Small Scale Military Headquarters

I was thinking, what, realistically, would be the largest model we could see mass-produced in 1:18? Although I’ve yet to see one, many are saying the Avenger is huge and I wonder if that could have reached the reasonable size limit for an off-the shelf model? I will be very interested if the Avengers sell through the holidays, or will be shelf-warmers. I’d like to see some larger planes (wouldn’t a C-47 be sweet! And think about the paint variations on that!), but I don’t think there would be enough sales for a manufacturer to tackle anything larger than a 3-foot wingspan.

I think a Mosquito (or similar sized plane) would be it... The dimensions are not that much greater than the Avenger, and it would cost about the same and save for the folding wings and turret, have similar engineering complications. As for modern planes, I could see something like the F-4.

I would love to say a B-25 would be the largest (alot of members have been wishing for one for years) but that is getting quite large, increasingly complicated, and therefore expensive. The interior on an Avenger is far less extensive than what would be needed to sasisfy the 21c designers - let alone us collectors - for a B-25. The same could be said for some of the larger modern planes. I'd love to see an F-14 in 1:18, and it would sell quite well, I think, but it would be massive, complicated to produce, and expensive!

Large is one issue but will they sell is another, and Im sure 21st #1 priority is to make profits as with any business. I doubt we will see any real large aircraft simply for the reasons I specified. The cost will be a big factor, eventhough aircraft like the C-47,B-17 etc.. are really cool, think about bow big one of those would be, let lone the cost, I wouldnt rule out 200.00-250.00 + dollars if not more. its not like you could go out and clear the shelves of them like you could some of these fighter aircraft that are out now.
I think 21st will concentrate on fighter aircraft, and MAYBE, just MAYBE we will see some twin engine fighters/fighter bombers (Mosquito,Me-110 and the like)
I am very impressed with the Mig-Sabre aircraft that have just been released, it has really inspired me alot, and these were 2 aircraft on my top 5 most wanted. How could they help not do a Sabre and Mig combo!!!
just as Vietnam and the Phantom rumors going around, if they do come out with a Phantom, they just got to produce a Mig-17 or Mig-21. the Phantom will by far be the biggest that 21st has ever done up to date, but man is it popular, but remember cost, I wouldnt rule out 125.00 + per copy on that bad boy, BUT it will sell if its done right.
My want list:

WWII-
Mk.V or later variant Spitfire
Mosquito

Jets
Mig-21
Mig-17
Mig-29 -- size is going to be big
F-4 Phantom- Size is going to be big
F-15 -- Size is going to be big.
F-5
got the BBi F-16 (But I really wanted to make mine a SC National Guard version when Bad Cat had the decals to make one to your choosing) Since I am a South Carolinian. But now they dont have the decals anymore. man that sux....

based on the F-104 that 21st has already made, there are several aircraft of comparable size even smaller.
mig-21,F-5,mig-17,Harrier.
So with that said, the ones mentioned above Im not ruling out.

Lets jsut hope we will see some really cool subjects come out in 2007.

An often pondered question. It would not shock me to see a B-25 one day. But, it would not shock me if we did not either. I would say the same for a B-17. BUT the real question is HOW MANY big aircraft will we see mass produced? And i think the answer to that is an obvious: not many at all.

Will we see a B-25, B-17 or C-47 some day? Yes i would say we will see one of them. Will we see all of them? Very unlikely, but possible. Will we see a 1/18 Lancaster, He-177 or Japanese Betty? No chance.

Because the US market is the largest and most important, there is a slim chance of seeing a small handful of larger US aircraft types because those will sell the best to Americans.

I could see a 1/18 Mosquito some day and maybe, just maybe a Junkers 88 but that would be the largest i expect to see for non-US planes.

In modern: a Tomcat or F-15? Perhaps but they are big and heavy. So an A-10 (if one ever comes out) may be the largest we see for modern. Su-27's, Tornados and the like? No chance.

I'll be the first to say it. It's the Phantom. Not everyone's favorite (and not wanting to start a fight here so calm down) but like it or not if you're dropping money on a call down in Vegas and the question is "pick one and only one <insert definition of large here> airplane to build in 1:18" it would have to be the F-4. ALSO - let's be careful (and specific!) are we talking about a plane that will be sold "widespread" like the 21c German fighters we find all over both e-tailers and Walmart OR does this question also include limited edition runs as well. I'm not sure your question can ever be answered if we are to include limited edition runs.

