wouldnt the "alternative" aircraft sell just as we

GAU-8 · Post by **GAU-8** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:32 pm

i see many posts about the "are you going to release XXX aircraft?" and it made me think for a moment about the industry we are looking at.

i understand as a new company, you want to come out with something that sells, and makes good returns on the proudct. hence the P-51's and other popular items, being flooded into the market.

but couldnt the OPPOSITE make just as much money? "oh you can go to any other company and get a P-51..THEY ARE EVERYWHERE..but ONLY xxx brand makes XXXX model!!"

right?

since its SOMETHING DIFFERENT rather than tried and true, couldnt that work out better ?

KAMIKAZE · Post by **KAMIKAZE** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:56 pm

I think maybe Admiral Toys is addressing that very issue. Jason said himself that they are looking now at aircraft that they don't think the other guys will make to avoid flooding the market. The Zero illistrates this point fairly well.

Mark

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:05 pm

There is logic to your point but the problem is that they need to be able to sell many thousands of a plane to recover costs and make a reasonable profit. This means it has to be a desirable, marketable subject and have good repaint potential

So while a good many on this board may buy an Arado 196, would many thousand other people also buy it, is the question they have to be concerned about before making a new plane.

As Kamikaze said, i think Admiral is our best hope in this regard. They are setting themselves up to appeal more to the collector market and the collector market has broader tastes than joe toy buyer at WM or TRU.

Some subjects could sell well just on pure asthetics alone (eg a Macchi 202 or a Japanese Shinden), even if the buyer had no real knowledge about the plane he was buying but that would be the exception, not the rule.

As this hobbies continues to expand we will no doubt see a broader range of subjects..

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:08 pm

Is the Admiral company full of guys that hit the lottery and are just doing this for fun?

Or has Admiral hit on a manufacturer who can make these obscure models we love for prices that allow them to make some money?

I think the idea is great, 21C sticking to "popular" planes and vehicles and leave Admiral to make the planes AND vehicles we pine for.

Two things are necessary for this to happen:

1 - A "gentlemans agreement" that 21C does not produce the same models that Admiral is busting their buns to produce for collectors.....i.e. 21C not bring out a Me-262 in 1/18 while Admiral is doing the same. This first point is as likely to happen as Rush Limbaugh being Vice President...

2 - We, as collectors buy as much of the limited Admiral production as we can. I say this, not being related to anyone ay Admiral and in fact I have none of the Admiral models.....I do have the Me-262 on pre-order...enen a vehicle guy can get interested in something like the 262 or a Typhoon or what was that Ruskie tank killer plane?

TTT

digger · Post by **digger** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:21 pm

So far the most obscure AC have been done by 21c it seems. An F-104? Who'd put that at the top of any list? And a MiG? Popular and famous but again out on a bit of a limb. An A-1 though would mix it all up..

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:24 pm

yes both the Starfighter and the Mig are not what i would have expected to see released in 1/18.

The F-104 has sold pretty well as i understand it and the Mig seems popular, judging by prices on Ebay. So more obscure planes do seem to be popular. Hmm..............

TTT: Sturmovik

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:07 pm

They did make the Macchi 202 & 205, in 1:32 though...

Moth · Post by **Moth** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:26 pm

I would love to see obsure planes, they always seem the most beautifull to me.

Some good examples...

Ki-61
Yak-9
Mig-3
Razorback Mustangs
Do-335 (My favorite)
Henschel p.75
Henschel p.87
P-61 Black Widow (early version with top cannon)
DeHanilland Vampire/Venom
Douglas Skyray
Vought Crusader/Corsair II
English Electric Lightning
SAAB Viggen
F-111 Aardvark
Panavia Tornado
Dassault Rafale
That IJN plane that looks like the p.75, Kyshen or something, can never remember the name

That pretty much covers it

My opinon is that looks sell more than names, so I dont see the problem with obscure planes. A plane that a person never saw might even encourage him to buy it and look at it.

DocTodd · Post by **DocTodd** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:55 pm

I think there are a number of unusual planes that would be popular. It appears that the market is under estimated. I guess we will see what happens.
Todd

GAU-8 · Post by **GAU-8** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:50 am

well, so far it seems like people are/can be in favor for it.
I wont call myself a TRUE "collector" (yet). but i do intend to own as many 1/18th scale that i can.
like the reference to the MIG and 104. they arent on my TOP priority list. but i was pleasantly surpised when i saw them at walmart. after i did what i do best, I "picked my battles" with the wife... ..and came home with both.
but i see myself as a beginning collector. which means even if its "ugly..or not my taste..or im not into jets" im still going to get it. why? its part of a collection. collectors...like COLLECTIONS. or we wouldnt collect.

it doesnt bother me they are released into toy stores. they do need to make money, but im almost positive it is US!!!....going into the toy stores to BUY THEM for.....US! sure a few might be for kids/presents. so im thinking that if a GOOD ALTERNATIVE. came out, the sales would still be pretty close the same as a "tried and true"

there are many criteria, and variables that could be "point/cointer point"about, but i think the idea would have a pretty good outcome.

