Small Scale Military Headquarters

Just saw a Military Channel show on the Avenger. During the show the narrator said the Avenger had a crew of three, Pilot, Rear Gunner and "Bombardier". At another point in the show he says the Bombardier used the Norton bombsight to drop bombs when the plane was carrying bombs or depth charges.

This is some news to me.

I thought the third crewman was the radio operator, not the bombardier. The radio compartment was in the rear belly and the radio man operated the rear facing .30cal. The radio compartment had side facing windows but I was not aware he had any vision facing forward. I can't see how he could have used a Norton bombsight.

The Pilot had a fixed sight on the instrument panel for torpedo firing and I have always assumed he dropped bombs and depth charges by using "Kentucky windage".

Who is right, me or the Military Channel?

I was wrong once, so it's possible I'm wrong this time. With the Avenger still circling in the Bermuda Triangle, lookiomg to come in a landing sometime in Wally or in a few of our etailers. I thought you guys would know.

TTT

It was mentioned somewhere else that the Avenger originally had the Norden bombsight, but since it was never really used in the level bombing role, his position was changed to the rear gunner. The bombardier covered the ventral gun when he was used.......

-Ski

The radio operator has multiple roles, including rear ventral gunner, and bombadier. Norden bombsights were used in the Atlantic against U-boats I think, but most pilots didn't use them, because they get better accuracy with other methods.

I think the Norden bombsight was of limited use in the Avenger, and maybe only a few Avengers where outfitted with the thing.

The Avenger had a small window at the rear of the bomb bay, which, when the doors were open, would allow the bombadier/radio operator/ventral gunner to see down & forward. This would be the logical position for the Norden bombsight to be placed, when it was used. It also looks like this small window will be replicated on the 21c Avenger, at least according to this Area21 image of the XD Avenger prototype



The little window is to the far right, near the end of the torpedo at the rear of the bomb bay.

I feel the small window at the rear of the bomb bay was to insure all ordance had actually been droped and was not hung up.

All ordance had this anoying habit of getting hung up once in a while. It was standard procedure when something got hung up to go thru all kinds of dives, turns etc., to try to dislodge the weapon. Captain's of carriers demanded that no plane was to land with hung up ordance and if the pilot could not dislodge the ordance, then they took a dip. This in itself was doubly dangerous as the force of a sea landing could cause the ordance to go boom.

The show on the Avenger had an interview with a vet who flew an Avenger in WW2 and when his torpedo got hung up, he attacked the Japanese cruiser a second time by himself (his flight droped their torpedo's and went home). Not a good feeling with every AA gun trying to get him alone. The torpedo failed a second time and he went back to his carrier and only with repeated assurances that the torpedo was not hung up but was held fast was he allowed to land on the carrier.

The Norton bombsight was a vertical bombsight, no use at an angle as mounted in the radio compartment. In addition the radio operator would not be needed as a bombadier when the ordance was a torpedo. The plane would be flying too low to see anything. I can see a Bombadier being used with bombs and depth charges so I guess I'll concede the point.

By the way, the show did talk about Poppa Bush being shot down while level bombing a Japanese radar station and AA brought him down and killed his crew. The film of him actually being rescued by one of our subs and clearly seeing Poppa is sure inspiring. A covering Corsair actually dove on and destroyed a Japanese patrol boat trying to get to Poppa. What ifs abound.

TTT

TTT, saw the show - you touched on exactly what I remembered about that poor bastard trying to convince the carrier to let him land

The footage of the carrier crew pulling out wounded/dead ball gunners was intense as well - that guy had it bad in the Avenger, and was always the first target for enemy AC. Then if he's wounded and the pilot bails....you get the idea. I think that is what happened to Bush's crew.

I was just waiting for an ad for the 21st Avenger to come on. Didn't happen.