New Merit 1/18 DAUNTLESS DISCUSSION

[Jason of Admiral Toys]

I think Merit has a beautiful master SBD. It looks as though this is an actual test shot. So what you see is what you will probably get. Admiral Toys ran into several issues when designing this model. Here are a couple of issues we found with crew members and the SBD:

(I posted this under the "who will make pilots for the SBD?' thread. Thought I would restate it here as well. It speaks directly to the design of this great model.)

I think it will be difficult to fit both crew members in Merit's SBD in its current design/configuration. First, the ring that the rear gunner sits in is very narrow. it is almost impossible to slide a 1:18 figure in the ring. Furthermore, the rear seat is very low on the actual model. It is very difficult for the shoulders and arms to work in conjunction with the ring and gun position. We had to modify its design. We made the ring a semicircle, raised the seat and removed the foot pedals in the rear.

Now look at the pictures on Merit's site. How are you going to close the third sliding section of the canopy with a crew member in the rear position? The only way this will work is to have a very, very, very short gunner, or design the canopy so that the rear section can be removed from the SBD, a pilot placed in the cockpit , and then the canopy is reinstalled on the aircraft. The rear gunner must have been a contortionist to fit in the 1:1 SBD. Admiral Toys designed three canopies in anticipation of this issue. We had a static closed rear section that was plug and play, a static open rear section that was plug and play, and a fully working canopy. We had not made a decision on which way to proceed.

The pilot is not as difficult. The only problem with the Merit model, that I see, is the distance between the seat back and the pedals. They would have to move the pedals back a bit to fit a standard 1:18 pilot .

Admiral Toys made horrible pilots and wanted to go the pilotless route the entire time. It appears that is the direction Merit is taking. I don't blame them. A pilot costs about $4K to tool and adds about $1.50 production cost, per model.

[snake]

I think Merit has a beautiful master SBD. It looks as though this is an actual test shot. So what you see is what you will probably get. Admiral Toys ran into several issues when designing this model. Here are a couple of issues we found with crew members and the SBD:

(I posted this under the "who will make pilots for the SBD?' thread. Thought I would restate it here as well. It speaks directly to the design of this great model.)

I think it will be difficult to fit both crew members in Merit's SBD in its current design/configuration. First, the ring that the rear gunner sits in is very narrow. it is almost impossible to slide a 1:18 figure in the ring. Furthermore, the rear seat is very low on the actual model. It is very difficult for the shoulders and arms to work in conjunction with the ring and gun position. We had to modify its design. We made the ring a semicircle, raised the seat and removed the foot pedals in the rear.

Now look at the pictures on Merit's site. How are you going to close the third sliding section of the canopy with a crew member in the rear position? The only way this will work is to have a very, very, very short gunner, or design the canopy so that the rear section can be removed from the SBD, a pilot placed in the cockpit , and then the canopy is reinstalled on the aircraft. The rear gunner must have been a contortionist to fit in the 1:1 SBD. Admiral Toys designed three canopies in anticipation of this issue. We had a static closed rear section that was plug and play, a static open rear section that was plug and play, and a fully working canopy. We had not made a decision on which way to proceed.

The pilot is not as difficult. The only problem with the Merit model, that I see, is the distance between the seat back and the pedals. They would have to move the pedals back a bit to fit a standard 1:18 pilot .

Admiral Toys made horrible pilots and wanted to go the pilotless route the entire time. It appears that is the direction Merit is taking. I don't blame them. A pilot costs about $4K to tool and adds about $1.50 production cost, per model.

Great post Jason.

And good to see you again.

Thanks for the insight.

[Beeavision]

The rear gunner must have been a contortionist to fit in the 1:1 SBD.

Sounds like a job for Mr. Bill.

Ohhh nooooo!!!!

[snake]

Newsflash from Badcat.

Dauntless is available for pre order.

$149, with production starting in Feb

Battle of Coral Sea.

[fightin]

Ah yeah, I definitely won't miss out on this one. Looks beautiful, and I'm happy to see 1/18 ain't dead yet.

[snake]

Fantastic to see it looks like it will become reality.

Wish it was a later version though. Midway would have been ideal, IMO.

I will reluctantly pass on this one, and hope that they do a Midway version. Just like the looks of the later schemes myself, and I will probably only get one of these. Something like this.

[Barbarian333]

I already pulled the trigger on a preorder. Wish the picture had a better veiw of the dive flaps.

[gburch]

Looks awesome. From a long-term marketing point of view, I can see why I'd release Coral Sea first. With any luck, there will be sufficient demand for this plane as the first real post-Apocalypse 1:18 NEW offering that they'll sell well, regardless of what scheme they're in. Use Coral Sea to build interest, and then release Midway -- which I agree will have even more interest -- in a year.

I've been really immersing myself in Pacific war history since finishing my V-2 research. So I I'm actually glad Coral Sea is first -- the early-war scheme highlights just how soon after Pearl Harbor that battle was, with the big "unwinged" meatballs and candy stripes on the tail.

I'll be looking to buy from one of the vendors who are regulars on the board here.

[rohirrimknight]

I would like to see the design of the dive flaps too. If the design also make them to open like the 1/32 Hobby Master SBD-3 Dauntless, I give 200 score as it meet 100% of my expectation. Little disappoint that it will not come with pilot and crew. Anyway I still decide to pre-order this one.

