Bad Cat Avenger Review

[Folkwulfe]

Got my "as promised" Bad Cat Avenger last night. I originally ordered it through BCT and, with all the delays suffered by so many, I left it in play. I found a WM Avenger in the meantime....so I have both and this is how they compare.

WM version: We all have heard the complaints about the rushed WM Avenger. Some were missing parts altogether, while others suffered from QC problems. The biggest complaint was about all the missing screw covers and huge holes left by them. Mine had a bent prop blade that I still haven't taken the time to straighten...but that's not a problem.

BCT version: We were promised screw hole covers (got'em), attached pitot tube (got it), and "historical accuracy enhancements". When I compare both the WM and BCT (other than the screw hole covers and pitot tube) I really can't see much difference....at all! There are still QC issues as mine has what looks like cardboard imbedded in the surface if the vertical tail. Must have pressed against it while the paint was wet. There are serious gaps in the trailing edges of several surfaces and lots of "shiny spots" in the flat paint where wire ties rubbed against it in the box. Again...no big deal, I can fix that. Except for a few more swipes with a brush dipped in silver paint inside the radio compartment and bomb bay....I can see no difference at all.

So...the BCT version is nice, but it is in no way far superior to the WM version unless the screw hole covers are beyond you ability to make yourself. If people desire pictures, I can provide as many as you want, just tell me what version and what area.

[USCGSARdog]

Folkwulfe's description is accurate. I kept my preorder inspite of having found one through a boardmember earlier. The screw hole covers were not a big deal to me, as I have already repaired the ones on my WM Avenger. (along with many other custom mods! ) What kept me from cancelling my preorder was the supposed "historical accuracy enhancements" that were to be added to the second run of Avengers. Was BCT speaking of the extra silver paint added to the interior of the plane? If so then I must say that for the first time, I am disappointed. I at least expected to see the missing blue position lights on top of the wings or more data stenciling included on the second run model. No such luck. That said, In all fairness, I did not remove the plane from the box, so I may be missing the historically accurate addition to this model. If so, please accept my sincerest apologies.

I will say however that I love the Avenger, WM version or second run. It is a wonderful piece and in my opinion well worth the money and the wait. 21C has done a superb job of replicating this aircraft in 1/18 scale and at a price that I think most will agree is reasonable.

-Rob

[der Vogelfänger]

Thanks, you two, for the input.....having converted my BCT preorder a couple of months ago to the CL-13 and the Me-262, I finally found an Avenger at a local WM. Having heard that there were changes and enhancements, I was naturally sort of ticked, in general, hoping that most of us had not spent our monies foolishly at WM....whew....great input and assessments for all of us to enjoy! THANKS, again, WHEWWW....

dV

[scbvideoboy]

I got mine from military toy shop today. I had already bought and unboxed a WM one.

The screw covers look rushed and unmatched paint for what I saw boxed.

I had hoped the improvement would have been the bombay doors?


Hopefully my dad got his dropped shipped from them (surprise gift) He had just finished the trumpter 1/32 Avenger.

Dave

[Threetoughtrucks]

WM version: We all have heard the complaints about the rushed WM Avenger

I guess I haven't been keeping up on current events....but the Avenger was "rushed" into Wallywotld?

If the Avenger was "rushed" and it took three years, I don't expect to see the new half-tracks and the PAK40 for a few more years.

TTT

[MG-42]

WM version: We all have heard the complaints about the rushed WM Avenger

I guess I haven't been keeping up on current events....but the Avenger was "rushed" into Wallywotld?

If the Avenger was "rushed" and it took three years, I don't expect to see the new half-tracks and the PAK40 for a few more years.

TTT

<<< >>> ... <<< >>> ... <<< >>> ... ^ MG

[VMF115]

WM version: We all have heard the complaints about the rushed WM Avenger

I guess I haven't been keeping up on current events....but the Avenger was "rushed" into Wallywotld?

If the Avenger was "rushed" and it took three years, I don't expect to see the new half-tracks and the PAK40 for a few more years.

TTT

It’s just a sign that some “toy manufacture” needs to gets it act together.

Quantity is not quality

As for the torpedo bay doors it seemed to me that they wanted to save cost at the expanse of historical accuracy

I was hoping to see the Avenger on the box look like the one in the package with the antenna and proper torpedo bay doors. I am glad I did not buy a “improved version” I think I will pass on the lost version unless they fix the Avengers for the tarpedo bay doors.

I will say however that I love the Avenger, but not to the extent of buying another one.

Btw any one have a good idea how to make the torpedo bay doors correct?

[MightyMustang]

Wow it seem's to me that I'm better off finding an Avenger at Wallymart instead of buying one online. And whats the deal about the Avenger torpedo doors being inacurate? They dont look that way to me, but how would I know? I still havent found one yet.


