IMO what we need in 1/18th aircraft.

Spudkopf · Post by **Spudkopf** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:53 pm

Purely in my lowly opinion.....

Now I know there are so many missing modern jets, WWII’s fighters and heavy fighters, medium bombers and indeed even heavy bombers not to mention all the fighters and bombers from WWI, but what I truly believe is missing from the 1/18th scale world of fixed winged aircraft, are those hero’s of the front lines the Observation, Liaison, AOP, FAC, etc aircraft. These Observation aircraft have been an integral part of military aviation history from the start so much so that the world’s army’s first use of the aeroplane was for this type of role.

So please give me one of these.....

Once we have an O-1 Birddog here are some others in no particular order:

Fi-156 Storch
Auster AOP (1 through 9)
Fw-189
O-2 Skymaster
L-4 Grasshopper
OV-10 Bronco
L-5 Sentinel
OV-1 Mohawk
He 126
Pe-2
Cessna 180D/E
Ar-156

Now I’m sure that there are many, many others that I have missed including the previously mentioned numerous types from WWI, but this is just to give you an idea of the scope that exists for this aircraft type and the fact that models of such aircraft would use less plastic to make, have smaller boxes and once unpacked take up less shelf space to display and look really at home displayed amongst armour (well just above at least) makes them an ideal addition to our hobby.

Next…..
All the missing Strike/Attack aircraft and then maybe some Transports.

Quixote511 · Post by **Quixote511** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:18 pm

Also, to add to the list of forgotten roles, a nice trainer. I am thinking a Texan/Harvard would suit me just fine.

B24guy · Post by **B24guy** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:10 pm

I am a big fan of the T-6 Texan. I got a ride in one a couple of years ago. What fun that was! And think of all the repaints. What a historic aircraft, I would love a 1:18th scale model of one.

Jolly Roger · Post by **Jolly Roger** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:49 pm

im still waiting for ground crews, and or loading oridance carrier trucks.
Aircraft mover

like this but in yellow, so you can tow all your modern jets on the runway.

or just make a Osprey to move the marines around in.

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:09 pm

Hey Spud,
I would much rather have a Japanese or Rusky before an observation plane. The Bird dog is cool and all but give me a Val or Tony AND, or Stumovic or Mig 3 and life will be good again.

I am having to catch my breath from the flood storm that we were hit with. Now just think what would have happened if those planes were in that Tsunami.

Panther F · Post by **Panther F** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:14 pm

Wasn't it the Birddog in the opening of the film "Battle of the Bulge"? If so, it get's my vote for obscure aircraft. That and the C-47 too with D Day invasion stripes.

BTW, I had a ride in the Goodyear blimp back in 1973. Can you imagine a 1:18 blimp hanging in your den?

Jeff

Studly · Post by **Studly** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:02 pm

Hey Spud how about some of these

T28 trojan
Tempest V
Seafury
A-20 Havoc
CAC Boomerang
Fairy Firefly
Hawker Hurricane
gloster Gladiator
P40N
Dehavlin sea Hornet
MC 202 & 205
Boulton Paul Defiant
KI84 frank
KI43 Oscar
KI61 Tony
DH Chipmunk
gruman Bearcat
Mirrarge III
DH VampireVultee Vengance

Nice to dream

olifant · Post by **olifant** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:22 pm

I like the OV-10 idea. What a great addition to the upcoming F-4 and Spad. Can we say FAC?

mrkisskissbangbang · Post by **mrkisskissbangbang** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:38 pm

I agree that it would be great to have a nice little collection of aircraft other than combat aircraft.

I'd like to add the following to the list:

Westand Lysander
Beech Expeditor
Noorduyn C-64 Norseman
de Havilland D.H. 89 Dragon Rapide

The other thing about some of these aircraft and the others listed....is that they can be converted to civilian use. Especially the Expeditor, Norseman and Dragon Rapide. As can the C-47.

Cheers

chunks · Post by **chunks** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:53 pm

Oooh, ahhh, Repide, yesss.

Spudkopf · Post by **Spudkopf** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:23 pm

G'day All

As I said to start with there are many missing fighter, bomber and attack aircraft types that deserved to be made and I agree that the lack of Japanese, Russian and indeed Commonwealth types is a major shortcoming of this scale, but what I was trying to point out is that specifically Liaison aircraft such as those I mentioned above along with Transports and indeed Trainers (thanks Quixote511, especially as these trainers often get employed in the Liaison role as well, like the T-28 Trojan for example) play an equal role in the outcome of any conflict, but are usually bypassed for those more popular thoroughbreds of the skies.

