New XD and online retailers?

lsc1002 · Post by **lsc1002** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:05 am

Any word on if the online retailers, Badcat, Smalljoe or any of the other guys, will be getting the new XD stuff? I cannot believe the only one Hanomag ahs hit evilbay.

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:13 am

It would be great if this stuff went to the small retailers, and I'm sure most of it will eventually. Then again, there are always some pieces that slip through and never make it such as the non-RC M113s, COED Shermans, Desert Bradleys and a few others. Somewhere I heard that presumably Wal Mart had bought up all recent XD shipments, leaving it to be quite some time before the small retailers get dibs on the new stuff, but that was from a 3rd hand source and not very reliable, IMHO. Again, I'm sure most of the new products will be along to the small retailers here in a couple months...

Yoxford · Post by **Yoxford** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:52 am

I can only hope that 21st Century is feeling a pinch in the sales due to them cutting out the online retailers.

Volume wise, is seems WM will sell what they usually do, maybe a bit more, but most likely about the same. We still find WM that did not even bother to order any XD in spite of their “Exclusive inside supply”

What a joke and slap in the face of all the loyal supporters of their product. Was it worth it? Has it caused an increase of supply and demand?

I will not purchase a TBF Avenger from WM. (as if I will ever see one in the near future) I will wait for Bad Cat or Smalljoes.

flayrah · Post by **flayrah** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:04 am

When the WalMart XD deal was first announced two years (three?) ago, there was quite a lot of discussion about this being good or bad for the hobby. One side stated that without a large retailer, 21st and probably 1:18 military would probably die a slow death. The other argument was Wally has been accused, with other products, of attempting to corner the market, pushing manufacturers beyond their capacity, and then not following through with supply or customer demand. I'm not taking one side or the other - the stores here rarely have anything new so I couldn't buy if I wanted to.

Yoxford · Post by **Yoxford** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:14 am

Exactly…..without a big retailer, 21st Century would die a slow death. And I am glad they have the largest retailer in the world carrying their product line. I just think this deal, that cut out online retailers, has alienated quite a few in their loyal customer base. It has me.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:06 pm

Yoxford wrote:Exactly…..without a big retailer, 21st Century would die a slow death. And I am glad they have the largest retailer in the world carrying their product line. I just think this deal, that cut out online retailers, has alienated quite a few in their loyal customer base. It has me.

I have no problem with the big retailers, but when it makes the most loyal fans of XD frustrated in trying to get the newest release then it came become a problem. I think if they are going to cater to the big retailers then there should be some way for the Fans of XD to get their “FIX” on a new anticipated release. If not that anticipation and disappointment of not getting a particular item can and will hurt the Hobby.

Image this Wal-Mart gets an F-4 and an A-10 but only 4 members of this board can find one, the rest of us has to wait months to get our grubby hands on one….

The way I see it is if a company feels that large retailers are more important then the fans who buy their products are more important, then it show poor marketing skills of that company. It should not take months after they released them to get an Avenger, Mig, or Saber. To me that is ignoring the consumer,

Also I have read many instance where WM has ran small companies into the ground, due to WM.’s demand for cheaper whole sale prices

I don’t think the marriage will last long anyways.

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:30 pm

Along those lines... Wal Mart is the savior of 21c and XD, there is no other way to put it. Without its patronship and the fact that Wal Mart does get 21c products (well at least some) out all across the country, 21c would have disappeared 3 years ago when it was having financial difficulty and after TRU dropped the line. XD products get far greater coverage than they ever did at TRU.

21c, as one toy company among many, wants to cater to the general public and then to the collectors. Remember, people like us make up a very small minority compared with the bulk of people that buy toys at Wal Mart. Wal Mart has helped 21c tap into this mass retail market, which the small internet retailers cannot quite do by the very fact that they cater to a specialized audience - us. Nonetheless, it was us collectors that helped keep 21c afloat during its financial crisis, so the amount of our sales does indeed count.

