"Last Panther", Berlin Defense, April 1945

[Sgt. Stryker]

Does anyone know the REAL paint scheme these PZ V tanks?
Minichamps 1:35 has two versions: a forest green and a panzer grey with brown stripes.
Dragon 1:72 has an intricate tri-color camo pattern, and Dragon 1:144 has a forest green.
Is it too difficult to find a B&W photo taken during the defense preparations, then colorize it using computer software?
I think the last Panther would have been simply a base of red metal primer without any paint applied.
And the Panther F in combat is pure fantasy.
STRYKER

[aferguson]

Not so simple at all. Coloringzing b/w pictures is only an approximation based on the colorizer's best guesses. Even color footage from the time can be very misleading depending on lighting, the type of film, how the film is developed, age etc. Greys can look green, greens grey or blue etc.

Late, late war panzer colors have been much debated. For a long time it was felt that many later war panzers were painted panzer grey, using up old stocks left over from before the three color change over in '43. However this has changed in the last few years to the belief that what was thought to be dark grey was actually dark green. To my knowledge there still is no definitive decision on this but dark green is the favoured choice.

Also, remember the 'last Panther' does not necessarily mean right off the assembly line.....could be an older vehicle that has survived combat and would be painted in any of the zillion variations of three color scheme.

So red primer would not be my first choice for a 'last Panther'....especially since it would stand out like a sore thumb in urban combat and would probably have been camo'ed with whatever the crew could scrounge up. Being in Berlin, there would be lots of paint stocks handy.

If i were to guess i would go with overall dark green, which is a plausible choice and would hide well in the shadows of urban structures.

[Hoverbug]

I noticed the E-100 is being marketed as "Bradenburg Gate, 1945"

Does anyone know the REAL paint scheme these PZ V tanks?
Minichamps 1:35 has two versions: a forest green and a panzer grey with brown stripes.
Dragon 1:72 has an intricate tri-color camo pattern, and Dragon 1:144 has a forest green.
Is it too difficult to find a B&W photo taken during the defense preparations, then colorize it using computer software?
I think the last Panther would have been simply a base of red metal primer without any paint applied.
And the Panther F in combat is pure fantasy.
STRYKER

[lightning2000]

Hello All,
I agree with AFerguson on all of his aformentioned comments. Another point needs to be mentioned however. Berlin fell in April/May 1945. I'm certain there were straggler panzer formations that were forced to fall back into the city from all over Germany as the call went out to defend the capital. So, just because a tank wouldn't look right in an urban battlefield doesnt necessarily mean its the last tank to see action.

For instance, look at how many US formations participated in Operation Iraqi Freedom still bearing tri-color camouflage instead of the more appropriate desert sand or how many T-34s saw action at Stalingrad still wearing their base primer and nothing more. At this point in the war, it was more important to get those weapons into battle than it was to paint them up in the "correct" schemes.

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.bigstep.com

[Sgt. Stryker]

In terms of the "leftover" Panzer Grey paint, wouldn't any surviving stocks (i.e cans or drums) from 1942 production be unsuitable for application by 1945?
24+ months is a long time to let paint settle, especially for 1940's technology.
I am very disappointed in the paint scheme of the new Minichamps 1:35 "Last Panther". It looks just like the scheme for the inaccurate 1943 "Das Reich Tiger".
For a German outfit based in Aachen, "Paul & Co." need to do spend the time and effort to research their products thoroughly.
I was reading the text on the box of my 1:35 BOB King Tiger, and was surprised to see the words "...luckily the King Tiger had no effect on the outcome of the war...". Heinrich Ritter would roll over in his grave if he read that, since any crew member in a Tiger II would be trying to WIN the war!

[tmanthegreat]

I was reading the text on the box of my 1:35 BOB King Tiger, and was surprised to see the words "...luckily the King Tiger had no effect on the outcome of the war...". Heinrich Ritter would roll over in his grave if he read that, since any crew member in a Tiger II would be trying to WIN the war!

Conversely, I've read text on models other made by German companies that said made use of the words "unfortunantly" or "questionably" when describing why a particular German vehicle or aircraft wasn't effective or not produced.

[hworth18]

Does anyone know the REAL paint scheme these PZ V tanks?
Minichamps 1:35 has two versions: a forest green and a panzer grey with brown stripes.
Dragon 1:72 has an intricate tri-color camo pattern, and Dragon 1:144 has a forest green.
Is it too difficult to find a B&W photo taken during the defense preparations, then colorize it using computer software?
I think the last Panther would have been simply a base of red metal primer without any paint applied.
And the Panther F in combat is pure fantasy.
STRYKER

Typically, Late war Panzers, Panthers, TigerIIs most notably, were often sent to the front with the base coat of primer Oxide Red, Dark Green, or Dark Yellow and often painted in the field with whatever the crews had on hand.. Many Panthers were sent out with just Dark Green paint, while many King Tigers (Tiger IIs) were sent out with Red Oxide paint...
IMHO, The Panzer Gray Panther is totally incorrect, similar to the Panzer Gray Tiger I. It is a proven fact that Panzer Gray was ceased being used by the Germans in 1943..

The Panther F, is pure fantasy in the fact that it never got past the prototype stage..

[Sgt. Stryker]

Many Panthers were sent out with just Dark Green paint, while many King Tigers (Tiger IIs) were sent out with Red Oxide paint...

Wouldn't the Panthers that were needed ASAP also be sent with Red Oxide Primer? The Dark Green and Dark Yellow Paint would require an additional several days of application and drying.
I think the 3rd Series Minichamps 1:35 Panther is closer to what you'd find in Berlin at the end of the war. The "Last Panther" probally had unique markings painted/scrawled over the Red Oxide Primer (i.e Thor's Hammer emblem).
BTW, I've once seen a photo of the real 3rd Series Panther. Can anyone find a URL to this B&W image?

[lightning2000]

I do believe Minichamps is doing its research when it comes to the color schemes on some of the latest vehicles. The problem is that the schemes may not be as palatable as say a standard winterized machination or Norman camouflage pattern we've all come to expect from manufacturers these days. For some reason, they're also choosing vehicles with little in the way of insignia, possibly because of their Germanic heritage, so the end result is that the vehicles look rather bland.

We've often recommended that they use some of the custom vehicles we have on our site for inspiration when creating their next incarnations. For whatever reason, they seem to be choosing some rather arcane schemes to stand out from the pack. Go figure...

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.bigstep.com

[Mr. Football]

I was watching the Military Channel the other day and they had film footage of the King Tiger "222" that Minichamps modelled. It was dead on.

[hworth18]

I was watching the Military Channel the other day and they had film footage of the King Tiger "222" that Minichamps modelled. It was dead on.

And that's about the only one lately...