Small Scale Military Headquarters

The comments regarding the upcoming BBI Black Hawk re-tool's price have me wondering how willing people are to accept new and much higher prices for their 1/18 in future.

I only really got into this hobby in late '09, so I was used to the higher prices.

Went for pay double but be selective.

I fix them up so I look for dirt cheap prices. lol

I'm willing to pay whatever it takes.... not blindly, it has to be something that interests me.

It is a fact of life..... prices are going up.

The days, when I went into TRU (at a tip from a board member on clearance) and I found six 1/18 Command Cars at $2.50 each and four 1/6 Command Cars at $48 each and bought them all, those days are gone, and will never be here again.

Memories.....

TTT

The higher prices are here to stay, and not just in 1/18.

And with a higher cost, you are naturally going to be more selective on what you spend your money on. And that isn't a bad thing.

I went with the first option. I just currently cannot justify double or triple what the planes retailed for during the glory days. If I am paying $150 plus per plane, it better fly. That is why I am transitioning over to rc.

I do both. But I DOO agree. lol

Double but selective. Let's see $40 for a 1:18 plane at Walmart originally. $50 at TRU for the same.
What are they now, $80? It's about double give or take.

I cannot justify a $160 Blackhawk, when they were $40 at Target and it's basically the same with a few improvements. Gonna pass on that one. They'll sell but I think it's gouging there for a repaint that's not a jet (which are not quite double) The BBI Hartmann 109 will be in the reasonable double range.

I voted for If it goes too high I'm out...

Here's the deal. I like toys, not "collectibles". Toys also means a lower pricetag to me... If I want hyper detailed, hyper priced things to set on a shelf and never touch again the rest of my life, I'll focus on stuff like those 1:16 FOV Tiger or Sherman...

1:16 RC tanks are superior in just about every way but paintjob to the 1:18 stuff we got. The prices on RC 1:16 seems fair to me. 1:18 toys should reflect a similar "fairness" to me, for me to buy. If they choose to make things very hard to get/rare thinking they'll resurrect 1:18 that way, well more power to them. They can cater to the limited numbers interested in paying that much for a toy that will inevitably be flawed I guess...

For me also, the 1:18 allure was also figures... I like figures foremost. I thought BBI, FOV, and 21st all did some awesome work with figures, for what I considered GREAT prices. If they'd worked more with online retailers, and better case assortments, and knowing when to move on (and eventually bring back) figures, they'd have maybe done better, but then again they didn't do bad around me regardless.

Armor and things were my 2nd love. Aircraft a distant third. And anything I want is pretty much WW2 or earlier. Anything after that I can take or leave. If tanks are $100, and basically no better than ever, why not just buy the 1:16 version for a little more, and get a lot more "product" in the box? And planes I'll just walk away from. About the only thing I'd cave on is a Mitchell for sentimentality.

I really like 1/18 scale, but I'm not a fanatic about it, I would like to think it will come back around and for certain pieces I would pay more, but at the same time it seems what is being offered is mostly rehashed items.

I'm lucky for the fact that there are older models I don't have yet, so I'm always on the lookout for one of them, I missed most of the so called good ol' days, but was lucky enough to catch it right at the end and get some really great aircraft at what I consider a great bargain.

Never had a '1/18 Golden era' over here, so for me the current rates are pretty much static, the only difference I can remember was that when news was coming out that 21st had gone bang, there were a couple of P51 versions on Amazon which had their prices increased overnight.
I recently paid just under £100 for the new Starfighter version, but while a bit steep, it's not too far off where some of the older models can be anyway.
The obvious reason for collecting is the large scale, but prior to buying my first 1/18 warbird, I was on 1/72 aircraft and armour, and initial Dragon armour releases were about £8 each, so at that time £100 would buy a good dozen models, now the same £100 would get me 4 and certainly no more than 6 of their little tanks - so for that reason, for now, my money is going to be put down on the big birds.

The "Golden Age" is sadly gone, but really this hobby is in fact becoming something approaching a true collector's hobby with a limited (hopefully high quality) selection that costs a bit more - and a more limited fan base that is selective with what they purchase.