Can we clarify this before we continue?

Spruce Goose or a Caspian Sea Monster

We need a 1:18 C-5 to move all of our Bbi stuff..

This is how it will go if I have to explain to my G/F that I am getting a b-17 or anything bigger…


Honey you are going to have to move your stuffed bar collection and your self to make room for a new plane…….WACK!!!!!!!!!! Wallop!!!!!!!!!!! Hey what was that for…..?

As this hobby grows and more companies get involved in the 1:18 scale we will probably start to see more of a selection, right now many companies just see the 1:18 scale as a novelty.

I say a Mossie has to be in the mix. Hasn't Roy written books on this bird? He has to have considered it at some point. I can't count how many times I built the 1-48 Monogram kit of this plane. Besides, this is another of those it could go either way birds. Though, I don't know if I like the American liveries that well. The only one I have had real exposure to is the one here at the AF Museum painted in Recon light blue.

I would say a B-25 is definately doable. Anything larger is just too much. It's not just size folks, but the weight. Man, the F-18 is the heaviest of the lot and I couldn't imagine just how heavy a B-17 would be!

Talking about Roy's book:

http://www.amazon.com/Modelling-Havilla ... F8&s=books

I would just love the mossie to death in 1:18....

-Ski

Here are some estimated measurments on some of the birds mentioned above:

Done:

F-18 (if you have one, it's a good benchmark)
1/18 scale:
Wingspan- 25"
Length- 37"
--------------------------------------
Hope to see:

A-10
1/18 scale:
Wingspan- 38"
Length- 36"

F-4
1/18 scale:
Wingspan- 25"
Length- 42"

Tornado
1/18 scale:
Wingspan- 31" (un-swept)/19" (swept)
Length- 36"

Mig-21
1/18 scale:
Wingspan- 15.6"
Length- 35"

B-25
1/18 scale:
Wingspan- 45"
Length- 36"

Mosquito
1/18 scale:
Wingspan- 36"
Length- 30"

If they do a B-25, they have to do an A-10. It's not as complicated and it's been requested by many here for a long time too. 21st has a good looking prototype (although they don't think it is) we know about so we know it can be done. I'm hoping it is a matter of time before an A-10 pops up from someone. To me it would pretty much be like blending an Avenger and an F-18 together. Got to have the TRUE Close Air Support for your modern collection.

The F-4....Come on, its a no brainer. Look at the size of it compared to the F-18. Wingspan is roughly the same. The fuselage is long, but we've all seen how crafty they are at breaking down a fuselage. If a Starfighter can be recognized and sell well broken into three pieces, I think an F-4 could do the same.

Mig-21....If you have an F-4, you have to have a Mig-21.

The Mosquito.....well we got an Avenger and a P-38 didn't we?

The Tornado ......hmmm.....can't say the size would kill it.....I guess the swing wing and the fact that it might not be appealing to enough of the market would prevent it from being made.

Not including the F-18 since it has been done, I think we have a good chance of seeing all the aircraft listed above with exception to the Tornado.

Now, where's my A-10?

Depends if you mean C21 & BBI "toy" models or the sort of thing aeromodellers routinely throw around the sky .

Graupner make a 1/9th scale NH90 helicopter that can be powered by either the good old i.c. piston engines most people know and love, or the more exciting (and much more expensive! I think they still cost around 1000 GBpounds! ) jet engines that are gaining in popularity. There are a large (and increasing) number of other jet-powered models and no let-up in the production of non-jet models too.

These range from the blobby polystyrene items like the Phantom mentioned elsewhere to hand-built models of near-museum quality. I've seen photos of a 1/6th scale F15 Eagle and Eurofighter Typhoon that have the BBI cockpit and a 1/6th scale pilot figure seated in it.
I don't think there are that many 1/18th models out there though - more due to lack of demand than due to the size when built.

The question isn't really which model, it's more which manufacturer and how much will it cost - if you limit yourself to AT, BBI and C21 then you're missing out on a much larger world.

Who knows, mebbe we *will* see a Hornet flying here one day!

