F4 Phantom on a back burner

[VMF115]

Honestly I think we *should* be giving 21st a hard time about it if they don't produce after *promising* they would *in writing*. They also showed their model unless I'm mistaken? (I could be). Remember, they came out with their statement after Admiral announced theirs for Christmas, causing Admiral to delay if not cancel theirs..

First of all, TKO is not 21C so if you want to give 21C a hard time don't call out TKO. Also, let me get this straight - if AT delays their F4 it is OK but for 21C then no? If bbi says - "in writing" - that the Hellcat will be out in Feb. but it is actually August that is OK, but 21C deserves a "hard time"? If AT says it is making a Zero but then no, it is OK, right? Let's be fair here guys..

I agree, lets be fair with 21st.

[grunt1]

So this is crap?

http://www.21stcenturytoys.com/area21/a ... newsID=258

[digger]

No, that says it shows the 1st paint scheme. Not a 1:18 prototype. It is the "paint master" - almost always a small scale model.

[grunt1]

digger, are you in sales or marketing? lol

"Check out the 1:18 scale F-4 Phantom II paint master!"

[Birddog]

"Check out the 1:18 scale F-4 Phantom II paint master!"

I think you have to be careful on the play of words with that statement.

Could mean ...the actual 1/18 F-4 in paint scheme 1 or just an example of what the 1/18 F-4 is going to look like in paint scheme 1...

It's open to individual interpretation and interpretation can always be a fun thing.....

[FieroDude]

I belive the photos show a 1/72 scale piece. Someone I spoke to said it looks like a Tamiya piece. Which is fine, it's SOP for a preliminary paint master.

Personally, I still would like to see the Admiral version come to life, more than anything. If for no other reason, because they had the balls to announce it and the prototype to back it up. I still stand by the belief that it doesn't matter what you promise--what counts is what you deliver. I know some people are still irked about AT cancelling the Zero. At least they did tell us that they had, and why. Better than showing a prototype and never saying another word about it and never releasing it (where's my A-10???)

I have yet to see any definitive proof that 21st will have a 1/18th version any time soon (or even a 1/32 version, which they also announced once bbi showed theirs). If 21st can and will deliver, great. If this was just a pissing contest to try to knock Admiral out of the business, and the 21st version is no longer seen through to completion because its goal has been achieved, we will know the truth behind the motives soon enough.

As far as delays: everyone has them and they are frustrating (especially when EVERYTHING comes to a screeching halt like it did most of this year), but they come with the territory. When Admiral annonced the F-4 for Christmas 2007 launch, it was reasonable since they had the prototype--not foreseeing the factory issues they have had to go through. In that 21st had no prototype, I thought it was an ambitious plan for them and figured everything else would go on the back burner to achieve it. Realistically, I would say fall 2008. We'll know in the next year or two, I guess.

Just my 3.5 cents (inflation strikes again).

[Birddog]

Like you said FieroDude, I would personally like to see the AT F-4 come to life because of their willingness to announce it with the actual prototype to back it up too. To me that shows the company's willingness to put their hat in the ring and follow through. As far as ATs Zero, here are my thoughts/opinions:

It was already prototyped, but since bbi had already beat them to the market and 21st had announced they were going to do one too, I can see why they pulled out on that one. But hey, they did have a pototype to show when they discussed it. That was the same year, but after bbi released theirs and 21st announced their plans for one if I recall correctly. 21st Century ended up not producing theirs and no one gave them a hard time about it either. What's funny is we hadn't even known about AT for too long before they revealed it to us. Thinking back on it, they really didn't even have to show it at all, but they did. I think it was to show us that they were listening. It might also be that the F-86 box design was in print already and it had the Zero on it as an upcoming aircraft. It's possible they had already given the go ahead to the box design for production before the announcements and releases from the other two were known. Why leave us hanging about it.

I hope 21st can deliver on what they have proposed too, late or not, now that AT appears to have backed away from the F-4. If either AT or 21st deliver on the F-4 in 1/18 period, I think it will be great for this hobby's growth. If the TF thing was a pissing contest, that would be a great loss to us all in my opinion.

Delays as we have all seen are just a part of the game for everyone.

[VMF115]

I really wish TKO would let us know whats going on with their F4 in 1:18...Right now i feel this has got to be one of the slowest years for 1:18...The BBi Hellcat was great and some of 21st P-51D were great too this year but that was about it....262 was a cool one too.
Please let there be hope for that 1:18 F4 Phantom you said you make for us....

