Plastic or Metal?

Der Kommandant · Post by **Der Kommandant** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:15 pm

Do you prefer plastic vehicles, with more details (like Dragon/21c Marders), or metal vehicles with heft (like...the slightly crude FoV King Tiger)?
Judging by the details of the latest releases in plastic only, I would stick with this category.
What are your opinions/thoughts?

P39time · Post by **P39time** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:23 pm

I much prefer plastic. You just can't mold in the detail in metal like you can plastic. I do alot of model railroading, and the detail you can get in plastic is better than the detail you can get in brass models.

MG-42 · Post by **MG-42** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:21 pm

* I prefer a hybrid so to speak. Plastic & metal. "I like that heft to my models".
All metal would be a fantasy and way too expensive.

Mitch v MG

AlloySkull · Post by **AlloySkull** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:25 pm

Agreed. The whole weight feeling is nice, and so is the cold feel of metal, but in the end it comes down to those fine details. In details there is no comparison between my 21C Marder III and my FOV Tiger I. None. I've taken macro pictures of my Marder in dirt, and with such fine detail it could be real. My Tiger I, not so much. The heft is great, but in the end they're going to be eyeballed much more often than lifted up, and to me that means detail is of greater priority.

Case in point, look at 21C's Fw-190A/F. Look at any diecast 1:32 plane. IMO they don't look right. HM got their SBD right, but there's still a lot of fine details missing that BBI's has. (That means eye candy, not hand-candy, kids) and in the end, you pay more for metal, and it doesn't look (IMO) near as good. This is why I like 21c, BBI and Admiral. They use plastic pre-builts that improve over time, and are affordable.

1/32 is also a beautiful scale. It captures size well, as well as getting lots of details and to me it's close to where you get amazing paint on pre-builts. (It starts at 1/35 IMO)

I built 1/48 as a kid, and they're too small. I look at all these releases in 1/72 and 1/48 in diecast and some of the paint apps/detail is so crude. If it were done in 1/35-1/32-1/18 things would look a world better.

But for some reason the "cute" nature of those ugly diecast planes capture a lot of people, and I don't blame them. They're small, they look OKAY, and there's a lot of subjects out there.

But I will never see any scale range, in my eyes, than 1/35-1/6. Anything smaller is pretty damn small, and I think a lot of potential gets lost in the mix. I've thought about 1/72 because there's so many JETS in that scale. But I can't see myself spending $50 a pop and not feeling satisfied. I mean, $50 got me a TWENTY INCH F-4 Phantom. It's got lots of details those small scales can't handle (especially in diecast) and I'm sorry but that Phantom sealed my fate with 1/32. Some pieces I'll sway to 1/35 with.

But in the end, it's 1/32 or die.

I love 1/18 too, it really gets the point across that, HOLY CRAP, THERE IS A F%&KING PLANE IN THIS ROOM! HOLY CRAP LOOK AT THAT GIANT FRICKIN' PLANE HANGING FROM THAT CEILING! LET ME COLLECT MY JAW FROM THE FLOOR WHILST I GAZE IN ENVY OF YOUR GIANT FRICKIN' PLANE!

1/32 has advantage of numbers and size. As in, HOLY HELL, I THINK IT'S WWII ALL OVER AGAIN! LOOK AT ALL THESE MOTHERFRICKIN' PLANES, I MEAN, THERE HAVEN'T BEEN SO MANY PROP PLANES IN ONE PLACE SINCE! LET ME COLLECT MY JAW WHILST YOU TEACH ME ALL ABOUT THEM! IS THAT A PHANTOM? I THINK I NEED SOME NEW PANTS, PARDON THE SMELL!

My opinion has been stated, and I really feel like I went overboard...

So yes, PLASTIC. I need to catch my fingers...

(I hope someone gets that)

Panzer_M · Post by **Panzer_M** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:32 pm

plastic, better details..details that are crisp and pop. Like DML's 1/35 Zimm pattern vs FOV's Zimm.

if you want weight..put weight/heft inside the model.

really unless your playing with these like a kid with a tonka, heft really isn't a factor in the final product IMO,

Rowsdower · Post by **Rowsdower** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:40 pm

Plastic, basically for all the reasons given above. FOV seems to be using a lot more plastic in their new models, which is why I was kinda cheesed that the price is just as high as their older, higher metal content offerings. I say get rid of all the metal and bring the price down. Look at the latest 32x tanks, all plastic and highly detailed. I'm thinking FOV could do even better with plastic sold at action series prices.

