Which sells, German or Allied stuff

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:41 am

OK, OK, now we have seen the reaction to both new 1/18 releases from 21C.

We have 100% positive on the M-16 while around 50% positive on the German engineer half-track.

Does this go against the iron rule by manufacturers that German stuff will sell better than Allied? Is this telling us something?

OR:

1- Is it just that the M-16 is just sooooo cool?

2- Are we just a biased crowd?

3- Is this M-16 just a blue moon rare instance where a manufacturer just does something that "clicks" and will "fly off the shelves" (I hate to use that expression because we overuse it to try to sell our points).

4- Another reason?

Your opinion.

TTT

flpickupman · Post by **flpickupman** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:14 am

In the eyes of a casual WWII buff the M16 is a classic variant, while the Pioneerwagen is much more obscure. If 21st had come out with a Kanonenwagen 251/9 for example, I suspect there would have been a better reception. Probably not as positive as the M16, but certainly better than what the Pioneerwagen got.

exether_mega · Post by **exether_mega** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:33 am

a certain love for firepower instead of pioneer ? Or a less spectacular aspect of the pioneerwagen (just a little gun and two bridge part added).

Take care.

phil

KAMIKAZE · Post by **KAMIKAZE** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:17 am

I think it's a question of firepower also. The quad 50 halftrack should do a lot better in sales. However, if 21st had cranked out a Hanomag with the pak 40
anti-tank gun on it, I think the German halftrack would outsell the American one in that instance.

Mark

Moth · Post by **Moth** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:33 am

I think the "standard" buyer at Wal-mart is more likely to buy American tanks, trucks, and planes. I am a bit partial to the Nazi tanks, trucks, and planes because they were usually better, and I find that nearly everything they made was beautiful, exeption to Brummbar, Ostwind, and the Blohm&Voss asyemetrical planes. I do not support the Nazis, I just like their technology more than most Allied technology, with exeptions of course, the T-34, SU-152, P-38, P39, P-47RB, P-51 and B-29

In all, I would rather buy something German than American, but I really like the Quad.50 Halftrack, the new Hanomag is nice too, but they could-of made something better

MK · Post by MK » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:47 am

I am more apt to buying American armor than German. I sold off most of my German armor aside from my Series 1 Tiger. For some reason German armor doesn't excite me too much. I will be getting the M16 halftrack but not the bridge layer Hanomag.

KAGNEW · Post by **KAGNEW** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:59 am

on these 2 i think i'll get 1 German and at least 4 USA M16s

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:09 am

I really like the obscurity of the German half track. I will be buying one of each.

I do prefer the German armor over American simply due to the Awe factor it has. The Sherman is a cute little tank but sitting next to a Tiger it looks like fodder for the beast. If they start making more American tanks and vehicles I will buy them too. I just try to keep my forces equal as much as possible. Right now My Japanese troops are at a huge disadvantage. They only have two planes and no armor.<a href="http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=Z ... xmk788YYUS" target="_blank"><img src="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_1_12v.gif" alt="Smiley Shell" border="0"></a>

digger · Post by **digger** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:15 am

I think it is a mistake to use the two recent announcements to gauge interest in Axis v. Allied armor. Clearly the M16 has been more well received. But that does not change the fact that there is NO DOUBT - ZERO - that German stuff is more popular than US when it comes to WWII models/diecast/toys.

To use Dragon as an example once again, they did German armor out the rear in 1/72 before even 1 piece of US. They have done German armor in 1:144 as well. Their first piece of 1/35 pre-built? Tiger. No coincidence. They know what they are doing so we cannot say they are completely off base. Further, when we had an armor poll I think the KingTiger destroyed most other comers. To me this makes no sense - the KT was few in numbers and saw limited action but people just love the idea. I rather have a T-34, Hellcat or Stuart b/f a KT, but I can't argue with the masses.

Other anecdotal evidence is on ebay - see what German lots go for v. US lots - in any scale. I know this post will annoy people who will say that the companies are just not giving Allied armor a chance, but the fact is all these companies cannot be wrong about the market. I suspect if there was no stigma attached to Nazi pieces we would see even more German stuff - hell, bbi might have made a KT instead of a Sherman in 1:18.

normandy · Post by **normandy** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:40 am

I was a little disappointed to hear the first release was going to be the Pioneerpanzerwagen and not the King Tiger, other than that I think the panzerwagen is a great choice.

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:03 am

German armor is always going to be very popular. In TTT's example he is comparing one of the cooler Allied vehicles (the quad .50's are nearly as cool as a flakvierling) with probably the dullest german vehicle i can think of. Honestly, i am hard pressed to think of a less interesting german vehicle than the bridge laying hanomag.

If the Hanomag had been a Stuka zu fuss or drilling or pak 40 armed variant then it would be a much fairer comparison. The quad 50 US halftrack is a neat vehicle, near the cream of the allied crop.

STUKA · Post by **STUKA** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:11 am

I'm happy with the new stuff -
Thses companies have to make money in order to begin a giant project such as the KT.

