crickets

iballdriver · Post by **iballdriver** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:21 pm

....i finally was allowed to move from the kiddie's table to the grown-ups table on 06/19....now pass them mashed 'taters and bring over some more gravy!!

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:22 pm

I still strongtly prefer 1:18 over other scales, but I've been delving into other things just a bit. Got a 1:144 EA-3B a month or so ago and put that together (the special on BadCat). Tiny scale, but I liked the subject matter.

Have a preorder in on the 1:72 F-111 from Hobby Master. Again, not my scale, but just couldn't resist the era (Vietnam War) and the particular aircraft.

On the 1:18 front, now have the Skyworks Toys upgraded main landing gear and exhaust nozzles for the JSI F-14.

Also, picked up the Price of Persia figure & horse set at Target a few weeks ago. Always looking for combatants for my Romans and Knights.

I do hope for more 1:18 releases, but regardless I have enough 1:18 stocked away to keep me amused for several years. Heck, most of the pieces I got during the Monkey-fest over a year ago are still in their boxes. Will get to them in time....

hworth18 · Post by **hworth18** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:24 pm

I think people just want realistic information.. Not "we're gonna" or "we have plans" because that never seems to happen.

NWarty · Post by **NWarty** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:32 pm

hworth18 wrote:I think people just want realistic information.. Not "we're gonna" or "we have plans" because that never seems to happen.

I think all credibility from the 1/18 manufacturer/distributor front was thrown out the door this past year.

Dauntless · Post by **Dauntless** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:51 pm

Yup, wish in one hand, crap in the other, see which one gets filled up first my dad always said.

YT · Post by YT » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:21 pm

NWarty wrote: I think all credibility from the 1/18 manufacturer/distributor front was thrown out the door this past year.

Yep, that's pretty much it.

Jesse James · Post by **Jesse James** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:32 pm

tko211 wrote:I think what we are discovering is that without the support of mass retail the 1:18 scale items are becoming too cost prohibitive for both the manufacturing company and the collector. The future is perhaps not dark but it does indeed appear dim...

Which is why I always question why they have to aim so big... A King Tiger would be nice, but other things can lay the ground work for a "line" from a small company to build and grow, and satisfy collectors to some degree (well, "satisfy" is probably a really strong term there). Just my opinion... Insisting on cranking out a new plane, or a new big tank is maybe not always the smart way to start is all.

I hope the best for the company producing something though, and hopefully communicating with the retailers when actual problems are coming up, especially when retailers are proving a commitment to said line. That's pretty important to keep that line of communication WIDE open.

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:52 pm

I completed a pair of WWII German and American 25mm platoons for wargaming and just sold some stuff off to start my foray into 28mm Napoleonics as well as 25mm US and British Paratroopers. There is always something else, I guess....

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/7281 ... ize=medium

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/7281 ... ize=medium

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/7281 ... ize=medium

-Ski

DropTank · Post by **DropTank** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:55 pm

tko211 wrote:
On that note: the Tender Terror is on perma-hold.

Wow. That would be a hoot on the board if that topic came up. I would have to go get the popcorn.

Stug45 · Post by **Stug45** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:00 pm

tko211 wrote:There are a couple rally point projects that are in the works as we speak with All-Go. I hope to report more specific detail in the next few days.

I think All-Go should make figures first. Then vehicles. They can make tons of money selling figures.

fightin · Post by **fightin** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:54 am

Stug45 wrote:
tko211 wrote:There are a couple rally point projects that are in the works as we speak with All-Go. I hope to report more specific detail in the next few days.

I think All-Go should make figures first. Then vehicles. They can make tons of money selling figures.

Exactly my point of view.
Some Tomcat pilots would be nice.

NightVyper · Post by **NightVyper** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:26 am

I hope if they make figures they make them with removable accessories because if the accesories are good i will buy them for that alone. I hate BBI figures but they great stuff to customize joes with. I am turning 16 25th anniversary Airbornes into D-boys to go on 4 little birds but i am having problems finding the BBi Figures to strip for the parts i need. they all have custom M4 from Marauders on them but i want the BBI helmets and belt packs. MAN!!! I NEED THOSE BAD!!

My Big Summer project is to try and make a massive Black Hawk down / Mogadishu diorama i have 2 of the 4 black hawks 5 of the 6 little birds 16 Delta well as stated they are work in progress and 50 rangers (made from ROC Desert Ambush dukes) waiting for rest of the m16's to come in from Marauders Gun Runners. I am going to have 3 Humvees soon with PH armor, and i want to do another 3 after these.