Now, I totally agree with you that Wal Mart's distribution is crap. One store in some state gets a bunch of new stuff, while another store in another state gets nothing for a long time if at all. It hurts the hobby when one person in finds all the new stuff and no one else sees it for six months, if at all. (I hate hearing about "The next great product from 21c," when I know I stand a chance of never seeing it!) This ultimately constitutes lost revenue for 21c as obviously when their products are either rotting on a shelf somewhere or stuck in a warehouse awaiting distribution, no one is buying them.

To me, there is really an easy solution that will benefit all parties. 21c should sell their new products to the small retailers first and then to Wal Mart. There are some past examples where 21c did this, and it worked. This would satisfy our collector demand, while the bulk of the same products will then go to Wal Mart where the general public can get them. The overall total of sales going to the small retailers will not drastically hurt Wal Mart's XD profit margin (or even make a dent in the profits of the corporation as a whole) and will not alter the overall number of sales for 21c since we will still be purchasing the same products as will the general public. The small retailers will also benefit as they will be able to sell something new, that everyone hasn't already bought at Wal Mart.

Again, these are just my observations and suggestions, and they most certainly lack the insider perspective that someone in the mass retail market would better understand, but I think they do make sense and would certainly benefit all

Morian Miner · Post by **Morian Miner** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:40 pm

I wish the small retailers would get the new stuff.

I don't know if its the new hours I'm working, now having two kids, living further out of town, or what, but it seems like I can't find SH#$ anymore at stores. The Walmarts near me don't seem to get the new crap for months, if at all, and I just can't do the massive toy runs all over town to find stuff. And the more stores I go to and come up empty, the more

I get.

Maybe I'm just getting crotchety in my old age.

Rowsdower · Post by **Rowsdower** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:43 pm

tmanthegreat wrote:Now, I totally agree with you that Wal Mart's distribution is crap. One store in some state gets a bunch of new stuff, while another store in another state gets nothing for a long time if at all. It hurts the hobby when one person in finds all the new stuff and no one else sees it for six months, if at all. (I hate hearing about "The next great product from 21c," when I know I stand a chance of never seeing it!) This ultimately constitutes lost revenue for 21c as obviously when their products are either rotting on a shelf somewhere or stuck in a warehouse awaiting distribution, no one is buying them.

My feelings exactly!! I hope something can be done about this situation someday. It makes collecting very hard.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:09 pm

tmanthegreat wrote:
To me, there is really an easy solution that will benefit all parties. 21c should sell their new products to the small retailers first and then to Wal Mart. There are some past examples where 21c did this, and it worked. This would satisfy our collector demand, while the bulk of the same products will then go to Wal Mart where the general public can get them. The overall total of sales going to the small retailers will not drastically hurt Wal Mart's XD profit margin (or even make a dent in the profits of the corporation as a whole) and will not alter the overall number of sales for 21c since we will still be purchasing the same products as will the general public. The small retailers will also benefit as they will be able to sell something new, that everyone hasn't already bought at Wal Mart.

Again, these are just my observations and suggestions, and they most certainly lack the insider perspective that someone in the mass retail market would better understand, but I think they do make sense and would certainly benefit all

I agree something needs to be done, I like your idea but I don’t think it will work. For the most part WM will want more and more till 21st century factory are at running at full compacities. Then some time down the road WM will ask to get a cheaper whole sale price since they are buying most of their product. In which case 21st will start to operate with zero or little profit…It happens all the time with small family owned companies.
WM may have helped 21st century for the time being but in the end WM will devour 21st like all the rest of them.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:23 pm