(hope nobody takes offence to this - none is intended.

We need a 1:18 C-5 to move all of our Bbi stuff..

If you are going to move some serious cargo you need the largest aircraft in the world..... I give you the Antonov AN-225 "Mriya"... http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1 ... id=1124701
Just check out the other aircraft in the foreground to give you an idea of the sheer size of this beast, I mean the wingspan of an XD model would only be what? 9 feet or something?? Completely doable I should think
On a more realistic note, hows about an F-105 Thunderchief?? Should be well within the realistic limits for the size of a 1/18th scale model, about the same length of an F-104 and with a relatively short wingspan, and it's one that I've not seen anybody mention so far.... http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1 ... id=1011549

Wasn't there talk from 21C about producing the larger planes in a smaller scale to make us happy? A B-17 in 1/32 would stretch it, but in 1/48???

Even being a ground guy, I'd by a B-25 (any and all models) or a Mossie in 1/18 quicker than you can type a response to this. My plastic is ready and waiting, all rested up from the BCA's M-16 and Pioneer HT, received last night.

I'm ready.......show me the big planes

TTT

I would say anything with two engines is possible. I really hope to see something like that someday.

Mark

MAYBE a B-25 and thats it. I highly doubt we will ever see a B-17 because of the cost it would take just to make one. Thats where my modeling skills come in though and I build one myself. Which I already have mind you. My next modeling projects are a 1/32nd scale Dauntless and F6F Hellcat, which will be a stand in until the 1/18th Hellcat arrives next year.

It's the money, folks.

Once you move much beyond the ~$50-$60 range the number of potential buyers slopes down off the chart rather rapidly, no matter how many of us die-hard enthusiasts we seem to think there are.

Having said that, if there were about a thousand collectors willing to put up $250 for eighteen months in advance to move, say a Doolittle-marked B-25 into production, we might see a manufacturer willing to use their resources to match and front the project.

How about the F4 drivers out there? There's a lot more of them, and maybe $150 per would prime the pump.

To me, giving a responsible firm $250 to be put into a trustee-managed escrow account for twleve to eighteen months to get one very exclusive mark into production would be perfectly reasonable. If they don't get enough investor/demand to launch production, they would commit to sending 95% of it back to the enthusiasts (to allow for a 5% management fee). If and when the orders come in, at least those of us who fronted the project would have truly collectible limited first-release items and would have helped to get a product to market.

Now, IMHO, all we need to do is expand this beyond this somewhat limited forum.

Let's offer to put our money where our mouth/demand is.

Anyone out there with more product syndication experience?

Flytiger wrote:It's the money, folks.

Once you move much beyond the ~$50-$60 range the number of potential buyers slopes down off the chart rather rapidly, no matter how many of us die-hard enthusiasts we seem to think there are.

Having said that, if there were about a thousand collectors willing to put up $250 for eighteen months in advance to move, say a Doolittle-marked B-25 into production, we might see a manufacturer willing to use their resources to match and front the project.

How about the F4 drivers out there? There's a lot more of them, and maybe $150 per would prime the pump.

To me, giving a responsible firm $250 to be put into a trustee-managed escrow account for twleve to eighteen months to get one very exclusive mark into production would be perfectly reasonable. If they don't get enough investor/demand to launch production, they would commit to sending 95% of it back to the enthusiasts (to allow for a 5% management fee). If and when the orders come in, at least those of us who fronted the project would have truly collectible limited first-release items and would have helped to get a product to market.

Now, IMHO, all we need to do is expand this beyond this somewhat limited forum.

Let's offer to put our money where our mouth/demand is.

Anyone out there with more product syndication experience?

Sounds good to me

If someone wanted a 1/18th-ish scale B-25 you should look into the Flying Styro R/C kit. It has a 48" wing span so it's in the 1/18 scale ball park, costs between $240 and $280 depending upon the level of detail you want included, and it is readily available. I bought mine from the web site listed below. I haven't assembled it yet but I will say it is awesome. Sure, it doesn't have the exact scale detail of the static planes discussed on this forum, but it's close enough until someone decides to release one. And hey, you never know, you just may find yourself hooked on another hobby


http://www.hobby-lobby.com/b-25.htm

Airacobra wrote:If someone wanted a 1/18th-ish scale B-25 you should look into the Flying Styro R/C kit. It has a 48" wing span so it's in the 1/18 scale ball park, costs between $240 and $280 depending upon the level of detail you want included, and it is readily available. I bought mine from the web site listed below. I haven't assembled it yet but I will say it is awesome. Sure, it doesn't have the exact scale detail of the static planes discussed on this forum, but it's close enough until someone decides to release one. And hey, you never know, you just may find yourself hooked on another hobby


http://www.hobby-lobby.com/b-25.htm

Nice!!!!!!