I am pretty crazy busy this summer trying to finish this, Looking for a Better Job and gearing up for a KID in November, YIKES!

By the way if anyone can direct me to where i can pick these items up for a fair price other than ebay that would rock!

456THBG · Post by **456THBG** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:38 am

Well, more bad news for collectors...China has apparently decided to let the value of their currency rise, which probably means higher prices for the products they produce! As if we needed more bad news for our hobby!
Just my opinion here (and I'm not saying anyone is being disrespectful or mean-spirited), but TKO is really the only direct link we have left to the 1/18th scale manufacturering side...Probably want to cut him significant slack, or he might just say "KMA" (I probably would)...Remember he's a collector like we are who happens to have an ability to penetrate the "hazy" world of Asian manufacturing - He seems like a good guy, very talented, and has a pretty good grasp on the economics of our hobby. AllGo was a big dissapointment, no doubt, and they, of all companys, should have had a better handle on their "rebirth", but they clearly did not.
However, let's not kill the messenger.

NightVyper · Post by **NightVyper** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:34 am

I agree don't shoot the messenger even if it is fun.

pizzaguy · Post by **pizzaguy** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:35 am

tko211 wrote: On that note: the Tender Terror is on perma-hold. The factory had to produce 5 production samples and each time the issues could not be satisfied. Paint runs, Blotchy OD Green paint, Nose art was not working as Tampo print and was suggested to be a heat transfer = not good. So All-Go looked at the 5 attempts and said "well if it isn't going to be a perfect P-51D then why make it. People won't pay for them" After the F-14 paint issues I have to say if the paint wasn't going to be perfect it would be a disaster. A good call, however disappointing it may be.

I've been busy helping open new stores. Working on 1/18 display stands and RBF covers when I can find the time. I'm not as active in the forum as much as I would like to be, but I try to chime in when I can.

TKO's quote above mentioned cosmetic quality issues with the Tender Terror and the PW. These are all issues that can be addressed with a kit version. If your a person with limited talents. We have many many talented members on this board that can resolve those issues. I would take a kit version over nothing anyday. Take the F-14 debocal. Either people corrected the problem themselves or services were offered to fix it. As long as the construction of the kit is solid we can do the rest.

ALLGO, You have to adapt to the times. If you keep trying to do everything the same way you will get the same results. Listen to the collectors that buy the products. We want anything. If it's a kit we'll take it. Test my therory with the PW. Do it in a kit version. I think you will see a huge response. I would pay 50-60 bucks for a kit. What have you got to lose? You have the molds ready collecting dust. Don't even get fancy with a box. Get the parts put them in a USPS Priority box and ship. I will send you my address. Count me in for the first one.

Sorry for the rant. Anyway I'm just working on new stores and making 1/18 stuff.

DocTodd · Post by **DocTodd** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:05 pm

TKO,
Thanks for the info. I can only imagine how difficult it is for a company like AlltGo right now. Hopefully they can figure out a way. It would be great to see some 1:18 product.
T

snake · Post by **snake** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:07 pm

This is clearly a problem.

Too many collectors of 1/18th are unwilling to spend more than $40 WallMart clearance prices.

We have been spoiled by these prices.And this is a factor in the demise of 21C.

As I stated in another thread,"Imagine the MSRP if these 1/18 models came out today.Not at WallMart,but at hobby stores"

Lots of other scales,and models for me.1/32,1/35,1/72.From lots of different manufacturers.

But I do like my 1/18.

Unless a company can make a profit,no point in producing a product.

1/18 is going to be much more expensive in the future.And will really thin the herd.

coreystinson · Post by **coreystinson** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:19 am

pizzaguy wrote: ALLGO, You have to adapt to the times. If you keep trying to do everything the same way you will get the same results. Listen to the collectors that buy the products. We want anything. If it's a kit we'll take it. Test my therory with the PW. Do it in a kit version. I think you will see a huge response.

The kit market is a different market. Yes, I am sure there is some crossover, but 21st Century/BBI/etc. game was always to tap the market of consumers who do not have the time/talent/inclination to build and paint kits.

As evidence of this, I submit that 21st Century's 1:32 scale armor, when in pre-painted kit form (remember: these screwed and snapped together, no gluing and no painting needed) always sold horribly even when the equivalent item was not available as a pre-assembled model.

