21C, Wally and us

[Threetoughtrucks]

The way things are in the real world, Wallyworld is the prime contractor for 21C to sell any scale of toy.

With sales more than the GNP of many, many countries in the world, Wally is the boss and 21C is the lowly worker.

We all have our ideas for production, this board wants 1/18 planes and armor, vehicles and artillery. We also want 1/32 stuff, even 1/6 and 1/9 stuff all made by 21C.

Complaining or telling 21C of what we would like to see, I feel is a waste of time. Nothing is going to be produced by 21C without Wally giving them the OK to go ahead.

Should we be involved in a letter writing or e-mail campaign asking Wally to have 21C produce the things we feel would sell (which of course just happens to be what we want)????

Your thoughts?

TTT

[pilotman]

I think we'd probably have as less influence on walmart than we do on 21c.
After looking around this forum for a short time it seems we are a core bunch of collecters and dealers who comprise a large chunk of sales for these products.
As usual, its the bottom line baby, but I think as much direct contact with 21c & BBI would serve us well in getting those model lines we all want into production.
F-14, F-14, F-14, F-14 PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE.

[tmanthegreat]

Wal Mart, like any large multi-national corporation, doesn't have a good track record when it comes to listening to the little guy on the street - especially if its a bunch of grown men complaining about toys. While I agree that Wal Mart is certainly 21st Century Toys' prime contractor (and financial savior) they do not dominate all of its efforts.

As far as what we dream for in all scales of armor and aircraft, it really becomes a question of is what 21c itself feels it will be able to sell. Wal Mart executives could probably care less about whether or not 21c makes an F-104 or an ME-163 Komet, an M1 Abrams or a Type 95 Ha-Go (WWII Japanese light tank) and will probably not dictate such matters to 21c. What the Wal Mart Execs do want is 21c to make something that will sell, so that is perhaps why 21c chooses to produce what it does and not always what we would want.

[laughinggravy2]

The "adult collector" is a great minority in the market.

Especially in terms of product on shelves at WalMart, the impulse buyer or "Mommy, me want that", is much higher on the food chain.

Toy companies are constantly beseiged with "adult collector's" wants and desires, with corresponding "perfect and logical" reasons for producing said items, with often disastrous results regarding sales. The "Make these and I'll buy ten" crowd more often than not buys none.

It's a fine line between manufacturers who have to make decisions over a several-tens-of-thousands-of-dollars(sometimes even more than that) mold system for a toy that may be hit or miss, versus the adult collector who has ridiculous pre-conceived notions over an industry they have no knowledge of. The day that both can see eye-to-eye we will all be the better for it.

It's easy for an online community to entice a manufacturer with "You could easily sell hundreds of XYZs", and feel it to be a legitimate claim. But, when a manufacturer deals with units in the several-thousands, those hundreds are laughable and won't even cover costs.

If EVERYBODY on the board could be serious for a few minutes, and honestly contribute to a list of "How many Corsairs, 109s, Tigers, Shermans, etc., etc., etc., do you own", I predict we could account for less than one thousand of each. Where, then, are the vast majority of these thousands of units produced going? Impulse buyers, or kids. After all, these are to be found in the toy aisle. And my guess is that most of those kids or their soccermoms couldn't care less about rivet detail or proper paint schemes.

[Jericoeagle1]

Lets see how many multiples do I have...

(4) 109's (Way too many of these)
(3) P-40B/C's (I'd buy a Russian one if it came out too)
(4) P-47D's (3 Razor and 1 bubbletop no more of these no matter who makes it)
(3) P-51D's (I'll buy the new 21st Mustang just to have one when it is available)
(2) F4U Corsairs (no more for me unless a Korean one comes out)
(1) F-104 (I'm waiting for the Barvarian Version to acquire my second one)

I have 1 each of every other model that has come out. The only aircraft I can see myself buying multiples of in the future would be an A-10, F-4, P-39, Skyraider (Definately an Air Force and Navy Intrepid Scheme).

[Threetoughtrucks]

Lg2:

I agree with you. I guess we must face the fact that we are a fringe market.

But, how do you explain 21C producing the Avenger? If we ever see it I doubt it will be a favorite of the "Buy that for me, Monmmy" crowd. Or, how about the 21C producing the "Heros" or whatever it was called series of the detailed planes.

Once in a while 21C will continue to throw a bone to us and make something we want.

21C, threw me a bone in the Dodge and I snapped it up, they threw me a bone in the 1/6 Kett w/trailer and I snapped it up. The last bone they threw was the 1/9 Abrams and I'll snap ikt up was soon as they take care of business with that one, probably more than one to make one into a 1/6 Panzer III.

We take what we can get and we are all standing like Oliver, with our bowl saying "More sir"

TTT

[Rogue]

So how do you explain the Zero?

I can't see grandpa buying his greatgrands a Zero, WM or not.

We certainly did enough bitching to get one, and now the same with A-10's.

They (21st/BBi) must be listening.

[luftpanzer]

What if 21st C made a collectors Series in smaller Numbers and a higher price to be sold at hobby shops and specialty stores and on line retailers.

[DocTodd]

What if 21st C made a collectors Series in smaller Numbers and a higher price to be sold at hobby shops and specialty stores and on line retailers.

