Small Scale Military Headquarters

I picked up the third Obi Wan Kenobi figure in the Return of the Sith Hasbro 1:18 line today, and am thrilled with him. He has multiple points of articulation, such as: ball neck, ball shoulders, ball elbows, ball-ab joint, ball knees, ball ankles, wrist cuts, t-crotch. 14 in all. They don't interfere with his sculpt at all, in fact he's one of the best looking figures Hasbro has made in my opinion. Another figure in the line, the AT-SE Tank Gunner, even has ball hips.

So it got me thinking about the 21st Century and BBi soldiers. I started collecting these with the BBi Navy Seals and those are great, with ball shoulders, but their poseability is lacking in pretty much every other point. Both companies have excellent sculpts for their figures but, especially in the legs, they are limited.

Basically what I'm interested in is if anyone else would want a SP(super-posable) line or wave of figures? Not really thinking about the WW2 figures, but to me it would really enhance any future Special Forces lines they do to have a heightened level of articulation. It'd help with playability, dioramas, etc. I'm not talking about GIJoe style o-rings either.

well i found that the Japanese soldiers are pretty frickin' poseable. Are you saying you want MORE poseability than that? If so then i would vote no, as it already is starting to interfere with the realism of the figure, imo.

I agree with Aferg. I'm happy with the 21C Japanese articulation. Beyond that, maybe the ball joint head and maybe leg ball joints for mounted cavalry soldiers (Like that will ever happen). But, when they try to do to much (like some of the SW), either the joints fall apart or the figure can't even stand up. Or, like with micromen, the joints completely break.

I think the figures that are coming out now have very good articulation. The Japanese troops are very well poseable. Taking it a step further might help, but if it stopped with the articulation of the Japanese troops, I wouldn't be a complainer.

I disagree with you fellows and i agree that more articulation is needed...

For example a figure in the prone position looks like if it was looking at the ground instead of looking foward like if he was firng his weapon....the best example of an innovation to solve this problem was the 21st paratrooper figure named: "jennings". I would like to have that neck up and down swivel motion in addition to the left and right motion of the head. And it has been proven that can be done so i hope 21st intoduces that articulation of the head in near future.

Articulation is always good!!!

For me, I say yes in the poll, but overall?

Well I feel that Star Wars has taken the cake on "Super articulation" in this scale. The reason I say this is that Hasbro's proven it can be done while not interfering with the figure at all...

The ROTS Obi-Wan Pilot figure that features super aticulation is definitely a superior figure to most every 21st figure I own, but that's not to say I dislike the 21st figs. They're different companies with different capabilities and there-in lies a problem.

Hasbro's ball/socket articulation they're using is an injection molded process that I'm wagering 21st doesn't have the capability of producing right now. So, to that end, I'm happy with 21st figures currently like the Marines and whatnot. I believe they COULD add the ball/socket heads though as Hasbro does them, as it's simple and not a matter of the production capabilities of the company. If anything it's simpler than 21st's current methods.

Ankles COULD be done a similar way. A foot has a "ball post" that simply pops into a concave "socket" on the bottom of the boot. If done right the foot would rest within the shin like, and it'd be sturdy.

So to say "no" isn't necessarilly a good thing... Hasbro's super articulation is better hidden than any articulation 21st uses. There's no seams whatsoever. It's really quite impressive, but at the same time the injection molding process Hasbro uses on this is a bit more complex than 21st's construction and I'm wagering they may not have the ability in production to mimic that. To that end, I like 21st's figs for what they are. BBI's the same...

Hasbro's proven it can be better if you have the means though. Now they just need to be more "standard" with it. Ah, thank god a "collector year" is coming.

I have to also agree with Andrew. More articulation=less realism.....


-Ski

Hmm the tone of the comments is kind of running counter to the results of the poll so far. Are you guys who replied not voting?

In any case here's a pic of the figure I was referring to, to give you an idea(clickable thumbnail):

Well as someone who adds articulation to his figures I`d say MORE PLEASE

I love the Microman range with it`s 30 points of articulation & even PTE/New BBI ones have more than your Joes do.

I also don`t think it NOT a Trade off on detail,as i`d like to think my customs have NOT suffered for Added articulation.

knowing Tomd`s work,hell he thinks along the same lines as I & his figures rock too.