If you need "heft" you can buy weights from any hobby shop that sells trains.

Der Kommandant · Post by **Der Kommandant** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:44 pm

"1/32 or die."
Too true, too true

.
1/18, for me at least, is less than desirable because of the crudeness. Consider the XD Tiger that I barely touched: mass expanses of white paint with zero details on it, and look at the FoV Tiger in 1/32: all the details contract to allow you to see the whole picture, forms everything in proportion.
1/18 dilutes that, because the critical details are spread out, leaving a thin front of points of interests.
I'll like to trade said Tiger away couple of months from now...
Consider also: the new, awesome 21c stuff (they really are awesome) comes in micro-size; the 38t looks like a scooter next to the Muni with an Elefant. Therefore the all-plastic vehicles concentrate lots of details in a very small amount of area. The pieces that must be truly appreciated are those that incorporate all such details into a much wider expanse; I think the new Elefant is my case in point here: great details and functions throughout the vehicle, despite the tempered weathering and somewhat crude Zimmerit.
1/32 or death!!!!

(1/18 does have a point though; everyone notices said Tiger before they see my Marder)

Rowsdower · Post by **Rowsdower** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:54 pm

I used to build 1:35 armor but had to stop because of tremors in my hands which prevent me from doing fine work. So I was pretty pleased when I first came across 1:32 in 2007. I got a late start and missed a lot of the earlier stuff but it is great to be able to have realistic tanks, aircraft and vehicles once again. And in a bigger scale to boot!

MG-42 · Post by **MG-42** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:58 pm

* Duh ,.. don't you really think I don't know that ?

......... try cracking open a fine plastic model & putting a weight in there. I have done this but some how not really the same.

........... I really like the plastic ones too , ya' know. *

Mitch v MG

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:19 pm

You for got to add wood.

AlloySkull · Post by **AlloySkull** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:33 pm

Oh god. Wood is great 1/6 up.

Panzer_M · Post by **Panzer_M** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:26 pm

MG-42 wrote:* Duh ,.. don't you really think I don't know that ?

......... try cracking open a fine plastic model & putting a weight in there. I have done this but some how not really the same.

........... I really like the plastic ones too , ya' know. *

Mitch v MG

I was saying weight is really Moot, cause 90% of models do not have working suspension that would show the weight of the vehicles on them. the one Model I have which could show such a effect, Tasca's Pz II L could show this with it's full working suspension(Haven't built it yet, after I cracked it open I was kinda shocked from going from Tamiya/Dragon pretty basic built to this, and I'm worried about breaking parts or miss drilling some tiny hole or not having a word of English in the instructions). the suspension is also very fragile due to the amount of detail(Like having full torsion bars that run across the hull to start)..It's a awesome kit, and a amazing finished build, but it would go into a case vs on the desk or shelf to limit manhandling/breakage. Esp now since the kit was 54.00(I got mine with a crushed box for 30$ on Missing Lynx) when made, and now they are out of production on some of the Luch varients IIRC, my late model Normandy is OOP, and the ebay prices are going up..So replacement is going to get harder and more expensive.

Metal vs Plastic in 32x is kinda like Resin vs Injection in 1/35..both have their points and both have cons(price, ease of build, quality of parts, fine details)..I just got my first resin gun kit this summer, a Traks 7.5cm le IG 18..and it has more parts and etch and soo much flash on the parts..I'm not sure how to start on it(also no step by step instructions just a exploded view of the gun). I also got my first white metal kit this summer, and it was a pain to clean the burrs and metal is soft, so it bends easily which is good and bad depending on where the bend is, and details can be real sharp in white I noticed like on Tracks(like Fruilmodel's) but lacking alot on figures which just seem dull compared to resin or plastic)

Dauntless · Post by **Dauntless** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:28 am

I like the combination of both. Some of the Cold Steel 21st are excellent. I recently pulled an extra 32X Opel Halftrack out of it's package and I am amazed at the detail for the price, and suprised how much metal is used on the cab, including the doors, fenders and hood top as well as the cab.
You really can't tell which is plastic and which metal as both are highly detailed, except for the cold touch of the metal.