Unfortunately I seem to be alone in my desires and I am sure that most if given the choice would select a Tony before a Storch or an F15 over an OV-10! (except for olifant and me that is)

I just thought I’d chime in here for that silent minority who like the idea of 6 cylinders over 12 and a cruise speed of nearer 90 knots instead of 400 plus. However the Skyraider from AT and the Starfighter from 21stCT are models that do defy the norm and give some hope although minor that maybe these Liaison birds will grace our collections one day.

I am in no way anti- fighter, bomber or attack aircraft and love those that we already have, in fact another unfortunate side affect in this scale is the much mentioned tag of duplication that prevents manufactures from making other missing aircraft, such as later, earlier or sub types of existing aircraft, we are in great need of a later variant of the Zero, Stuka, Spitfire and P-40 and an earlier version of the P-51 and the more numerous Fw-190 A, F and G types of the Butcher-bird, but the cries of duplication may keep these birds hangered for many years to come.

Studly wrote:Hey Spud how about some of these

T28 trojan
Tempest V
Seafury
A-20 Havoc
CAC Boomerang
Fairy Firefly
Hawker Hurricane
gloster Gladiator
P40N
Dehavlin sea Hornet
MC 202 & 205
Boulton Paul Defiant
KI84 frank
KI43 Oscar
KI61 Tony
DH Chipmunk
gruman Bearcat
Mirrarge III
DH VampireVultee Vengance

Nice to dream

Studly
Although there are several aircraft among those you have listed that I would also like to see, to be honest some have very little if any chance of ever being made, the CAC Boomerang for example would have very little appeal beyond our own shores and it has been pointed out here that the Mirage III is not that popular. As for the Boulton Paul Defiant well IMO I think a De Havilland Hurricane is historically more deserving. In in the end it is the influence of the greater general public and Hollywoods historic distortions that will determine what we see and most those on both of our lists fail here.

Did someone mention Hollywood, oh I think it was me, I’m pretty certain that if a F-5 was ever to surface that there would be a Top Gun repaint high up on the S list.

Panther F wrote:Wasn't it the Birddog in the opening of the film "Battle of the Bulge"? If so, it get's my vote for obscure aircraft. That and the C-47 too with D Day invasion stripes.

BTW, I had a ride in the Goodyear blimp back in 1973. Can you imagine a 1:18 blimp hanging in your den?

Jeff

Panther F
As you may gather from my Hollywood spat above this film does not fall into the category of one of my favourites (don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story), but if it was a Birddog then this is very wrong, a L-4 Grasshopper or L-5 Sentinel being more appropriate and please don’t get me started on those Tiger stand-ins

I’ll get off my soap box now and go hide in a corner somewhere and sulk.

MightyMustang · Post by **MightyMustang** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:39 pm

I like your ideas but I think we need and F-14 Tomcat in 1/18th.

mrkisskissbangbang · Post by **mrkisskissbangbang** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:02 pm

Greetings Spudkopf,

I read your original post and understood it for what the intent was. That was a great idea and I'll have to say that I only collect WW2 aircraft. I would get a Fi Storch, Lysander, or Grasshopper before I would get a jet. (Mind you, I do have 3 jets in my collection that are staying in their boxes for investment purposes. I will get the Phantom II when it comes out. For sentimental reasons) But beyond that, not intertested in Hornets, Eagles, Falcons or Tomcats for collecting.

Crickeys I may have even posted wanting a Storch and Grasshopper in the past!

Cheers

Spudkopf · Post by **Spudkopf** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:01 am

G'day mrkisskissbangbang

I totally forgot about the venerable old Lysander, shame on me, while we are at it the classic Hs-126 should also be added to my list as should the extraordinary BV-141.

I must say that I have always had a soft spot for fixed gear aircraft (not something you often see on a jet by the way

) for me there is just something about an aircraft that basically looks the same in the air as it does on the ground that I find cool, this is why I also like the Stuka so much not to mention flying boats which are sadly yet another forgotten species of aeroplane in our scale.

In as far as flying machines go I guess deep down I love them all even if they stem from a time period that I have little interest in (as exether_mega well knows I can be easily turned), I just hate to see any one type get a greater preference over another.