As for the comment "It’s just a sign that some “toy manufacture” needs to gets it act together" goes I think 21st is doing a good job. After all the moaning and complaining about waiting for the Avenger we should be happy to now have the darn thing. 21st put alot of time and effort into the Avenger and I think they should be applauded for that. I know if I can find one and buy one I will be one happy camper. But I'm gonna wait because sooner or later Bad Cat will get the Bunker Hill Avenger and thats the one I want to go alongside my Bunker Hill F4U.

Who know's maybe BBI will paint up their Hellcat as a Bunker Hill version, now that would be sweet.

[flpickupman]

The torpedo bay doors are hinged on the actual Avenger. Each side consists of two panels, instead of the one you get with the 21C Avenger. Let me see if I can locate a photo.

Here ya go.

[Moth]

Im surprized 21stC didnt do the doors correctly, that the first thing I noticed when I saw a photo of the model, now If UPS would get here a bit faster!!!

[aferguson]

one of the reasons that the Avenger was delayed for so long was because they were trying to make the torpedo bay doors hinged down the middle like on the real thing. But after many attempts they decided it was going to be too expensive and too fragile to attempt. People are constantly belly aching about little parts breaking off or coming loose etc from 21C planes, tanks and figures.....imagine if they'd gone ahead with the hinged torpedo doors and they were always breaking or coming apart, which they inevitably would have been, since it is a fiddly little thing to make at this price point. So they decided to do without them.....but there is still belly aching, so sometimes they can't win.

If anyone feels ripped off by the lack of hinged torpedo doors, just take your Avenger back to WM.....i'm sure someone else will be happy to buy it, recognizing it if for the incredible bargain that it is.

As far as modifying the doors one's self: i think the simplest way would be to cut each door in two down the middle and then super glue a few small strips of lead foil to the insides of each hinge point area, connecting the two cut pieces. That way they will fold like they do on the real plane and you will be able to open out each door flat for closing into the fuselage, like on the real plane. Lead foil can be bent back and forth a million times without snapping from wear, so it's a simple, easy way of making each door hinge down the middle.

Now if we could maybe move this conversation back to the Avenger sticky, where it belongs..

[Sabrefan]

Good point. If 21st Century would have made the torpedo doors accurate, alot of us would be bitching because they would be so fragile.

[USCGSARdog]

If anyone is interested.... take the torpedo doors off of your Avenger and send them to me. I modified mine to operate as the original doors do, I would be glad to do a few more. They look great, I think the mod really makes the Avenger look more like, well, an Avenger! PM me for details.

Now if I could figure out the best way to post pics........

-Rob

[tmanthegreat]

First of all, thanks for the reviews regarding the improved Avengers! I was curious as to how those would compare with the WM versions. Secondly, as far as the bomb bay doors are concerned, I agree completely with Aferg and 21c's logic as far as not making them completely accurate. The doors still look fine to me and are delicate enough as is. However, I think its just awesome that we finally have an XD plane that can be displayed with an open bomb bay!

[Quixote511]

Yes, the double-hinged bomb bay doors would have been sweet. However, I, too, think it would have been overly delicate. It looks really cool how it is, in my opinion.

[tmanthegreat]

A question for the new tooling on the Avenger: are the turrets any easier to turn? On my WM edition Avenger, the turret ring was rather stiff initially and difficult to turn unless you removed the bubble and moved the ring itself. I have since largely fixed the problem by sanding down the ring some and lubricating it, but I'm just curious. I have a feeling that if there were indeed any new tooling over the WM planes it might involve something small, like a turret adjustment...

[tko211]

aferg has already shed some light on the bomb bay doors, but I thought I might elaborate as well.

21st did make early prototype attempts to put the accurate bi-fold in the doors. They failed to work correctly from several points. 1. They were indeed too fragile. 2. In an open position they simply would not stay open in the bi-fold manner and they droppped down anyway. 3. because of the length of each door and the thin nature of the door itself the hinges would often come loose and the doors would fall off. 4. In the close position they looked really bad and never closed correctly to give it a nice finished look.

Costs were not so much the issue, as much as the fact that frankly they sucked! The decision was then made to stop making attempts at the doors. This was one of the reasons for one of the engineering delays.

The time, energy, and money then went into a final re-work of the gun turret. Few fans really know the details but I will now shed some light. We almost had a turret that didn't open and came with a gunner torso and head cemented in place inside the bubble. The sacrafice of the inability to make the torpedo doors bi-fold was the result of extra effort put into the turret and removable figure that we enjoy today.

So people can argue as to what feature might have been better. However I am personally much ahppier to have an accurate turret that look, and operates perfectly. As opposed to accurate bomb doors that look bad and opperate worse!

FYI- NONE of the Avengers will come with bi-fold doors. In spite of this fact the Avenger remains the most complex, most detailed and feature packed 1:18 scale military product ever produced by any company. But that's just my opinion!

[tko211]

Here are some answers in regards to the Avengers WM vs. online.

The ONLY difference between the two are that the Online versions have screw covers, and the pitot tube comes pre attached.