And we want to know more about the Mig-21, too also

[CW4USARMY]

Honestly I think we *should* be giving 21st a hard time about it if they don't produce after *promising* they would *in writing*. They also showed their model unless I'm mistaken? (I could be). Remember, they came out with their statement after Admiral announced theirs for Christmas, causing Admiral to delay if not cancel theirs..

First of all, TKO is not 21C so if you want to give 21C a hard time don't call out TKO. Also, let me get this straight - if AT delays their F4 it is OK but for 21C then no? If bbi says - "in writing" - that the Hellcat will be out in Feb. but it is actually August that is OK, but 21C deserves a "hard time"? If AT says it is making a Zero but then no, it is OK, right? Let's be fair here guys..

I dont think anybody here is giving TKO a hard time. But, to answer your questions about Bbi and AT. The difference from them and 21sdt is they told us what is going on. 21st doesnt.

[Black Lion VF-213]

That picture of the supposed paint master F-4 has got to be a scale model. That looks like too much detail that could feasibly go into an 18 scale Phantom made to be more durable like a toy. Too close to a museum piece.

Besides it's not the first time nor will it be the last time that 21st shows us a painted high detail small scale model and pawn it off as the 18 scale production piece. Look at the Big Beautiful Doll. Especially on their website. There is no way the pictured BBD Stang is 18 or even plastic. Look at the tanks and the main landing gear doors. just like the pictures of Ridge Runner on all of the boxes of the second series P-51's. it's the same smaller scale plane, just different paint. Can be very disappointing for someone who just enters this hobby, buys a newer Stang, opens the box and compares their Ridge Runner to the one pictured and notices the discrepancies....

[WGP Klaus]

Aren't these pictures (except for the toy fair one) of the 1:18th prototype?

http://www.sshqdb.com/coppermine/displa ... =522&pos=3

thats a 1/32 model, certainly not 1:18 scale, and more than likely not even 21st's piece!

[tankgirl33]

I saw on Bad Cats blog that Rob has talked to Jason of Admiral Toys about some of the new 1:18 releases and was told that the F4 is on the back burner....
Very sad news to hear.....Really wanted that Phantom too.
JP

What a shame, I seen the Phantom at the Dayton airshow and of course I would love to have one now. I want it to look just like the one at the show though, it was camoflaged!! Awesome!

[tankgirl33]

Aren't these pictures (except for the toy fair one) of the 1:18th prototype?

http://www.sshqdb.com/coppermine/displa ... =522&pos=3

thats a 1/32 model, certainly not 1:18 scale, and more than likely not even 21st's piece!

Aw, I love it, I hope it looks just like that when it comes out.

[tmanthegreat]

It won't If 21c's past track record is any example, the paint will be sloppily applied, the canopy cracked, glue stains, large gaps between pieces and parts loose in the box...

I'm only partly kidding, of course

[FieroDude]

It won't If 21c's past track record is any example, the paint will be sloppily applied, the canopy cracked, glue stains, large gaps between pieces and parts loose in the box...

I'm only partly kidding, of course

just partly, eh?

[tko211]

I know things have been "quiet on the western front" so to speak. I understand everyones excitement, and anticipation for the F-4. I have also been anxious to learn of any updates from 21st in regards to the Phantom. Because I don't work for them and mostly because I am not located in California, you can imagine the difficuly in getting all the dirt sometimes. There are many business factors that come into play that as fans we don't always see or that we are not shown for obvious reasons.

However, I can promise you that 21st does care about the fans and that they do try to give fans the products that they want most. The F-4 is no exception. I have been talking with 21st recently about the Phantom project in hopes that we could get some solid information to help settle the dust on the concern for the project. I have not been given specific details and for the moment I doubt that I will get specifics anytime soon.
But from what I have been able to gather, it looks like the Phantom is still on the table and even still in development.

With only 3-4 months left in the year it is safely assumed that we will not see this monster aircraft in 2007 as was originally planned. As you know project delays are part of this business. It is a direct result of the toy industry in general and not just a 21C phenomenon. We have seen recent evidence in other project delays such as the Hellcat, Dauntless, Skyraider, and the repaint me-262 from Admiral. Just to name a few.

Meanwhile, I do expect that we will get an official statement from 21st in regards to the Phantom project as they (21C) absolutely wants to keep the fans in the loop! 21st has expressed mutual interest in addressing the concern for the Vietnam warbird.

That's all for now! I will be back soon.

-TKO

[VMF115]

Thanks Tko for the heads up!

[tosborne3]

What TKO said about 21C caring for their customers is absolutely correct. I've been collecting for many years now and 21C has been the very best at giving fans what they want. I love the fact that they threw in extra heads with a lot of the xd figures, that's just a little bit of love from 21C.