But just one of the many Liaison aircraft from history is not too much to ask is it?

popeye357 · Post by **popeye357** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:18 pm

Id like a MASH helo and a Comanche

bdr_ws6 · Post by **bdr_ws6** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:02 am

I'd buy a T-6/SNJ, L-4, O-1, and maybe even an O-2.

Most defiently get the T-6 though.. love those planes.

Spudkopf · Post by **Spudkopf** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:30 am

popeye357 wrote:Id like a MASH helo and a Comanche

I'm quite surprised that a Bell 47 has never been made, The Australian and Maybe even the New Zealand army even used the Sioux in Vietnam and if there was one available I'd soon have in repainted in ADF markings.

In regards to the Comanche, I am sure there would be a huge market for civilian types if one of the manufactures was to take the plunge, but I'm not sure if I'd go for a purely civi type, except I do like the Cessna 208 Caravan for it’s utility looks.

bdr_ws6 wrote:I'd buy a T-6/SNJ, L-4, O-1, and maybe even an O-2.

Most definitely get the T-6 though.. love those planes.

The Oscar Deuce is a cool plane, it is not well known that during the Vietnam war RAAF fighter pilots rotated FACs flying for the USAF in this aircraft and also in the O-1 and the OV-10, look for the book "Hit My Smoke - Targeting the enemy in Vietnam" (sadly currently out of print) if you would like to know more.

While I'm at it you better also add the DHC-2 Beaver and the Pilatus PC-6 Turbo-Porter (one of my all time favourites how could I miss it) to my Liaison aircraft list.

I'm glad to see that there is a little bit of support growing for my quest.

wreckchaser · Post by **wreckchaser** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:23 am

I'm with you Spud

I had brought this up in a post awhile back.IMHO any of the birds on your list would be cool. Another one that I like is the
T-37/A-37. My two top choices would be the O-1 and OV-10.

Spudkopf · Post by **Spudkopf** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:21 am

G'day WC

The Dragonfly has a certain something about it, for such a small bird the A-37 can carry a surprisingly large amount of ordinance. There are at least two civil registered A-37s flying the show circuit in Oz in VNAF colours and this pair make quite a site (not to mention sound) when rolling in and doing mock attack runs at air shows.

You are right that it does deserve to be listed here as I do believe some were used in the FAC role, but this bird for me sits more comfortably in another of my missing "I want categories" that being attack aircraft, which to date has been mostly ignored, apart from AT's up and coming Able Dog and the supposedly un-marketable A-10 prototype there is nothing else to look forward to.

In reality attack aircraft like the A-26, Hs-129, Il-2, Ju-87G, Bf-110G, Ju-88C, Il-10, B-25G/H, Bristol Beaufighter, A20C/G, DH Mosquito Mk VI, AP-2H Neptune and the A-37 just to name but a few all probably stand a better chance of one day being made than any of the Liaison types on my list.

The Dragonfly itself would make some economic sense in that both the box size and display space would be relatively small, although sadly it’s relative obscurity would tend to lead to a snow ball’s chance................

To be perfectly honest I look forward to seeing any aircraft be it Liaison, Fighter, Bomber, Transport, Helicopter, Spec-Op, Recognisance or even Experimental for that matter an X ships like the X-15 would be way cool, man in my plastic starved half of the world I be happy to get anything! but just simply give us some more diversity.

..... I was going to rant on for some more Armour as well but FOV already seem to have also noticed this void and look to be taking some action so I'll hold off for now.

Panther F · Post by **Panther F** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:02 am

Spudkopf wrote:
Panther F
As you may gather from my Hollywood spat above this film does not fall into the category of one of my favourites (don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story), but if it was a Birddog then this is very wrong, a L-4 Grasshopper or L-5 Sentinel being more appropriate and please don’t get me started on those Tiger stand-ins

I’ll get off my soap box now and go hide in a corner somewhere and sulk.

As far as those "Tiger stand ins", I think of that as no more than an actor playing a part in the movie. They couldn't get the real deal so someone is acting out the part. Same thing with the M47 Pattons as Tiger tanks. I realize they couldn't get that many operational Tigers to do the movie, so they got a few M47's to play the part.

Use you imagination my friend!