[aferguson]

this is a limited production of 1000 piece, so after that we will no doubt see the main production version which will probably be a Midway bird. I too am going to pass on this one in favour of a later version. Just don't have the space for multiples anymore.

Looks great though, although unfortunately there are no pilots with it.

[CW4USARMY]

Can't wait to add this to the collection! . Hope not too many people sit on the fence on this one or it may be the last

[Beeavision]

More pictures up at Merit....

http://www.merit-intl.com/month/mil-88002.html

[aferguson]

CW.....i'm sure it will sell well, although the price is a bit steeper than expected. I think many will wait for a Midway release. I gather that was anticipated, by the small number of the Coral Sea version being produced. It's just Merit's way of squeezing out an extra 1000 sales from the model. It's a good thing.

[[CAT]CplSlade]

That fact it is a plane based on the Lexington excites me, as I grew up across the bay from Pensacola NAS and saw the Lady Lex almost everyday for years.

But I need it in 1/32.

[YT]

Fantastic to see it looks like it will become reality.

Wish it was a later version though. Midway would have been ideal, IMO.

I agree Snake, do you guys think they will do a Midway version later? I hate to not support them, but I really would prefer that livery.

[aferguson]

[CAT]CplSlade: the Lexington you saw would have been CV-16 maybe? The Lexington this Dauntlass is from was CV-2, which was sunk at the Coral Sea.

Yes, there will without a doubt be a Midway version of the Daunltess. 100% for sure. (probably).

[[CAT]CplSlade]

Well, yes, its not the exact same Lex, but then again it would have been hard to train for jet takeoffs/landings on a sunken ship.

[Jnewboy]

[CAT]CplSlade: the Lexington you saw would have been CV-16 maybe? The Lexington this Dauntlass is from was CV-2, which was sunk at the Coral Sea.

Yes, there will without a doubt be a Midway version of the Daunltess. 100% for sure. (probably).

Well said!! I sure hope they do but I will be doing a custom Midway version for myself along with a Midway Avenger to match if they dont. Thats the plane that broke the back of the IJN's carriers turning the tide of war in the pacific (although if it hadn't been for all the brave Avenger pilots that pulled the Zeros down to ground level first it may have been different, thats why the Avenger deserves its due in Midway)

[Tinman]

Great, I've been saving my pennies for this one. And I like the Coral Sea paint.

[Dauntless]

[CAT]CplSlade: the Lexington you saw would have been CV-16 maybe? The Lexington this Dauntlass is from was CV-2, which was sunk at the Coral Sea.

Yes, there will without a doubt be a Midway version of the Daunltess. 100% for sure. (probably).

Well said!! I sure hope they do but I will be doing a custom Midway version for myself along with a Midway Avenger to match if they dont. Thats the plane that broke the back of the IJN's carriers turning the tide of war in the pacific (although if it hadn't been for all the brave Avenger pilots that pulled the Zeros down to ground level first it may have been different, thats why the Avenger deserves its due in Midway)

That was a Douglas TBD Devastator Jnew. http://www.torpedoeight.com/galllg4.html
They got slaughtered on the deck while the SBD's were up high unharassed.
Though you're half right, there was a Midway land based squadron of six TBF Avengers that got nearly wiped out too with only one survivor.
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/even ... mid-4a.htm
I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone do a Midway Avenger with the 21stC. Though there's some modifications with a cowl mounted 30 caliber and canopy. Probably not a problem for someone with your skills.
This guy did a 1:32 mod, but looks like he got the markings wrong.
http://cs.finescale.com/FSMCS/forums/t/136390.aspx

This looks cool. I too was wishing for the Midway version. You think it will be the only release? If so I better get one to be on the safe side. You never know these days.

[Mitch]

I've got mine on pre-order! The price is about what I would expect these days...high, but not over the top.
Let's hope the pic is a semi-accurate representation of what the paint will look like (ie no spot cat).

[snake]

That fact it is a plane based on the Lexington excites me, as I grew up across the bay from Pensacola NAS and saw the Lady Lex almost everyday for years.

But I need it in 1/32.

Well here you go CplSlade.

Hobby Master 1/32 Dauntless, from the Lexington during the Battle of the Coral Sea.

[456THBG]

Love the scheme, so this one is a no brainer for me! Hope they do additional schemes as well, but the "bird in hand" rule applies here for me.

[Buckyroo]

Is this a Bad Cat exlcusive. Any other locations to preorder?

[Dauntless]

....I think it's a Badcat Exclusive, but I don't know, it doesn't say. I did a search and I can only find it there.

Only 1000 of this scheme made, so whether it is or isn't, that's it. It does say it's the "S1" so I assume there's another in the pipe?

I went ahead and pre-ordered one. I figure with only 1000 made in this Coral Sea scheme, even if they do produce one in the most popular Midway markings which is what most want I suspect, I can't lose. They'll be harder to get once they sell out, then kicking myself as always.
Who knows in a year or so what can happen to the appreciation in value. This is 1:18 At least get my money back if I have to unload it (which I probably won't)
$149.00 with free shipping is not too bad.

I'll get the next one too if there is one.

Damn, it's been a while since I bought any 1:18.