A lot of other "professional" collecting areas are like this. Think the K&C Soldiers and related, the fancy 1:6 scale items, the premium diecast items, etc. While it is possible to collect anything and everything with those, you really do have to be selective - 1:18 military is the same way and always should have been. The glory days at Wal Mart and TRU simply spoiled us, for better and worse.

The direction we are seeing companies like BBI take now is in many ways where 1:18 should have been all going along. It would have made for perhaps a less bumpy road and 21c might still be around...

Just my thoughts

I'll be selective if the price keeps going up

Will give my left eyebrow for a 1/18 Henschel KT, Russian Hind & an A-10

The price go up not only 1/18 but also another scale too. 1/6 scales also another scale I collect that price are go tooooooo.....high now and start to be too much to accept. So, I am now select only what I really want to buy.
For BBI 1/18 MH-60, if they also complete the set with fuel probe, front and rear sensor, add one more pilot, two crews for each of their minigun and add another three of the special foreces. For me the price should be more reasonable to consider.

I hope BBI will monitor our feedback for them to consider. I also response to them in FB.

agreed, the BBI Black Hawk is $50 too much.

1. Some unrealistic modification can see in their new version of MH60 as well. The picture also show that they do not put clear window. Also interest where the ammo can locate. Not sure if the picture I add can see by all of us or not. If not,please go to badcattoys website and look at the picture#9 of BBI MH60
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/badcattoys_2177_23922157

2. Is this really MH60 version? I can not find the real picture of MH60 look like this one. All I can find from google will include front and rear sensor, fuel probe, small handle each side of front radome. At this price, they shall make it to be more reasonable at this price.

aferguson wrote:The comments regarding the upcoming BBI Black Hawk re-tool's price have me wondering how willing people are to accept new and much higher prices for their 1/18 in future.

While I would pay these kind of prices for something brand new (like an A-10), I don't believe this is going to fly for the Blackhawk (no pun intended). I don't even really understand what is going on here but I suspect we have BBI testing out an extreme end of what the marketplace will tolerate price-wise. Don't think they are going to get much in the way of advance orders from me on this one.

interesting comment. Something that i guess has to be factored in is that this is a bit of a re-tool. The windows, the addition of the mini guns and nose radar and i believe a couple of other small changes. And i suspect this is a pretty limited run (2000 maybe?) so the cost of re-tooling has to be amortized over a smaller run. But, most of the rest of the bird is unchanged and you are really only getting 1 extra figure over what the F-16 comes with.

They may be seeing if this price range will sell for helicopters, with perhpas a Hind or Stealth Black Hawk in mind. Or it could be a simple gouge, trying to take advantage of the Bin Laden raid and American patriotism.

I suspect they will all sell, in time, but it will take a while. As i said elsewhere it should have been $50 less, or come with 2 pilots and 2 door gunners and 3 seals (ie 7 figures total).

I voted that I'd pay the higher prices, but be more selective. For instance, as much as I want to encourage anyone who will release a new big bird these days, I didn't get the new F-16 repaint: I balanced the price against the fact that it's out of scale (something that's always bugged the crap out of me on the OOB S1 F-16 I did get a year or so ago) and the fact that I'm spending money on other crazy model-related projects these days. But I did get the AllGo 1:32 birds, even though that's not my scale, and I'm definitely getting the 109. In the end, I'll probably suck it up and get one of the new Blackhawks.

Meanwhile, I don't think we'll see prices go down based on "the economy getting better" -- at least for some years. I'm pretty pessimistic on the economy as a whole. I think we're in for a really crappy time for the next four or five years, at least ... and, in my darker moments, I think maybe more.

Thus my crazy dreams of trying to bring about a grass-roots revolution in small-scale manufacturing. In my secret dreams (I guess there not so secret if I'm posting here about them ), I have the idea that the same kind of technology that could change the way our beloved 1/18 toys are made might -- just might -- be the basis for a way out of the serious ditch our economy (and society) is in ...

gburch wrote: Meanwhile, I don't think we'll see prices go down based on "the economy getting better" -- at least for some years. I'm pretty pessimistic on the economy as a whole. I think we're in for a really crappy time for the next four or five years, at least ... and, in my darker moments, I think maybe more.