I agree with all of these comments, and I guess I can add an "outsider" view. For guys like me who have no access to Wal Mart stores, etailers are our ONLY viable market place. I don't know what 21st's basic company plan is (in terms of market presence overseas). But by not having models readily available to online distributors they may be locking out alot of potential overseas sales.
There is only one store in my city that I know of that sells 21st's products. But with the XD stuka priced at $132US dollars and the XD Mutt at $66US dollars, you can see why I just laughed in their faces. There have also been some XD planes which have popped up on a popular New Zealand auction website, but these to are expensive (the recent bunker hill corsair going for a "buy now" price of $112US dollars, and thats including postage - I could order it online myself for under $100US INCLUDING shipping).
So basically, I'm disappointed that the etailers have been shut out by this WM buy-out. And I think alot of potential overseas customers have been left out. Just my thought......

holensock · Post by **holensock** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:17 pm

I would do the same thing by running from one WM to another on my day off-wasting my day off and gas and getting home empty handed.
As much as I'd LOVE to have the NEW XD, I came to a conclusion that if I can't buy it online, I'll just do without. It's not easy, but I have no choice as my local WM's would rather get in NOTHING or one or two XD and send ALL the rest to a few other WM's to sit on their shelves and then get clearanced out.
Smalljoes.com has been very good to me! I can order from him and it's at my door a couple of days later. I can then spend my day off enjoying my 1:18 instead of wasting the day looking for it at WM.

coreystinson · Post by **coreystinson** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:36 pm

Hey guys,

Didn't see this thread earlier, sorry.

The new U.S. halftrack, hanomags, and Pak-40 (1:18 scale) are coming soon - within a week or two.

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:43 pm

That's good to know! I already found the vehicles I wanted (save perhaps the Hannomag with the mounted Pak-40) but it is good to know 21c will be shipping the new stuff soon. These pieces, although only modifications from existing moulds, are pretty cool and its good to see that they will become much easier to get! Yes, they will cost more, but the difference in price & the shipping largely compensates for what would be spent on wasted gas and time

tankduel · Post by **tankduel** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:50 pm

Jay,the stuff that you say is in a store here (Hobby City) has been there for three years now. I know that because another bloke and I imported a wholesale lot and sold some to them but as you can see there is very little interest here so we gave it away.But if that's how you became interested in XD, then I guess you have me to thank for introducing you to this expensive hobby, you can pay homage with one of your ME 110's if you like,just kidding!
Someone else tried importing it a year ago and I ended up getting three planes on trademe real cheap.When I got them the original receipt was in the box, the guy lost a lot of dough on the deal + shipping from the US.
Our best hope is for BBI to expand their sales lines here.

Jay wrote:I agree with all of these comments, and I guess I can add an "outsider" view. For guys like me who have no access to Wal Mart stores, etailers are our ONLY viable market place. I don't know what 21st's basic company plan is (in terms of market presence overseas). But by not having models readily available to online distributors they may be locking out alot of potential overseas sales.
There is only one store in my city that I know of that sells 21st's products. But with the XD stuka priced at $132US dollars and the XD Mutt at $66US dollars, you can see why I just laughed in their faces. There have also been some XD planes which have popped up on a popular New Zealand auction website, but these to are expensive (the recent bunker hill corsair going for a "buy now" price of $112US dollars, and thats including postage - I could order it online myself for under $100US INCLUDING shipping).
So basically, I'm disappointed that the etailers have been shut out by this WM buy-out. And I think alot of potential overseas customers have been left out. Just my thought......

mediump · Post by **mediump** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:52 pm

coreystinson wrote:Hey guys,

Didn't see this thread earlier, sorry.

The new U.S. halftrack, hanomags, and Pak-40 (1:18 scale) are coming soon - within a week or two.

music to my ears, thanks for the update corey. I'm pleasantly surprized, I thought the Etailers would have to wait a while before they had these... smalljoes is one of my fav's... I was also curious whether smalljoes was going to get Avengers too... and 32x corsairs

holensock · Post by **holensock** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:32 pm

coreystinson wrote:Hey guys,

Didn't see this thread earlier, sorry.

The new U.S. halftrack, hanomags, and Pak-40 (1:18 scale) are coming soon - within a week or two.