Jeff

Spudkopf · Post by **Spudkopf** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:14 pm

Panther F wrote:
Spudkopf wrote:
Panther F
As you may gather from my Hollywood spat above this film does not fall into the category of one of my favourites (don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story), but if it was a Birddog then this is very wrong, a L-4 Grasshopper or L-5 Sentinel being more appropriate and please don’t get me started on those Tiger stand-ins

I’ll get off my soap box now and go hide in a corner somewhere and sulk.
As far as those "Tiger stand ins", I think of that as no more than an actor playing a part in the movie. They couldn't get the real deal so someone is acting out the part. Same thing with the M47 Pattons as Tiger tanks. I realize they couldn't get that many operational Tigers to do the movie, so they got a few M47's to play the part.

Use you imagination my friend!

Jeff

G’day Jeff

My imagination works pretty good, but unfortunately the script writers seemed to have used far too much of theirs

I grew up on a healthy diet of war movies from the 50's, 60's and 70's only to learn later in life that many things I believed to be facts where total fiction.

Back when it was released I'll admit that I enjoyed it, granted I was a pre teen at the time and had no idea of the factual history of this battle, but when I did find this out I was very disappointed, for unlike The guns of Navarone, Where Eagles Dare, Kelly’s Heroes, Cross of Iron (Steiner - Das Eiserne Kreuz) and many other movies that never claimed to be anything more than a good war story with WWII was merely as a setting, this movie claims a historical position and pretends to portray the facts of the event.

Just some of the factual movies from the same period that are in they mostly got it right column are:
The Bridge at Remagen
The battle of Britain
The man who never was
The PT109
Tora Tora Tora
Sink the Bismark
A bridge to far
The Dam Busters
Above Us the Waves
The one that got away
60 seconds over Tokyo
Kampen om tungtvannet
....just to name a few

IMO some of those that did not:
The battle of the Bulge
Operation Crossbow
Mosquito Squadron
The Heroes of Telemark

I have no problem with a fictional yarn based in WWII or any war for that matter, why Kelly's Heroes is one of my all time favourite movies, It just those that distort or pretend to tell the facts that annoy me, the titles in the second list have taken one or two facts from particular events and then simply either exaggerated them or made up more facts of their own to fit the story line.

As far as the Patton stand-ins go, as you can see from my first list not having correct German or US armour in a film is not the biggest issue it is the misrepresentation of the facts that bug me the most, but the M47s were the proverbial straw as far as this movie goes. Trying to use your analogy actors wear costumes and make up to look like the person they are trying to portray, in A Bridge to far the Leopards playing the Tigers at least had a little cosmetic work done to them as did the German half-tracks mock-ups to at least hide some of their identity, the only make up the M47s got was a cross, and seeing they were playing such a lead role well.....!

By the way during the same period the Russians made lots of a WWII movies one being about the battle of Kursk and they got several Tigers running for this movie and mocked up several more like those in Kelly's Heroes to make up the numbers.

Now please do not take any of the above personally as this is not an attack on you in any way, you just happen to have picked the one movie that hits a raw nerve and one that has left me with a scar, as for a long time I thought that the events portrayed in The battle of the bulge movie were what really happened but now I know better.

Knowledge can be a terrible thing that can take away a lot of joy, take for instance the 90’s movie The Memphis Belle, this would have been an excellent movie if the bomber and it’s crew had been entirely fictional, but having passed the events off in the film as the actual last flight of the Belle killed it for me, I won’t even bother mentioning Pearl Harbour, oops I just did.

Panther F · Post by **Panther F** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:44 pm

Oh, I didn't take it personally at all. I was just referring to the plane in the opening shots of the movie when you came out with all that opinion. Everyone has one and that's totally great.

I take every movie as just entertainment and not let them mislead me on some road of fictitious based material. If I wanted to know (and I have) the true story of the BOB I would have seen a documentary or read a book. Not get them from a movie!

Peace!

Jeff

Spudkopf · Post by **Spudkopf** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:06 pm

G’day Jeff

The fact that you can take such movies as entertainment and still also know the facts is a great skill, which I sadly lack and am much envious of.

My greatest issue are the greater unwashed who unlike yourself (and like me in my pre-teens years) still believe the facts as portrayed in these movies, just imagine how many now have had their perception of history totally skewed by movies such as The Memphis Belle and Pearl Harbour. I just wish more Hollywood producers would take more care of history, taking their lead from such excellent productions as Band of Brothers for example.

Sadly I have tried to shut out all memory of the BOB movie and can no longer even remember the aeroplane scene you talk of, but instead seem to have extremely clarity when it comes to all the things that annoy me about the film.