[MightyMustang]

Jason shared all that info with us the other day. Glad we were first.

On a side note I see Mighty Mustang found a place in BCA's Admiral toys thread to tout his bbi planes..

Hey digger I wont comment about what you said here on the board but let me say that if you have a problem with me touting "my" BBI planes then why dont you pm me instead if you have a problem with it?

[digger]

Just notied you hijacked the AT thread, my apologies.

[CW4USARMY]

I know things have been "quiet on the western front" so to speak. I understand everyones excitement, and anticipation for the F-4. I have also been anxious to learn of any updates from 21st in regards to the Phantom. Because I don't work for them and mostly because I am not located in California, you can imagine the difficuly in getting all the dirt sometimes. There are many business factors that come into play that as fans we don't always see or that we are not shown for obvious reasons.

However, I can promise you that 21st does care about the fans and that they do try to give fans the products that they want most. The F-4 is no exception. I have been talking with 21st recently about the Phantom project in hopes that we could get some solid information to help settle the dust on the concern for the project. I have not been given specific details and for the moment I doubt that I will get specifics anytime soon.
But from what I have been able to gather, it looks like the Phantom is still on the table and even still in development.

With only 3-4 months left in the year it is safely assumed that we will not see this monster aircraft in 2007 as was originally planned. As you know project delays are part of this business. It is a direct result of the toy industry in general and not just a 21C phenomenon. We have seen recent evidence in other project delays such as the Hellcat, Dauntless, Skyraider, and the repaint me-262 from Admiral. Just to name a few.

Meanwhile, I do expect that we will get an official statement from 21st in regards to the Phantom project as they (21C) absolutely wants to keep the fans in the loop! 21st has expressed mutual interest in addressing the concern for the Vietnam warbird.

That's all for now! I will be back soon.

-TKO

I give you credit TKO! You are trying your best to keep hope alive. You just used 5 paragraphs to tell us that 21st isn't telling you anything, but that maybe some time in the future, they might tell us something, because the really appreciate us. LOL!!!
(if they truly appreciated your efforts, they wouldn't leave you high and dry without any info to post for so long. Not to mention using your posts to put out bogus info) OK, got to stop, starting to get all worked up again.

Keep buggin them bro, and maybe they'll throw us some crumbs!

[Jolly Roger]

I know things have been "quiet on the western front" so to speak. I understand everyones excitement, and anticipation for the F-4. I have also been anxious to learn of any updates from 21st in regards to the Phantom. Because I don't work for them and mostly because I am not located in California, you can imagine the difficuly in getting all the dirt sometimes. There are many business factors that come into play that as fans we don't always see or that we are not shown for obvious reasons.

However, I can promise you that 21st does care about the fans and that they do try to give fans the products that they want most. The F-4 is no exception. I have been talking with 21st recently about the Phantom project in hopes that we could get some solid information to help settle the dust on the concern for the project. I have not been given specific details and for the moment I doubt that I will get specifics anytime soon.
But from what I have been able to gather, it looks like the Phantom is still on the table and even still in development.

With only 3-4 months left in the year it is safely assumed that we will not see this monster aircraft in 2007 as was originally planned. As you know project delays are part of this business. It is a direct result of the toy industry in general and not just a 21C phenomenon. We have seen recent evidence in other project delays such as the Hellcat, Dauntless, Skyraider, and the repaint me-262 from Admiral. Just to name a few.

Meanwhile, I do expect that we will get an official statement from 21st in regards to the Phantom project as they (21C) absolutely wants to keep the fans in the loop! 21st has expressed mutual interest in addressing the concern for the Vietnam warbird.

That's all for now! I will be back soon.

-TKO

TKO your in the dangerous "middleman" territory now, you know what happens when something goes wrong... you have to quit the family

[MightyMustang]

Just notied you hijacked the AT thread, my apologies.

You know digger I'm trying to be a nice guy here but obviously your trying to goad me into a flame war and that aint gonna happen. Like I said before if you have a problem with what I say on this board, or any other board for that matter, then pm me ok because if you want to make this a personal thing between you and me for all to read then keep it up.

Now drop it!!!!

Oh and by the way I wasnt the one who hijacked the AT thread. Bad Cat decided to drop it because there were others who made some nasty comments that they felt didnt need to be posted for all to see. So before you blame someone for something GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!

[tko211]

This is for CW4USARMY-
(Readers Digest Version of my last post)

F-4 Phantom is NOT a dead project.
F-4 Phantom project is behind schedule.
F-4 Will NOT be released in 2007.