So More Articulation please & no loosing detail either.

Ja
Steel Bonnet

Power Team's 1:18 figures have the best articulation by far! Put this on the XD Marines!!! Or a new set of Germans! bbi's Paratroopers have good articulation-but I agree they would be better with more articulation in the leg area.
The XD Japanese are probably 21C's best articulated figures so far! Wish the Marines were this good! More articulation? YES! But as Aferguson said, as long as it doesn't interfere with the realism!

What are these Power Team figures you're referring to? Are they a product line or a customizer?

Incidentally I do agree that the poseability for most figures is fine... for example WW2 troops don't need to do much more than stand and kneel. But as 75th Ranger noted there are some poses that just aren't replicable with the figures as they are now. A sniper figure can basically just hold his rifle and nothing more.

I think particularly figures like BBi's modern Navy Seals could benefit from ball knees. As it is BBi figures have a tough time doing anything but standing upright, let alone kneeling. I try to pose them in a more interesting way but their legs make them highly unstable at any pose but standing straight.

Later on I'll post another example of a figure in the 1:18 scale with large amounts of unobtrusive articulation, Hero Ash from Palisades' Army of Darkness line. The figure has an intering solution for better-articulated hips that doesn't succumb to Toybiz' giant ball joint failing.

Power Team is made by M & C Toys and is a line of modern soldiers. The packages actually say Power Team Elite. You can see some at KB Toys online store, and some are showing up at Toys r us. While lacking in detail, their articulation is outstanding! Dollar General stores also carries some of this stuff-but most of the time it's hit or miss. Sears online also has some of their sets. They also put out a line of 12" figures that are sold at KB, Sears and Big Lots.

Pwerteam are thankfully a rather ignored brand in that,Joe collectors don`t like them as they are "Not Colourfull enough" or maybe that "There all the same being Military figures".

So the guys & gals who do indeed buy PTE are quite happy in that

They do very good figures & if looking for articulate Military figures yes PTE is I`d say also The Brand to goto.
They also have a super range on the Vehicle/aircraft front too.
Some are off scale to only a fraction off scale.
Point being though M1 tank,Humvee (best selection of varients too),bikes,ATVs,Horses & camels (both articulated),base & base acc`s,River Patrol Boats (USMC & Navy SEAL types),Kayaks,UH-60 Blackhawk helo,F18,AH/MH-6 Littlebird helo,etc etc.

One brand to most certainly buy into & I don`t think you`d be dissapointed.

Ja
Steel Bonnet

PTE is a good brand and they make nice accessories too!

I also want to say again,

MORE ARTICULATION is really good!!!

Especially the head/neck idea that i mentioned above.

I like to play with and pose my figures in multiple ranges. I ave felt for years that each toy company producing figures in 1/18 scale had its own drawbacks. The first line of XD vietnam figures for example were not designed for my type of play. That did not stop my buying up all I could find. I buy everything I can get my hands on in 1/18. I am not a collector, I am a customizer.

As far a more articulation, My custom figures have what I feel is needed for play, in and out of their planes, helo's or vechicles. Ball joint neck from GI joe spytroops, so he can lean into the sights of his weapon or if lying prone he can look up. I like the ball joint shoulder, I feel it is better for holding and firing positions. I like the upper arm split from the XD paras as well as the upper thigh. I like the GI joe hips however, for better posing in a standing, walking or running position. I also like the BBI legs from the knee down.

I have been making a hybrid figure for quite some time now, GI Joe torso, shoulders hips and upper leg, multiple heads from BBI, XD, GI joe. Elbow joint, forearm wrist and hands from XD. Knees lower leg and boots from BBI. I currently have 50 of these hybrid figures, mostly Modern US troops and special forces.

tomd

I voted yes. One of the main reasons was because I do not like the shirt skirts below the belt. It cuts back on the poseability because you can't sit them down all the way like series 1 figures can. 75th Ranger made a very good point about the neck articulation. I have always hated that they stare at the ground when you lay them flat.

Here's that Army of Darkness Hero Ash figure I mentioned. His style is slightly cartoony in the face(because they couldn't get the likeness rights of Bruce Campbell) but the figure's fairly realistic and *loaded* with articulation: ball neck, ball shoulders, bicep swivels, double jointed elbows, wrist swivels, waist swivel, hinge and swivel hips, thigh swivels, double jointed knees. That's 22 points of articulation, extremely well hidden, and well within the means of BBi at least.

