Small Scale Military Headquarters

Do we need to have the same subjects redone over and over just so that the level of detail can be increased or should BBI and 21C be spending more time and effort on creating new subjects that haven't been done yet.

I wonder about this since we now have two Corsairs and will soon have 3 different Mustangs. How many times do the more popular aircraft need to be improved before the companies move on to other aircraft subjects that we have been requesting? I wouldn't even mind so much if they continued to make Mustangs and Corsairs if they would do different models of the aircraft such as the P-51B and F4U-4. 21C did this with the P-47 razorback and bubbletop models and the 109E and G.

Please don't get me wrong, I am happy that we are having an influx of new and retooled aircraft right now and I have purchased all of the new stuff. Maybe I am defeating my own rant by admitting that, but I would like to see more completely new subjects done, like the Zero, instead of another P-51D or F4U-1D.

I'm sure that bbi is getting the point and now we are getting a Zero. Except for 21st's improved P-51, we hopefully will see nothing but repaints and new designs.......

-Ski

I'm in the minority here, but I'm tired of the repaints when they go past 4, I believe it's overkill, but fully comprehend/understand why 21st does it. I prefer modern to "antiques" and would seriously draw the same line with that type as well, and am hoping that companies like BBi can keep the market "interesting" with new items. I like many others will buy regardless of how many repaints, simply because I'm addicted, but I don't buy multiples for projects anymore, and partially because companies like Dragon and Unimax are keeping me busy in smaller scale!

I'm also not a fan of repaints. I can see a couple, but I feel it's currently being beaten to death.

I too, went into other scales because I had exhausted 21C vehicle production lines.

My real little guys live in drawers, my 1:18 are furniture toppers and my 1:6 are floor queens (with some figures crowding out the 1:18 furniture). My 1:1 kings live in the driveway. I'd love to say they live in the garage but at my house we haven't had a vehicle bigger than a quad or M/C in the garage since my kids got their first dirtbike and I started collecting MV parts.

I'm patiently waiting for more 1:18 ground stuff (trucks, armor, artillery,...anything) but I think 21C is keeping 1:18 for planes and expanding their vehicle 1:6 line with new vehicles. Even their repainted 1:6 vehicles show up with some new figures included and I think they have improved their figures to take back some 1:6 figure business they have lost to Dragon and DID.

Way to go 21C. You guys know I'm one of the first to shout when we are disapointed with 21C but when they do something right, I'm glad to pat them opn the back.

TTT

I love repaints. I like to have a choice. With limited space to display these airplanes, I must pick and choose what to buy. I really appreciate NOT being forced to display a P-51 in BBD colors (hurl).

I too like the option.

Like a Gabby bubbletop or even a good BBD 51.

I like them attractive and significant.

I think in general I prefer new products but thats not to say I don't want repaints, either. As expensive and space consuming as it is, I like to army build and different paint schemes really help add some variety to the display. Plus if it means the companies can get more money out of the mold and make it easier to develop new product, I'm more than happy to plunk down the cash.

But its different when bbi goes and does the same thing that 21C has already covered. I mean look, they did a great job with the Mustang and Corsair, both of which I prefer to the earlier versions. But I would have much rather seen bbi continue their modern line of planes rather than go back and do something I already have. We only get one or two planes a year from them and I'd just rather get something completely new (and that they could churn out the repaints on).

I just wish the armor got the same kind of treatment the planes do

I vote for new subjects with a limited number of repaints. I have to admit 21st Century has done a fairly good job on the common planes and tanks, but I would like to see some unusual weapons made perhaps on a limited basis.

Mark

I'm all for new designs, with repaints being spaced out over longer periods so that more input can be given to the new paint schemes. Right now your drowned with choices. I'd rather see the plane made with one repaint a year based on most requested.

I agree on more new products and less repaints. There are many more good subjects (Modern Aircraft, Modern Armour, WWII Armour) that can be done instead of rehashing the same thing that has been done or that someone else has done. If this hobby is going to grow, NEW items need to be introduced instead of putting out one new product to every six repaint/improved products. It has to be kept interesting or people will get tired of seeing the same old thing over and over.

Guys - we know they need repaints, plain and simple. ESPECIALLY b/c we want more and more obscure stuff. Some of the planes people have been asking for are tall orders as it is, do you think once one of our beloved companies actually goes down that road they are not going to make sure they can make their money back? We obviously all want new stuff, but as Mike said bbi was breaking in and needed a foundation - Mustang & Corsair. Now we get the Zero we wanted. Same with 21st - if they need to sell 12 Corsairs and Mustangs to make Mosquitoes and Me-110s, let them do it!

