21st Century Panther---fictional?

[dragon53]

Is this 21st Century Panther based on a real Panther?

If so, what is the unit and additional history?


Link: http://www.sshqdb.com/18/displayimage.p ... play_media

[tmanthegreat]

Well... the turret numbers identify it as the 3rd vehicle from the 1st Platoon of the 4th company of some German Wehrmacht (or perhaps SS) Panzer Division.

German tank ID numbers usually follow this pattern:
4 = Company number (4th company)
1 = Platoon number (1st platoon)
3 = Vehicle number (3rd vehicle)

Without a Divisional marking, its a bit difficult to tell the division straight-out...

It can be a bit of an art to read and decipher the German markings, especially compared to the more efficient US number/letter designation. I found this site to be pretty helpful in understanding how to read WWII German tactical signs: http://www.schwimmwagen.ch/english/tacticalSigns_E.html.

Further, I've heard the cammo on the S1 XD Panther tank referred to as "Normandy cammo" and think it was likely a tank stationed on the Western Front. However, in the early days, 21c had the tendency to make things that looked good, but weren't necessarily accurate to something real. Think the "Laura Michelle" P-51, "Samantha Payton" P-38, S1 Stuka, etc.

[dragon53]

TMANTHEGREAT:

Thanks for the info.
There was a Panther #413 that was knocked upside down after an air strike during the Battle of the Bulge, so I was wondering if the 21st Century #413 was the same Panther.
Also, didn't 21st Century also release a 1/32 Panther #413?......If so, is it the same as the 1/18 Panther and are there any photos of the 1/32 #413?

[[CAT]CplSlade]

Only pic I could find. The paint is not quite the same as on the larger tank.

The only other Panthers I could find are the 101, 411, 421 (I have this one) and an unnumbered one in an ambush scheme.

[dragon53]

[CAT]CPLSLADE:

Thanks for the photo. Unfortunately, I can't find a good photo of the real Panther #413 to compare it to the two 21st Century models, but I'm still looking.

[normandy]

The jsi Panther seems to be based on a known late war paint scheme.



Not necessarily this particular photo.

[tmanthegreat]

TMANTHEGREAT:

Thanks for the info.
There was a Panther #413 that was knocked upside down after an air strike during the Battle of the Bulge, so I was wondering if the 21st Century #413 was the same Panther.
Also, didn't 21st Century also release a 1/32 Panther #413?......If so, is it the same as the 1/18 Panther and are there any photos of the 1/32 #413?

It always could be... Can you post a copy of the picture? If the numbers are of the same font and the cammo scheme looks similar-enough, it could be the same tank. I did note earlier that the cammo on the 21c S1 Panther had a Western-Front look, which would fit with the Battle of the Bulge.

[dragon53]

TMANTHEGREAT:

This photo shows #413 upside down after an airstrike.

Link: http://www.flickriver.com/photos/deckarudo/5410604366/

[tmanthegreat]

Thanks Dragon! Here's the WWII photo:



As its a B&W photo of an upside-down tank partially covered in snow, its hard to tell the exact colors, but one can make out a cammo pattern around the 413 numbers on the left side of the turret that looks like it could be composed of three different tones - likely green, tan base, and a darker border color like black.

The S1 21c Panther also has a 3-tone cammo, but the pattern around the turret numbers on the left side of the turret on the 21c tank does not match that in the photo. The 21c tank has a much lighter base coat and the cammo is more splotchy, whereas the historical tank seems to have a darker base color and the cammo is not as spotty... The number font on the 21c Panther seems different as well.

I took a couple of crude "reconstruction" shots using my 21c Panther, both in color and in B&W:





Even though my digital "film" quality is much better than the WWII picture, you can still see the differences in the cammo and number font in the historical and recreated photos.

After all this, I really don't have enough info to say the actual Panther and the 21c S1 Panther are the same tanks. There are still to many uncertain variables... Besides, in the early days, 21c was prone to take liberties and make accurate-looking, but fictitious paint schemes.

It is very possible that the actual vehicle could have been repainted - so the 21c example is the same tank, but as it appeared earlier, prior to winter 1944-45. Its also a strong possibility that there were other tanks in other Panzer Divisions that had Panther tanks with 413 on the turret side (413 was simply a number identifying the company, platoon, and vehicle) - and that would mean the real tank may not be the 21c tank.

It would be great if in the WWII photo, a divisional emblem was visible - and if one had been included on the 21c vehicle. That would rest the case right there

[dragon53]

TMANTHEGREAT:

Thanks very much for your photographic reconstruction of the Panther---it's really cool.
I was thinking about getting the 21st Century #413, but its paint scheme didn't look like the real #413. You saved me some bucks.

[graycap]

The photograph of the knocked-out and overturned Panther appears in Armor Battles of the Waffen-SS by Will Frey (Stackpole Books, paperback 2003). The caption identifies the vehicle as being from SS-Panzer Regiment 1, the panzer element of 1st SS Panzer Division Leibstandarte and therefore almost certain from Kampfgruppe Peiper.