That is an interesting idea-I wonder if they would consider it.
Todd

[digger]

The "Make these and I'll buy ten" crowd more often than not buys none.

Ain't that the truth. It's because they are often the pickiest. We whined for so long for a Panzer IV and then when it didn't have skirts that was an excuse not to buy it. Now it's a year later and I guess some of those people still don't have one. Or, "if the 21st tank came like that, I'd buy.... " Sure you would. It would be twice as much $, and you wouldn't pay $40 for one now, but you'd buy SO many if...

The bbi Sherman is another example - it is a different model than 21st, it has a ton of cool features, but people still resisted because they had 2 M4s already or the tank was not marked down. That thing should have burned shelves after all the talk we did about how we needed a different model Sherman....

[KAGNEW]

my problem is, if it 1/18 or has wings (1/32,1/72& 1/18)
it goes home with me.
my list of 1/18 airplanes
are
1/18 at least 2 of all they make
plus 4 P-51s,4 Fw-190s,3 P-38s, 5 Hueys,3 F-104s, 3 F-18s& 16s etc.
in 1/32 one of everything they make
i never collected 1/18 armor before, but now have one of all i've seen
impulse buyer wife says

[corpbob]

Wal Mart, like any large multi-national corporation, doesn't have a good track record when it comes to listening to the little guy on the street - especially if its a bunch of grown men complaining about toys. While I agree that Wal Mart is certainly 21st Century Toys' prime contractor (and financial savior) they do not dominate all of its efforts.

As far as what we dream for in all scales of armor and aircraft, it really becomes a question of is what 21c itself feels it will be able to sell. Wal Mart executives could probably care less about whether or not 21c makes an F-104 or an ME-163 Komet, an M1 Abrams or a Type 95 Ha-Go (WWII Japanese light tank) and will probably not dictate such matters to 21c. What the Wal Mart Execs do want is 21c to make something that will sell, so that is perhaps why 21c chooses to produce what it does and not always what we would want.

I couldn't agree more. If 21st products sell, WM will be their best buddies. If the sales die, WM will cut them off and set them adrift. This is why I'm a firm believer 21st has to be prudent in catering to us serious collectors. A lineup of P-39s, Swordfish, and Raidens would please us but bring about a result we don't want, namely an end to a decent amount of availability (not to mention affordability) when sales lag and WM says goodbye.

[pcb122605]

I couldn't agree more. If 21st products sell, WM will be their best buddies. If the sales die, WM will cut them off and set them adrift. This is why I'm a firm believer 21st has to be prudent in catering to us serious collectors. A lineup of P-39s, Swordfish, and Raidens would please us but bring about a result we don't want, namely an end to a decent amount of availability (not to mention affordability) when sales lag and WM says goodbye.

I think WM needs to improve their distribution in a BIG way if they want to keep this line alive. I live in the suburbs of Philadelphia (a pretty large city mind you) and I have found figures at exactly ONE WM in the whole time they have been the primary distributor, which is what - 2 or 3 years now. All of the WM near me have one or two of the planes (older versions that have sat around for at least 1-2 years still at full price). The vehicles are also very hit and miss, with no one store having any kind of comprehensive selection. I don't collect aircraft, nor do I have the room for many anyway, but I do like the vehicles and figures. At 1:18 scale, this is a scale that needs lots of figures to work, just look at Star Wars and GI Joe. If kids and collectors don't have troops to put around their planes, tanks, and jeeps, why continue collecting? I get the impression they just don't care if the line succeeds. I'd love it if 21st just reopened their own online store - like Hasbro has done. That seems to be doing quite well.

[Threetoughtrucks]

PCB:

The whole problem is that Wally DOES NOT have to improve their distribution setup. They do what works for them. Not us.

Wally does not HAVE to keep 21C on their shelves. 21C needs Wally more than Wally can use 21C to increase sales in one single section of one small department. Outside of holiday sales, Wally does not pay a lot of attention to toys. Next time you are in a Wally look at the size of the toy department compared to the snack food section, much less the clothes, appliances department, etc., etc.

Somewhere in Wally's vast computer center is a record of every single item, recorded at every sale. Replacement of sold items from the distribution center is automatic, IF the individual store manager wants the sales in that department to continue. The individual store manager is King. Of course, he doesn't remain King long if sales drop in his store drop far or for a long period.

I also would like to see 21C using direct sales through the fan club as an e-store but Wally, being a quarter trillion in sales Godzilla, may have something to say about that and 21C will listen.

TTT

[digger]

I also would like to see 21C using direct sales through the fan club as an e-store...TTT

This would be awesome. With so many 1/18 AC now bought/sold online it is almost comical the profit the middle-man makes when he just unloads the container into the UPS truck, never even bringing the goods inside Perhaps the companies consider doing some DTC although I know logistically it is tough. I'm not even asking for a price break, but if 21st/bbi got retail prices for their stuff maybe we would see more items that are feared as low volume sellers. Oh, and if there was DTC from bbi I would be a pig in ....with those new figures.

[BELTxFED]

I think these models are intended & sell well to adult men who see these at Wal Mart & buy them impulsively. The combination of low cost, quality & novelty does the trick. I think its a mistake to stock 50 Huey's, but a few of a few types adds a bit of quality & novelty to the toy department. Moreover, such items wages direct war against smaller hobbyshops which appeals greatly to Wally.