I like it all. I think the whole issue has more to do with timing. If we got new stuff then a repaint of something old and so on, it would be nicer.
Aaron

Some repaints are expected and are actually better than the originals.(See S3 German F- 104) But I agree I would like to see new product more often than repaints/re do's. I realize the companies do repaints to recoup the cost of making the planes and keeping the price more reasonable.
Todd

Pokeyjtc: I'm kind of reiterating what other board members have said in this thread. As I see it, the problem is twofold.
First, BBI and 21C must recoup their design and tooling pattern costs (I guess about $100,000 per model), so they crank out lots of repaints to milk a model for all it's worth. Second, the marketing guys are terrified of sticking their necks out by introducing a model that won't sell. That's why we see the "usual suspects" (P-51, P-47, Bf-109) instead of something more esoteric like a Hawker Typhoon or Najakima Ki. 84. I think they're wrong-I think the rarer stuff would sell like hot cakes. But hey, what do we know? Some of us Groundpounders have only been studying military aviation for thirty or forty years! The twenty-five year-old market ing whizzes at BBI and 21st Century have business degrees. They know everthing!

Don wrote:

I think they're wrong-I think the rarer stuff would sell like hot cakes. But hey, what do we know? Some of us Groundpounders have only been studying military aviation for thirty or forty years! The twenty-five year-old market ing whizzes at BBI and 21st Century have business degrees. They know everthing!

Yes, but one thing they teach them in business school is that a vocal minority can be very misleading and their passionate words may not necessarily translate into sales. The groundpounding "aviation gurus" probably represent less than 5% of total sales. The question is: Do these vocal and opinionated afficionadoes speak for the market as a whole and will the majority buy things like the P-39?

Wear the 21st executive's shoes for a while. Would you put your job on the line or your $100K out of your own pocket to build a . . . a . . . Macchi C202? Its easy to tell others what to do if you, yourself do not have anything at stake.

BTW, with manufacturers monitoring this board, probably the most powerful way to may a suggestion is to state something like:

I would like to see an ______ (F15 for example). If they made this, I'd buy one (or two or ?).


-----

This would almost certainly be more effective than:

I WANT A ZERO!
I'M ON A HUNGER STRIKE!
If bbi had any sense they'd make an A-20.

or similar.

I think that for the most part, manufacturers will stick to what has already been developed and "repackage" the product in different ways to get the most of it's useful life. Hence, we see all the repainted versions of different items. It is a gamble to outlay thousands of $$$$$ and not have an item live up to it's billing. I suspect though, as the hobby becomes more popular among the masses, then we may see more variation in products offered for sale.

repaints - love them (variety) and hate them (space considerations).

repaints held pay for the machine shop bill. people like us tend to buy them. hence they're a smart business move and i think even more should be made, although with less of each scheme being produced.

i do like the idea of a feedback system where we would be given a few choices to pick from and then the company could produce that particular plane.

on the other hand, space for these babies is limited. for instance, i want to rid myself of a 109e to make room for a 109g. i have narrowed the decision down to either my tropical or night 109 but cannot seem to come to a conclusion.

i'll probably end of keeping both in the end.

i wish i could just say no when it comes to repaints. has anyone ever overdosed on xd? was medical attention required?

gustav wrote:

has anyone ever overdosed on xd? was medical attention required?

I've never heard of any physical medical conditions but I'm quite sure there are some psychiatric issues out there.

On Wu: Your points are well-taken. I suppose I am not seeing the big picture. Indeed it's not my heiney on the line if a "rare" plane doesn't sell. But look at the analogies in commercial radio. Ever notice how bad FM radio has gotten? The same few songs played over and over, no matter what the format? It's cause the program directors are terrified you''ll change the channel if you here something unfamiliar. Yet free-form "underground" radio programs (like Steve Van Zandt's) are really catching on. I say that most of the potential customers for BBI/21C models are already military afficianados and would relish some really different models. But you're right I suppose, advice is cheap!

Don: I think things are a little more conservative than we would like.

However, I thought the F-104 decision was a pretty ballsy move. Here is an airplane that was tough on pilots and of little military significance (from a battle standpoint, at least) yet 21st made it. Pretty risky IMO but they are obviously selling well.

The P-39, Typhoon, Me-163, C202, Yak-9, F-105 may one day be made but they will entail more risk than many execs would be willing to take.

Well for those guys listening I'd love to see a P-51 or Corsair made into an Air Racer like Miss America or others. I thought they were so cool when I was a kid and I had one made by Cox that had the small gasoline engine.

I had one of those! Line Control with a little .049. That would be a fun plane in 1:18.

I really have no problem with repaints. I understand why they make them and it works on me. I usually buy at least two different paint jobs for planes, sometimes more if I really like the plane or the markings.

I just don't want to see this continuing trend of making another P-51D or Corsair with new details every few years when the money could be spent developing other planes that haven't been done yet. Especially when we usually don't get more than 2 new releases from BBI or 21c in a year. There are so many planes that people want. I do understand that we boardmembers probably are a very small, but vocal minority of the total buying public, but I know that I would buy less popular planes, such as the P-39, A-20, F6F Hellcat, etc.

One question I do have is how much of the total market is kids and how much is collectors. From my many Wal-Mart trips, I sometimes feel like I am the only person buying this stuff and kids don't even know what it is or have any interest in it. Does anybody have any idea on the marketing demographics?

I'd LOVE to see 21C come back with those first sets of US soldiers and first sets of Germans with the new articulation of their Japanese soldiers!
And I'd LOVE to see bbi do the same by adding their new articulation to their first sets of modern soldiers!