The best of the best (IMO)

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:42 am

Hanomag wrote:There were two in fact.

The M22 Locust was built by the US for the British, but I'm not sure if it saw combat.

The other was the Light Tank Mk VII or "Tetrarch". and could fit in a modified glider to support the airborne troops.

As you can imagine neither should show up on this list.

Now that I think of it, There were a couple Italian tanks that I bet could be flown. Though I know not why you'd want to.-H

I wouldn't include tanks that were simply small enough to be put on an aircraft that was large enough to carry them.

Did either the Locust or Tetrarch actualls serve as air-transported tanks in the war?

Certainly the C-47 was not designed to carry either of those, regardless.

AMERICAN_GRENADIER · Post by **AMERICAN_GRENADIER** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:07 am

ltcbj wrote:
AMERICAN_GRENADIER wrote: agreed! but the tank was better suited for Russian terrain than the German Panzers. but point taken
The early German tanks, through the PzIV, had narrow tracks which really only worked where the ground tended to stay relatively hard. The Tiger had nice wide tracks but too much tank (weight). The Panther's combination of weight and track width gave it pretty near the same performance as the T-34 and it was superior to the Sherman.

agreed! but the germans developed the Panther based on many of the inovations of the T-34. Lets face it one on one german tanks had a great advantage over allied armor. but the early inovations of the T-34 were fantastic compared to German designs. wide tracks slopped armor and most importantely easy production and repair. german designs were always over engineered. a simple design would have been a better choice in the great armor battles of WWII.

AMERICAN_GRENADIER · Post by **AMERICAN_GRENADIER** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:09 am

ltcbj wrote:
Hanomag wrote:There were two in fact.

The M22 Locust was built by the US for the British, but I'm not sure if it saw combat.

The other was the Light Tank Mk VII or "Tetrarch". and could fit in a modified glider to support the airborne troops.

As you can imagine neither should show up on this list.

Now that I think of it, There were a couple Italian tanks that I bet could be flown. Though I know not why you'd want to.-H
I wouldn't include tanks that were simply small enough to be put on an aircraft that was large enough to carry them.

Did either the Locust or Tetrarch actualls serve as air-transported tanks in the war?

Certainly the C-47 was not designed to carry either of those, regardless.

the germans transported Panzer I & II's and the 38(t) on many ocassions with the ME323.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_323

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:00 am

In regard to the Panther v T-34 controversy I would agree that The Panther was both slightly based on the T-34 (it was proposed that the new German tank be in fact a copy) but it was in fact a quite superior weapon.

It provided more room for the crew, relieving battle fatigue somewhat, had a crew of 5 rather than 4, a far superior main gun, better armor and near equal speed with ground pressure ~equal to the T-34/85 and of c ourse, the radio.

AMERICAN_GRENADIER · Post by **AMERICAN_GRENADIER** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:59 am

for sure no controvery here, i agree with you. i was looking at it from the prospective of a game changer. they could build 25 T-34's to one panther and 50 T-34's to one tiger. it was only a matter of time the German's couldnt keep up. the Panther broke the mold thats for sure. at the time a tank of modern armies. The french used the panther into the late 50's

DomiUK · Post by **DomiUK** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:17 am

You can not fairly compare a t34 to a Panther the panther was a much heavier tank and hit the battlefield nearly 3 years after the T34 and in war time that is ages that it was superior is hardly surprising.

Oh and 20 tetrarch tanks were succesfully landed in Normandy by Glider to help the airborne assault, they were a bit shit but when fighting with small arms any tank on your side has got be some use

.

I will also agree that the C-47 is a contender for best aircraft.

Dauntless · Post by **Dauntless** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:59 am

Why was the T-34 so successful?

Good old American ingenuity and design rejected by the by the US Army and sold to the Russians

http://www.powmadeak47.com/tanky/christie.html

I don't agree with some of the political overtones of that article, but there's some interesting facts and pics nonetheless.

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:06 pm

Yes. All based on the Christy suspension.

Dauntless · Post by **Dauntless** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:09 pm

I would have to agree, the C-47 was probably the most important plane, but...

Then again there's a lot of subcategories and other planes in the running.

The Hellcat shot down more planes of the enemy than anything else.

The Hurricane shot down more enemy aircraft than the Spitfire.

The Mustang was the first to escort Bombers there and back.

The Me-262 was the first operational Jet.

The Dauntless sank 4 carriers in one
battle.

I'll bet there are a lot more C-47's still flying than any other WWII plane though.

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:21 pm

The Corsair had the highest kill to loss ratio.

snake · Post by **snake** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:36 pm

Big difference between the best and the most influential.
The best plane.Me262.the first jet fighter,and 100mph faster than anything the allies had.The most influential,Spitfire.Turned back the Luftwaffe during the battle of Britain,and was produced throughout the war.
Best tank.Panther.Perfect balance of armour,firepower,and speed.Most influential T-34.Good tank produced in huge numbers.
MG34/42 as both the best and most influential.

ketelone · Post by **ketelone** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:15 pm

Plane: P51
Tank: Sherman and T34. Production of both tanks overwhelmed the Germans. The Germans couldn't contend with the massive numbers.
Weapon: M1

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:09 pm

I would say for weapon: The a-bomb. Wasn't man portable then but it is now.