OR (i just thought about this..i have no idea about the bad points yet.....im sure some of you will clue me in)
at LEAST have BBI, 21st or the others have an official vote on thier website, every year of several choices (like 2 out of 8 possible)for the upcomming years ahead.
"for 2009, you would like to see... (pick two)"
and then offer a selection of maybe 8 to 20 possibles.... and from there, manufacture the 2 or 3 best from the top of the vote list.

digger · Post by **digger** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:36 am

Funny you say that about a vote because when Mike first came on here we voted on a bunch of stuff and bbi followed through on some with hopefully more to come. The Zero was definitely the request of fans for a while, but we also asked for modern regulars which have shown up with paras and hopefully soon without.

I think we also voted pretty strong for a Dauntless..

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:03 am

Hint, hint.....Dauntless, yes. Now that would added to my extremely small "air force", without a doubt.

TTT

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:00 am

the 21st planes that have been obscure in my eyes are as follows

1:18
FW-190D-9 (I would have expected an A)
F-104 Starfighter
MiG-15 BIS
Avenger (while we have had a while to get used to this idea it was not one I had expected at all)

1:32
Macchi 202 & 205

So I guess my point is this... You just never know what 21st is going to do next. Who knows what is in store for 07. some of the ideas I have heard floating around the last year or 2 have been WILD! They always have something up the sleeve though.

as for the 21st me 262... it is for sure a green light. over a year now has been spent in development. The 262 project has just started to be pulled from the shadows at 21st R&D and I am now aware that there is one specific feature that nobody will expect that will set the 21st 262 apart from any other swallow.

I hope that 21st will let AREA-21 put up some intel on it soon. So far I have to hold off as I await further details and hopefully pictures!

GAU-8 · Post by **GAU-8** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:45 pm

thanks for the input guys. while fairly new here, i apoligise if this type of thread has cropped up every couple of weeks, and im the 300th one in 8 months.
im still weeding thru here, as much as i can. again, THANKS for the friendly and great respsonses. with the new info provided..i have more threads to "easter egg hunt" for..which is kinda cool

scbvideoboy · Post by **scbvideoboy** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:52 pm

as for the 21st me 262... it is for sure a green light. over a year now has been spent in development. The 262 project has just started to be pulled from the shadows at 21st R&D and I am now aware that there is one specific feature that nobody will expect that will set the 21st 262 apart from any other swallow.

I hope that 21st will let AREA-21 put up some intel on it soon. So far I have to hold off as I await further details and hopefully pictures!

That's either a full engine and removable cones or...the kettengrad pull tractor as a accessory...or a ME163 Komet packaged with the 262 as a special "German Secret Weapons" tie in complete with DVD of the 2 hour TV show and box artwork with hand autograph of last surviving Me 262 pilot

DH

GAU-8 · Post by **GAU-8** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:10 pm

funny, i was thinking something about the engines as well. i wasnt exactly sure about, what "it" would be,but figured it had to be engine related.

which remeinds me of another subject for me to post about (if it hasnt been covered)

nfafan · Post by **nfafan** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:28 pm

tko211 wrote:<SNIP>
So I guess my point is this... You just never know what 21st is going to do next. Who knows what is in store for 07. some of the ideas I have heard floating around the last year or 2 have been WILD! They always have something up the sleeve though.

<SNIP>

Silently waiting in eternal hope for a JU-88A4 in 1/18th!

flayrah · Post by **flayrah** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:33 pm

I think the more 'obscure' models might actually sell better then 'familiar' pieces just because they are different. To be honest, I would think not that many casual buyers actually know that much about any historical model they are buying - they just like the looks of it. And anything that looks different than what the buyer expects, might result in sales. The Corsairs fly off the shelves here, and I think that has more to do with the gull wing and far-back-sitting canopy, rather than there might be a big group of Corsair fans living in this area!

bigsarge · Post by **bigsarge** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:25 am

I honestly don't see how any of the companies make money on these models in this scale.Some of the 1/24th scale planes go for way more that the 1/18th.I know they mass produce these things and send them to wal mart who buys in bulk and then puts it on clearence when they don't sell.I just don't understand how they make money on them.Oh and lets not forget the ebay planes.I have sold lots of these on ebay and made good money.But there again my overhead cost was low and there seemed to be more intrest in these planes before,than there is now.I love the scale and the detail they put into all of the planes.I want one of each maybe even two of some.Thats my 2cents worth.Maybe I should write a rap song and call myself 2cents......

Bigsarge

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wouldnt the "alternative" aircraft sell just as we

wouldnt the "alternative" aircraft sell just as we

well

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