The price is a bit hefty, that kit looks very nice! I like the superdetailed version, and it doesn't require all that much assenbly. Now, who will be the first boardmember to purchase one, build it, and stick a few 1:18 pilot figures in it

hmm....just a little bigger than 1/17 scale, so not too bad. Does the surface have a styrofoam texture to it? Like a cofee cup look? Would appreciate you posting some pictures.

Unfortunately I do not own a camera but I can say that the pictures on the web site I provided are a very good representation of what the model will look like. Yes, it is made of foam, but it is a bit tougher that a coffee cup, and the texture is more smoth as well. If you look real close you can tell it's not plastic, but it doesn't jump out at you. That kit is meant as an R/C aircraft so it is built with weight as a consideration but it is plenty durable for your average shelf use, but I wouldn't recommend letting any children play with it. Since we are on the topic of larger 1/18th-ish scale planes I have a couple more to share. I do not own the two listed below but plan to some day. The first is a B-17 with a 70" wingspan. This kit would cost roughly $300 and would require a bit more construction than the B-25 but the results speak for themselves. Just click on the link than look for the B-17 link.

http://eam.net/EAMRC/scalemulti.htm

The next one is a messerschmitt BF-110C with a wingspan of roughly 44" and is priced around $200 or so. I think you have to special order this one because they have to order it directly from the manufacturer. I have been drooling over this one for quite some time and I think the pictures pretty much speak for themselves.

http://www.newcreations-rc.com/ProductD ... ber=FSK028

Anyways, I thought I would post a couple more R/C kits that fall within the 1/18th-ish size range that may never be produced as a strictly static model. I just figured that since people were saying these things would cost around $250 to buy if they were made I would post some around that price range that are available now. Sure, you may have to assemble these and the B-17 requires a bit more building than the other two, at least you know they exist.

that EAM B-17 has been discussed on here a few times. It actually requires a lot of building as there are no wings or tail surfaces at all, just rectangular foam cores. The builder has to make the wings (and entire tailplane) out of thin plywood sheet, cutting formers to get the curves right etc. It's essentially a scratchbuild of the wings and tail surfaces.

The fuselage is pre molded fiberglass and there are vacuform turrets, canopies, nacelles etc. It's a huge amount of work though, yet it may well turn out to be the only way to get a B-17 in this scale. (the actual scale is 1/17.9, so it's extremely close to XD).

The 110 is quite nice but pretty big....closer to 1/12 than 1/18.

The GWS A-10 is spot on 1/18 but is foam and has no weapons:

http://www.newcreations-rc.com/ProductD ... er=GWS1055

This Tornado is also close to 1/18 but is pricey and somwhat basic (the wings are non-swinging slabs):

http://www.newcreations-rc.com/ProductD ... ber=VAS006

By the way, which B-25 kit did you purchase? The basic one or the super detailed one? And how much assembly and painting is required, do you think?

Seen this B-17 kit in flight on You tube. Simply awsome! I think it was some kind of tribute to Bit O'Lace.

I bought the super detailed version and if you are only going to use it as a display model it would go together fairly quickly. If you have ever built a plastic model you would have no trouble putting the B-25 together. A good weekends worth of work should do it. Sorry about posting the EAM B-17, I'm pretty new to this board and got a little too excited about trying to help out. I plan on purchasing this kit sooner or later so I will give you a better idea of what would be involved with building it. I have a few of the flying styro kits including the P-51B "old crow", P-40N, and B-25. I also have a KI-84 and a P-47D "bubble canopy" from a company called Alpha. Some of these kits are still advertised on Hobby-Lobbys website, but I think they can still order any kit made by flying styro and alpha, you just have to ask.