You are correct. Unfortunately, the world's toymaker (China) will be taking a massive hit when the dollar tanks so all imports will be jumping in price and many discretionary items may disappear in favor of basic necessities for a while.

I don't think any local manufacturing will appear for quite some time as we don't have the infrastructure in place and credit to start a new concern will be difficult if not impossible to come by.

[CAT]CplSlade wrote:

gburch wrote: Meanwhile, I don't think we'll see prices go down based on "the economy getting better" -- at least for some years. I'm pretty pessimistic on the economy as a whole. I think we're in for a really crappy time for the next four or five years, at least ... and, in my darker moments, I think maybe more.

You are correct. Unfortunately, the world's toymaker (China) will be taking a massive hit when the dollar tanks so all imports will be jumping in price and many discretionary items may disappear in favor of basic necessities for a while.

Well, I think you're right about China and the dollar. The dollar has to tank eventually. We can probably put off the day of reckoning with a few more rounds of pure BS, but eventually, the fundamentals will finally catch up with us. When that day comes, the only way out is to crank up the printing presses.

[CAT]CplSlade wrote:I don't think any local manufacturing will appear for quite some time as we don't have the infrastructure in place and credit to start a new concern will be difficult if not impossible to come by.

Well, as Yoda said ... "there is another ..." Doing things the way things are done now, with large shops that have expensive machines or lots of cheap labor or both, won't ever work here. But maybe -- just maybe -- there's another way ...

aferguson wrote:interesting comment. Something that i guess has to be factored in is that this is a bit of a re-tool. The windows, the addition of the mini guns and nose radar and i believe a couple of other small changes. And i suspect this is a pretty limited run (2000 maybe?) so the cost of re-tooling has to be amortized over a smaller run. But, most of the rest of the bird is unchanged and you are really only getting 1 extra figure over what the F-16 comes with.

Agree, I think you are getting some window-dressing modifications but a massive increase in price. I see what they are trying and I understand why prices must go up, but similar to All-Go's first two 1:32 scale ventures, we're talking about retail price increases of 100% or more compared to something that was out just a few years before. I don't know if that is reality or if these manufactures are hedging risk by increasing their own profit margins significantly. I guess it's OK if they want to do that, but they'll have to warehouse the inventory, not me.

They are in for a rough ride on this one. A lot of collectors already have this bird and at $159+ for a new one I don't see many new takers except people who somehow missed them the first time around. It is one thing for a desperate collector to capitulate and spend $150 for one on eBay when they are not otherwise available but it is another thing altogether to get someone to part with that much money when they have primary marketplace release and the spectre of a "inventory clearance sale" is potentially around the corner. This will be an exercise in waiting out the retailer/manufacturer's patience.

it's interesting because if the Black Hawk had never been released and just came out now, people would probably be diving on it (as they would for a Hind, as an example), even at this steep price. As it is it will most likely sell slowly but steadily....don't underestimate the sexiness of the window guns plus the additional appeal of the Bin Laden raid.

aferguson wrote:it's interesting because if the Black Hawk had never been released and just came out now, people would probably be diving on it (as they would for a Hind, as an example), even at this steep price. As it is it will most likely sell slowly but steadily....don't underestimate the sexiness of the window guns plus the additional appeal of the Bin Laden raid.

But there is no dead Bin Laden figure included

I hope some one makes a look custom of it with one, maybe dangling from a rope beneath the helicopter with it hanging up

If that was the actual helicopter in the raid, but we all know because of a missing tail section it was a steaIth version. Of course the general pubics don't know that possibly.

I have it's sister the Apache, I don't have the original Blackhawk, but I won't pay that. It's way over priced imo.

Maybe the first one will go down in price, though I wouldn't bank on that too much either... Oh well.