I think people are saying they're accepting of super articulation then, so long as it's not cutting into "realism".

I can't help but look at Hasbro's super articulation as BETTER than 21st's best articulation. Ball/sockets are generally better hidden since they're often sunk into a figure and blend with fabric folds or are covered by armor. Some examples:







Hasbro's got the best I think... I have some of the army of darkness figures myself for customs purposes, and while I agree they're REALLY well articulated, they also tend to be incredibly fragile (think McFarlane-ish) as well as a little unattractive at some joints for my taste... Not all, but some. They're kind of hit & miss in that regard. They've got super articulated corpses though. That's a tough nut to crack in this scale and not have it look odd, but they managed so hats off to them.

For 21st's credit though, I like what they've done generally. Only the modern figures were disappointing to me. The Marines are great though... Their Para's were the best. BBI's improved articulation is sweet too, however their arms aren't capable of holding a weapon properly which is annoying as hell so I hope if they do more fiugres that they address the arm articulation issues.

The figures from 21st have generally been great though. I don't know that they're really capable of an improvement, and if it came at a cost of aesthetics I'd be reluctant to go with it. Of course, it doesn't necessarilly mean that it would, and I think we all can agree that if it didn't, we'd all gladly take a bump in articulation...

My current gripe with 21st is the hands... What's up with the hands? I don't have a Marine that can hold a rifle right in my collection. I'm cool without the extra arms, but GOOD hands would be nice. That's been a disappointment in the Marine figures that I have had. Besides some of the headsculpts, that's about it. They're good by me.

The VOTC Star Wars posted just above are a nice example of what Hasbro should be doing with there SW range,though even there SW VOTC range needs tweeking....

Above you can see him as he is bought & out of package,well here`s how much better he can be with slight modifications.

http://www.ofoto.co.uk/PhotoView.jsp?&c ... 8597141833

He now has thigh ball joints,which personally i think is a MUST on ALL figures,just so you can get Combat stances,vehicle seating,Motorbike riding etc in an easier way & looking more realistic.

Not that long ago i posted a few Military BBI/XD improved customs i did,just to show How easy they are using brands out there & a bit if thought

They were....

BBI Suoer Humvee driver
http://www.ofoto.co.uk/PhotoView.jsp?&c ... 1357141833

BBI Buggy driver
http://www.ofoto.co.uk/PhotoView.jsp?&c ... 2257141833

XD US Special Forces
http://www.ofoto.co.uk/PhotoView.jsp?&c ... 7047141833

Ja
Steel Bonnet

really nice stuff fellows, i do like that extra articulation....and the new STW figures look amazing.

My gripe with ball/socket hips is that they can definitely detract from a figure if not done properly. Again though, I'd take it if it meant an improved figure at no cost to its looks.

Case-in-point, Hasbro's tinkered with ball/socket hips this year and one figure last year. Last year's figure sucked (VOTC Luke) from head to toe, but the AT-TE Gunner this year is a primo example of ball/socket hips done perfectly. Saw a guy graph the lower body of an AT-TE Gunner to the upper body (belt up) of a #41 Clone Trooper. Also grafted the removable helmet Clone head on the #41 body.

Basically, it equalled the ultimate Clone Trooper, hands down. Super poseable, removable helmet... Enough to make a SW geek like me shed a tear.

Hasbro can do better with their SA, but those figures above I rate all of them a LOT higher than 21st figures, which I rate highly themselves. I don't know 21st CAN do that type of articulation though and not have it look "off". As it is, some of their joints are clear as day. The pin-knees on the marines for instance. Not their prettiest work, but to me I like it... Still, it's not aeshtetically pleasing really. The Para's were better, but more prone to breaking at that joint too.

Can we get some pics of this custom version of the clone trooper.

thanks in advance.

Don't know whose work was being mentioned but my friend Industrial at the Fwoosh has been churning out the modded Super-SP Clones: http://www.fwooshnet.com/forum/viewtopi ... 988#203988

The more articulation the better! Like 75th Ranger and others who said it, I want them to be prone with faces up toward the enemy, not eating dirt.

the clone trooper looks really good and the articulation is great!

thanks for the link.