That is it! no other modification, improvement, or adjustment has been made whatsoever.

To answer questions in regards to the turret stiffness... they are all the same, It is a complex moving area with lots of parts so I have found that they all function a little differently. alot has to do with the position of the rear deck, the position of the green house glass and the cemented position of the ring housing that effect the movement. Because all of the pieces are built and glued into the fuselage there are some differences in stiffness throughout every individual piece. bottom line... some are stiff some aren't just the way it goes.

Mine was stiff too so I put some graphite in the turret ring and it works much better now.
My friend who bought his at the same store on the same day as me has one that is very easy to move. My product sample of flight 19 moves easily as well.

Hope that helps answer any questions

[tmanthegreat]

Thanks TKO! The turret is one of my favorite parts of the Avenger (both on the actual plane and the XD version) and the fact that 21c made the piece accurate and able to accomodate a figure just plain rocks! The interior radios, ventral gun and flare chutes were also great details. As I said above, I'm personally cool with the bomb bay doors and don't feel they detract from the model at all. Check out the mod I made to the Avenger torpedo in the customs thread

[tko211]

Sweet! The prop really looks great! I think I may have to try someting like that myself.

[JOC]

tko211:
Any word or rumblings from 21st about screw covers for those that bought the WM Version of Avenger?
Thanks
JOC

[Sgt. Fury]

I had two Avengers which varied in weathering (which is why I bought them). The turret on the "raccoon" weathered one did not seat or rotate well at all. I eventually returned it. However, the other less weathered Avenger was perfect and the turret sat correctly and rotated easily. Both were bought the same day at the same store and could have come out of the same case. As previously said, things happen that way. It was definitely assembly-related. I was lucky and had eight examples to choose from. Fortunately, I chose...wisely.

[nfafan]

one of the reasons that the Avenger was delayed for so long was because they were trying to make the torpedo bay doors hinged down the middle like on the real thing. But after many attempts they decided it was going to be too expensive and too fragile to attempt. People are constantly belly aching about little parts breaking off or coming loose etc from 21C planes, tanks and figures.....imagine if they'd gone ahead with the hinged torpedo doors and they were always breaking or coming apart, which they inevitably would have been, since it is a fiddly little thing to make at this price point. So they decided to do without them.....but there is still belly aching, so sometimes they can't win.

If anyone feels ripped off by the lack of hinged torpedo doors, just take your Avenger back to WM.....i'm sure someone else will be happy to buy it, recognizing it if for the incredible bargain that it is.

<SNIP>

True.

Folks keep forgeting the part about 21C "Toys" - not 21C Museum Replicas.

That's all that 21C TOYS needs; all the Lil' Johhnys breaking their WallyWorld Avenger doors and returning them.

WallyWorld doesn't like giving money back.

[VMF115]

one of the reasons that the Avenger was delayed for so long was because they were trying to make the torpedo bay doors hinged down the middle like on the real thing. But after many attempts they decided it was going to be too expensive and too fragile to attempt. People are constantly belly aching about little parts breaking off or coming loose etc from 21C planes, tanks and figures.....imagine if they'd gone ahead with the hinged torpedo doors and they were always breaking or coming apart, which they inevitably would have been, since it is a fiddly little thing to make at this price point. So they decided to do without them.....but there is still belly aching, so sometimes they can't win.

If anyone feels ripped off by the lack of hinged torpedo doors, just take your Avenger back to WM.....i'm sure someone else will be happy to buy it, recognizing it if for the incredible bargain that it is.

<SNIP>

True.

Folks keep forgeting the part about 21C "Toys" - not 21C Museum Replicas.

That's all that 21C TOYS needs; all the Lil' Johhnys breaking their WallyWorld Avenger doors and returning them.

WallyWorld doesn't like giving money back.

IMHO
XD means Extreme Detail, so may be 21st should change their slogan, btw there has been a few modelers in my area that have suggested that idea.

When some ones says extreme detail what do you think when some one uses it?

[coreystinson]

As a retailer I concur with these comments. If a feature of a model cannot be made reliably (ie. too fragile) then it should not be made even if historical accuracy suffers slightly. The alternative is the huge nuisance of customers demanding returns for things they've broken out of a combination of carelessness and the product being a bit too fragile to begin with. Ultimately the manufacturer will end up reaping the 'reward' for poor decisions in this regard, but so will all the vendors. I am sure we all recall with clarity the disaster of the landing gear on 21st's first P-47.

aferg has already shed some light on the bomb bay doors, but I thought I might elaborate as well.

21st did make early prototype attempts to put the accurate bi-fold in the doors. They failed to work correctly from several points. 1. They were indeed too fragile. 2. In an open position they simply would not stay open in the bi-fold manner and they droppped down anyway. 3. because of the length of each door and the thin nature of the door itself the hinges would often come loose and the doors would fall off. 4. In the close position they looked really bad and never closed correctly to give it a nice finished look.