AMERICAN_GRENADIER · Post by **AMERICAN_GRENADIER** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:15 pm

ltcbj wrote:I would say for weapon: The a-bomb. Wasn't man portable then but it is now.

got to like that one!

Hanomag · Post by **Hanomag** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:23 pm

Indeed the A-Bomb was rather influential. Which brings the point that the B-29 was the best bomber.....but I digress.

Oh and 20 tetrarch tanks were succesfully landed in Normandy by Glider to help the airborne assault, they were a bit ---- but when fighting with small arms any tank on your side has got be some use Smile.

I read an article about that one time. All I remember was that one tank fell through the floor of the glider in flight. Not a good way to go. They also crossed the Rhine. Osprey just put out a book on those tanks.

-H

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:22 am

Hanomag wrote:
I read an article about that one time. All I remember was that one tank fell through the floor of the glider in flight. Not a good way to go. They also crossed the Rhine. Osprey just put out a book on those tanks.

-H

I hope that the crew wasn't in it. What a way to go if they were.

War.

ketelone · Post by **ketelone** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:57 am

For weapon, let's not forget "intelligence" and disinformation In the ETO and PTO the cracking of codes and overall the Allies ability to fool the enemy (Germany especially) with fake invasion locations: Norway, Calais, etc. Prior to D-Day the Allies had fake radio traffic for fake armies,etc. It worked. In 1944 the Germans deployed over 200,000 men and significant armor to Norway. Calais was also heavily fortified. Also, let's not forget the advantages American forces had in the Pacific... Midway, shooting down Japanese generals with P38s,etc.

ketelone · Post by **ketelone** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:59 am

For weapon, let's not forget "intelligence" and disinformation In the ETO and PTO the cracking of codes and overall the Allies ability to fool the enemy (Germany especially) with fake invasion locations: Norway, Calais, etc. Prior to D-Day the Allies had fake radio traffic for fake armies,etc. It worked. In 1944 the Germans deployed over 200,000 men and significant armor to Norway. Calais was also heavily fortified. Also, let's not forget the advantages American forces had in the Pacific... Midway, shooting down Japanese generals with P38s,etc.

ketelone · Post by **ketelone** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:00 am

Sorry, itchy finger.

PanzerArm · Post by **PanzerArm** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:09 am

GooglyDoogly wrote:C-47s can transport a Sherman?

He did not say aircraft could carry a tank, there is a comma there between clauses. He was simply saying that like the sherman, the c-47 served in all theatres.

And I cannot speak for the tetrarch, but I know that the M22 Locust was used in Monty's Rhine crossing. I have no specifics on it's use there but it make an appearance in the ETO before war's end.

-Kevin

Panzer_M · Post by **Panzer_M** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:25 pm

The Me323 gigant could airlift up to Pz II/Marder IIs I can confirm by photos, and 8.8cm FlaK 18/36/37s, and IIRC I remember a Opel embarked in one.

Junkers Ju/52 could do Panzer motors(up to Pz III/IV sized) without issue.

PanzerArm · Post by **PanzerArm** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:04 pm

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:17 pm

Cool!

Thanks for the pic. That certainly looks like they are loading a Marder. Great proof.

Although I do have to say that being able to air transport something does not mean it is necessarily designed to be so.

I would guess that the Germans were in the middle of trying to figure out how to fight a war with inadequate industrial and raw material reserves and this is another example of their simply trying anything in a pinch.

tkjaer21 · Post by **tkjaer21** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:40 pm

a)The best aircraft of the Second World War

The P-47 Thunderbolt (The Juggernaut/Jug). It had both durability and firepower to take out any plane in the sky. Especially head-on.

b) The best all round tank of WWII

The German Tiger II (Königstiger). It had the Fire Power and tonnes of armor.

c) The best small arms weapon of WWII

The Maschinengewehr 42 (MG42). It was abusive and defended a small unit very well. It is still being used today.

Col.Pickle · Post by **Col.Pickle** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:16 pm

tkjaer21 wrote:a)The best aircraft of the Second World War

The P-47 Thunderbolt (The Juggernaut/Jug). It had both durability and firepower to take out any plane in the sky. Especially head-on.

b) The best all round tank of WWII

The German Tiger II (Königstiger). It had the Fire Power and tonnes of armor.

Even with it's long construction time, expense, slooooowww speed, you still think the King Tiger is the best?

Small Scale Military Headquarters

The best of the best (IMO)

Gigant

Re: The best of the best (IMO)

Re: The best of the best (IMO)