I believe the german vehicles sell better and the american planes sell better.
Why planes - easy the small market was flooded with german planes because we begged for German planes. So now when we see a new american plane it will sell much faster than the German repaint. This will change when the 262 arrives.
Armor wise -
when I was a kid I checked out a tank book and pulled out my pencil and art markers and drew the tanks. I remember drawing a sherman and about 10 other foreign or German tanks - why because they looked cooler.
usually packed more a punch - and as some one else in the forum said just awed me a bit more.
Besides Cobra vehicles are just too small.

zonetoys · Post by **zonetoys** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:21 am

I praise anything 21st wants to release in armor! As a transplanted Kraut I prefer U.S. armor over German, growing up around both, and back in the days when you could climb all over (inside and out) the armor at APG.
The Germans had always had the early lead in mechanical technology right down to their tin windup toys. The new M16 is a major plus to the 1:18 line! If you ever read the book "Death Trap" it might make one appreciate the U.S. effort to keep armor on the battlefield.

Armor over Planes anytime!

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:50 am

I guess it all boils down to the fact that I am just too patriotic, having two grandfathers that fought in WWII, to buy much of the German stuff. But, each to their own.

Too patriotic? Both of mine fought in the same war. How many Americans do you think died in those cheaply built, less than adequately armored Sherman’s? They did the job they were intended to do but they were not on par with a German Tiger. You don’t have to be more patriotic to buy American tank toys. <a href="http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=Z ... xmk788YYUS" target="_blank"><img src="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/14/14_1_29.gif" alt="Flag 2" border="0"></a>

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:14 pm

JasonNC and toyktdlgh: your last posts have been deleted. I don't want to see repeat offenses from either of you. These forums are for talking about toys, not exchanging insults. Settle your differences by pm, email or, just let it go.

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:17 pm

Sorry Andrew, didnt mean to cause a stink. I just got my back up on that last comment. It wont happen again.

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:58 pm

My collection is mostly German, because that's basically what's flooding the market!

Although I'm a self-proclaimed Shermie freak. I have 1 21st Century M4 Sherman, 1 BBI M4A3 105mm Sherman, and because I can't get enough Sherman, I combined BBI and 21st parts to make a M4A3 75mm Sherman!!! I'd worship anyone if they make a M4A1 76mm Sherman....

So yeah, I'm very excited about the M-16!!!! It takes me back when I was a little kid and I saw an M16 for the first time...all I could think of was, "Holy crap, FOUR .50 caliber guns?!"

steelbonnet · Post by **steelbonnet** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:20 pm

Well I don`t think you can say Allies as we`ve yet to see any other than US troops really.

Yea Airplane wise you have British too though Armour & Figures well it`s the US vs Germany at present though I`m truely hoping we`re going to see British troops & those who want Soviet those too.

Then between Soviet,British & US troops & Armour we can customize pretty much most of the Allied forces then

Ja
Steel Bonnet

KAGNEW · Post by **KAGNEW** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:44 pm

how about a Bren carrier for the brits? then if that sells how about that big Brit tank that was the only Allied tank that could go toe to toe with the German monsters. i can't think of it's name

scbvideoboy · Post by **scbvideoboy** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:29 pm

KAGNEW wrote:how about a Bren carrier for the brits? then if that sells how about that big Brit tank that was the only Allied tank that could go toe to toe with the German monsters. i can't think of it's name

I believe the Churchill? That's just too ugly to sell. I would LOVE to see a Centurion tank, I built a Tamiya 1/25 one with RC a long time ago.

Or a Matilda, desert scheme of course.

The Hanomag needs to be towing something!

I have a note for 21C, just copy all of Tamiya's 1/35 armor models in 1/18, and everybody will be happy

Dave

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:38 pm

Oh the Churchill almost had as thick of a hide as a Tiger, but it's main armament sucks. Maybe you're talking about the Firefly? Afterall, one Firefly knocked out Whittman's entire platoon in an ambush, and killed the much lauded panzer ace. So bring on the Fireflies!!!!

Oh, someone's making a 1/16 Churchill kit....drool.

I forgot the name of the company, but I've heard they are pretty good. God, I just want a large-scale Brit tank for once!!!!!!!!

How about a Firefly, please 21st? Pretty please? It wouldn't be that hard of a conversion.

digger · Post by **digger** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:29 pm

What would it take to turn a 21st Sherman into a firefly? Most Firefly that I have seen have two hatches on top of the turret instead of one. If they were to redo the entire turret I don't think it would be a small task - all for another Sherman with a bigger gun.

If there is one thing we have is Shermans...I would rather the mold be made into a Priest or similar gun carriage. Something a little more exciting, or as some say "sexy"

After all, if it is an easy conversion - EDIT, someone did one - maybe we should leave that up to the individual collector to do on their own. Scratch building a Panzerbuchse 41 Anti-Tank gun I think is a taller order.
In fact, what would it take for bbi to convert their Sherman into a Firefly? Maybe that's who you should be begging.

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:41 pm

I realize that the German stuff is more popular, but it really makes me mad to think that there are so many great American vehicles (M7, M10, DUKW, 6X6 GMC and Chevrolets, towed 155mm, M5 Stuart, etc.) that may never see the light of day

I couldn’t agree more. It is a shame that we don’t have more of these great vehicles. I actually have more Sherman’s than Tigers in my collection but I think it’s the fear factor that makes the German stuff sell better. Kind of like all the girls hanging around the bad boys at prom. There’s just something about them. I do hope we get a Stewart someday soon. It’s probably one of my favorites and would do well with a nice little Japanese Type 97. Boy, now I am dreaming.

Small Scale Military Headquarters

Which sells, German or Allied stuff

Which sells, German or Allied stuff

armor

:)

:)

firefly