demonclaw · Post by **demonclaw** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:44 am

You can make a detailed model with both plastic and metal but its easier with plastic and less expensive , its up to the manufacturer how much money and work they wanna spend on a model . Unimax have proven that you can make detailed metal models that looks as good or better than any other model in most cases so saying that plastic models are more detailed is just not true but . There is however a big difference between 21st Century's metal and plastic models so cheaper lines certainly benefits from using plastic

Unimax vs Dragon

21stC plastic vs coldsteel

Source : Mike tanks

demonclaw · Post by **demonclaw** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:03 am

sorry double post

Col.Pickle · Post by **Col.Pickle** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:04 am

MG-42 wrote:* I prefer a hybrid so to speak. Plastic & metal. "I like that heft to my models".
All metal would be a fantasy and way too expensive.

Mitch v MG

Agreed! I hate vehicles that you could blow over...

lightning2000 · Post by **lightning2000** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:20 am

Hi,
I'm with the esteemed Colonel Pickle. I prefer metal over plastic, then a hybrid over plastic. If I wanted plastic, I'd build a model (of course, I haven't done that in a milennia. No time, never was any good at it, poor eyesight, etc.)

Anyway, with the drop in oil prices, there could very well be a rennaissance in the use of diecast metal. Not sure if zinc has come down in prices of late, but the labor pool in China has certainly expanded due to many factory closings.

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.net

MG-42 · Post by **MG-42** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:43 am

* I don't quite understand your statement "Lightning" ......
That's pretty much the same answer , then you would be agreeing w/ both of us.

Mitch v MG

Col.Pickle · Post by **Col.Pickle** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:58 pm

MG-42 wrote:* I don't quite understand your statement "Lightning" ......
That's pretty much the same answer , then you would be agreeing w/ both of us.

Mitch v MG

yup, it's us three

lightning2000 · Post by **lightning2000** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:16 pm

Hello Mitch,
My first preference is an all-metal replica such as the type produced by Solido, Corgi or Minichamps. My second would be a hybrid of part metal and part plastic such as older FOV models, Hobby Master, etc. Last would be an all plastic replica, such as Easy Model. Just a personal preference and has nothing to do with the manufacturer, their product range's etc.

I like heft, even if I'll probably pick up the item once or twice in its lifetime. An all plastic vehicle, no matter how detailed it is, just doesnt do it for me. The original lure of this part of the hobby was that you get a pre-assembled replica made mostly of metal. Since that time, the hobby has gone off on divergent trajectories, with some companies sticking with that philosophy and others trying different techniques.

Some people like spagehetti with marinara, some like meat sauce, and others enjoy meatballs. Count me in the last category...

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.net

Der Kommandant · Post by **Der Kommandant** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:24 pm

Lightning, what's your opinion on the Elefant?

lightning2000 · Post by **lightning2000** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:39 pm

Hi,
I rarely take an item out of the box, particularly the FOV range, cause they're so difficult to put 'em back in the box to sell. The detail is good, although there seems to be little to no metal content. Not sure if that's a deal breaker since some people dont mind having a lighter vehicle.

I was surprised to see no figures included with the vehicle. I think this is their first vehicle not to come bundled with at least one figure. Strange, seeing as how its their first issue Elefant, which seems to dilute its appeal somewhat.

On a scale of five stars (thats how our web site rating works), I'd give it a four. Honestly, a bit pricey for what you get, vis a vis one of their latest King Tigers, which comes with four figures and retails for the same price point. Hope that helps...

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.net

Rowsdower · Post by **Rowsdower** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:44 pm

lightning2000 wrote:An all plastic vehicle, no matter how detailed it is, just doesnt do it for me.

Wow, never would have expected that from a purveyor of fine diecast collectibles!

olifant · Post by **olifant** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:07 pm

I don't find myself particularly picky, especially these days. If I get new releases I don't care what they are made from. That being said, I do miss the days of Cold Steel. One of our esteemed board members sold me the 21C M-113 I missed out on a few months ago and it felt good to be surprised at the weight and cool touch.

Der Kommandant · Post by **Der Kommandant** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:22 pm

With FoV's newest releases in plastic, there might very well be an absence in metal-heavy 1/32 vehicles.
Maybe if Corgi turned to 1/32...?

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