they will come" and Dragon sees this as "If we raise the prices, people will still pay"

Just a thought.