This is GREAT news, Corey!!! I just bought a few more things from you and you can guarantee I'll be back for these!!! You've got a GREAT ONLINE store!!! I've saved so much time and gasoline shopping at your site!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!

Jay · Post by **Jay** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:43 pm

tankduel wrote:But if that's how you became interested in XD, then I guess you have me to thank for introducing you to this expensive hobby, you can pay homage with one of your ME 110's if you like,just kidding!

HA, so I can blame you!

Actually it may have been because of you. The first xd plane I laid eyes on was at 'Bigboystoys' and they had a small rc tank setup. They had some tanks for sale and I'm pretty sure they had one P-51 mustang for sale as well. And then there was the stuka that was in hobbycity that I was eyeing but yeah. It was quite expensive. In the end I picked up the stuka on trademe (and so it began). I can't really see how any retailer could effectively sell them in NZ without first buying them at a real discount, either that or somehow getting a real deal on the shipping (which as you probably know, is about the same price as a plane itself!). As of a few months ago, the XD mutt was still sitting in hobbycity going for $100NZ. Considering you can pick up Gate's 1/18th willys diecast jeep for about $50NZ it's little wonder it was just sitting there.
I do remember that guy selling them on trademe as well. They started off cheap with a low reserve but then they started to go up in price and for the buyer it just wasn't worth it (with the $20NZ on top for shipping).
We should start our own company!

As a side line I've actually been looking into the cost's of a cottage company dealing with parts and add-ons - we'll see. Anyway, the winter tiger and Günther Rall's 109 are hopefully on their way down here and I'm waiting for the avenger to pop up online because that will also find a new home here

luftpanzer · Post by **luftpanzer** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:40 pm

Hey Corey when did you get a preorder from 21st C on this stuff. I havnt gotten one yet. Be careful! A few online retailers I wont mention by name where claiming to get the Avengers back in June and got burned. I still havnt seen the preorders for those babys yet! I thank WM got all the 1st shipment in.

DocTodd · Post by **DocTodd** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:59 pm

I spoke to one online distributor recently and they said they are no longer going to order 21st C stuff because of the Walmart deal. They are not able to compete price wise. So the WM deal is hurting online retailers. But if WM buys the items upfront then 21st C will still stand to gain for now going through WM. I suspect in the long run it could kill the hobby though by frustrating alot of fans and their losing interest. WM has been pretty good about shutting out other businesses-but people keep shopping there because to many price is more important than anything else.
Todd

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:51 pm

Price on most things IS the most important factor.

In my house, four people eat the same breakfast cereal almost every day. That cereal in our local supermarkets run from $3.20 to $4.00. A trip once a week to Wally lets me buy that cereal at $2.49. Buying five to seven boxes of that cereal adds up. A dozen or more items saving three to five bucks apiece makes price important.

I shop at Wally.......I hate Wally but I'm there almost every week.

Why do I hate Wally? Anti Union? Sure, but I also hate Unions. Low wages paid to their emplooyees? Sure, but who cares? I've been low paid in jobs and when I got fed up, I left.....only the Army wouldn't let me go elsewhere for better price, but a job at Wallyworld is not indentured sertivude. I dislike Wally only because of their distribution system stinks for our 21C toys. That's the only reason....

I would love to buy through our etailers for a few buck more, if they had the stuff in stock, but outrageous shipping makes me feel like a fool and keeps me from doing more business with them. So mostly I'm stuck waiting for deals on eBay and that happens after the item has been out for a while. Patience.

With this Avenger, the guys that rushed to buy got screewed, if the screw holes bothers them. I've been there, bought 1/6 items on pre-order with no accurate preview of the gun, vehicle etc., and found it to be less than satisfactory. Hey, you'd think I'd learned my lesson, but nooooo, as soon as that item comes out I drool over the news and there comes my wallet again. This time I cancelled my Avenger pre-order and will wait.

TTT

holensock · Post by **holensock** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:57 pm

I don't get WM's distribution at all! You can go into 5 or more WM's here in the Cleveland area and find ALOT of The Corps stuff. All the same stuff! But you're lucky to find ONE XD of the same thing at just ONE WM, while the others have NOTHING!
That's why I've given up on WM. I won't make a special trip to look anymore. I'll wait for smalljoes.com to get it. 21C could probably SELL so much of this stuff if WM made it available to all...but I don't see that happening.
So if I can't buy it Online, I won't be buying it at all.

tankduel · Post by **tankduel** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:22 pm

Haha, yes, that was me at Big Boy's Toys.

Jay wrote:
tankduel wrote:But if that's how you became interested in XD, then I guess you have me to thank for introducing you to this expensive hobby, you can pay homage with one of your ME 110's if you like,just kidding!
HA, so I can blame you! Actually it may have been because of you. The first xd plane I laid eyes on was at 'Bigboystoys' and they had a small rc tank setup. They had some tanks for sale and I'm pretty sure they had one P-51 mustang for sale as well. And then there was the stuka that was in hobbycity that I was eyeing but yeah. It was quite expensive. In the end I picked up the stuka on trademe (and so it began). I can't really see how any retailer could effectively sell them in NZ without first buying them at a real discount, either that or somehow getting a real deal on the shipping (which as you probably know, is about the same price as a plane itself!). As of a few months ago, the XD mutt was still sitting in hobbycity going for $100NZ. Considering you can pick up Gate's 1/18th willys diecast jeep for about $50NZ it's little wonder it was just sitting there.
I do remember that guy selling them on trademe as well. They started off cheap with a low reserve but then they started to go up in price and for the buyer it just wasn't worth it (with the $20NZ on top for shipping).
We should start our own company! As a side line I've actually been looking into the cost's of a cottage company dealing with parts and add-ons - we'll see. Anyway, the winter tiger and Günther Rall's 109 are hopefully on their way down here and I'm waiting for the avenger to pop up online because that will also find a new home here

tpa05 · Post by **tpa05** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:16 pm

Look, it was hit or miss here in Tampa as well. This summer we had the Avenger, the newer Thunderbolts and Mustangs and all of the armour you could ever want. Now there's nothing.

While looking only at 1:18, there was one item that I happended to see at one the walmarts however. At one, and only one, I saw 1:6 scale weapons set from 21c. I purchased them since they looked pretty cool and would go with the 1:6 PTE figure I'd picked up for my son earlier that week. Well that was 5 months ago. Now I've got a mix of modern and WWII figures that (almost) mirrors my 1:18 collection. I've found (IMO) that in the 1:6 world that Dragon is the force to be reconned with. I've got 5 of their figures and I'm amazed, even weeks later, at how detailed they are. While nice however, I never would have purchased the figures had there been 1:18 stuff on the shelves. With this, I decided about 2 months ago to just stop wasting the gas.

So, should I thank 21c for sending me over to the 1:6 world (the dark side?)? I'm waiting anxiously for 4 more of my waffen-ss soldiers to come in the mail later this week. My son (and my soldiers) need some more bad guys to hunt down.

So thanks 21c, it was nice while it lasted....

Rowsdower · Post by **Rowsdower** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:37 am

Shoot here in Ocala, Fl we never even had any p-47s and the only Avenger I saw was on clearence with an open box and a bunch of stuff missing. Besides the crap special ops jeep and RC M113, the only vehicles I've seen are the M3 halftrack which I bought and a few Hanomags. Luckily I tried TRU again last week and scored a BBI Sherman which is a wicked toy.

I used to collect 1/6 and they are awesome but the damn things are just too big for my limited space. I mean ya can't hang em from the ceiling like planes. Well ya could but it would look kinda odd. Plus the price is a little too much.

I also hate WM for their crap XD distribution but I'm not giving up yet. Although If we don't get the Pak-40 Hanomag or at least the Pak-40 I might just jump ship.

Small Scale Military Headquarters

New XD and online retailers?

New XD and online retailers?

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