My own experience says that there are a lot of people who want to buy something pre-assembled, painted, etc. in a window box for display. I am not even sure how many people are opening these products and doing anything with them.

fightin · Post by **fightin** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:32 am

coreystinson wrote:
pizzaguy wrote: ALLGO, You have to adapt to the times. If you keep trying to do everything the same way you will get the same results. Listen to the collectors that buy the products. We want anything. If it's a kit we'll take it. Test my therory with the PW. Do it in a kit version. I think you will see a huge response.
The kit market is a different market. Yes, I am sure there is some crossover, but 21st Century/BBI/etc. game was always to tap the market of consumers who do not have the time/talent/inclination to build and paint kits.

As evidence of this, I submit that 21st Century's 1:32 scale armor, when in pre-painted kit form (remember: these screwed and snapped together, no gluing and no painting needed) always sold horribly even when the equivalent item was not available as a pre-assembled model.

My own experience says that there are a lot of people who want to buy something pre-assembled, painted, etc. in a window box for display. I am not even sure how many people are opening these products and doing anything with them.

I consider myself as one of these persons who like to have everything pre-painted and pre-assembled. The reason why is simple: I lack of model building and airbrushing skills. I think the latter is the bigger problem.

I'm fine with kits, as long as there are some guys out there that assemble and paint them - for a fair price, of course.

I do assemble every model I get... I don't see a point in keeping them in their boxes. I am a simple-minded collector; I don't want to sell any of my models after a couple of years just to make some profit. As simple as that.

The only problem I will encounter within the next year or so is the lack of space... I will then have to put some models back into their boxes. I won't have any choice then.

King O' Fools · Post by **King O' Fools** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:25 am

fightin wrote:
coreystinson wrote: The kit market is a different market. Yes, I am sure there is some crossover, but 21st Century/BBI/etc. game was always to tap the market of consumers who do not have the time/talent/inclination to build and paint kits.

As evidence of this, I submit that 21st Century's 1:32 scale armor, when in pre-painted kit form (remember: these screwed and snapped together, no gluing and no painting needed) always sold horribly even when the equivalent item was not available as a pre-assembled model.

My own experience says that there are a lot of people who want to buy something pre-assembled, painted, etc. in a window box for display. I am not even sure how many people are opening these products and doing anything with them.
I consider myself as one of these persons who like to have everything pre-painted and pre-assembled. The reason why is simple: I lack of model building and airbrushing skills. I think the latter is the bigger problem.

I'm fine with kits, as long as there are some guys out there that assemble and paint them - for a fair price, of course.

I do assemble every model I get... I don't see a point in keeping them in their boxes. I am a simple-minded collector; I don't want to sell any of my models after a couple of years just to make some profit. As simple as that.

The only problem I will encounter within the next year or so is the lack of space... I will then have to put some models back into their boxes. I won't have any choice then.

What he (they) said. Except that I now have extra available space for some fifteen/twenty additional aircraft on a shelf that I commissioned expressly for that purpose. Silly me, I took manufacturers at their word when they were announcing all those exciting upcoming releases (Mosquito, anyone?). Those empty promises 1/18 scale manufacturers are famous for sure don't take up much of the available shelving space. Might as well switch to 1/16 scale armor, I guess.

What does it say about the state of this hobby that we are now speculating about All-Go's website, instead of their releases, when they have yet to come up with a viable strategy to sell a product, any product?

Dauntless · Post by **Dauntless** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:15 pm

I'm one of those who prefer to have a prepainted model. Not that I have never put together any models and painted them, I just don't have the time.

When they were less expensive than an unbuilt model, at sizes never before had and at the price of a Star Wars toy, well duh sure I'm going to buy a butload of them.

parrish333 · Post by **parrish333** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:02 pm

coreystinson wrote:
pizzaguy wrote: ALLGO, You have to adapt to the times. If you keep trying to do everything the same way you will get the same results. Listen to the collectors that buy the products. We want anything. If it's a kit we'll take it. Test my therory with the PW. Do it in a kit version. I think you will see a huge response.
The kit market is a different market. Yes, I am sure there is some crossover, but 21st Century/BBI/etc. game was always to tap the market of consumers who do not have the time/talent/inclination to build and paint kits.

As evidence of this, I submit that 21st Century's 1:32 scale armor, when in pre-painted kit form (remember: these screwed and snapped together, no gluing and no painting needed) always sold horribly even when the equivalent item was not available as a pre-assembled model.

My own experience says that there are a lot of people who want to buy something pre-assembled, painted, etc. in a window box for display. I am not even sure how many people are opening these products and doing anything with them.

I have to agree with both of you

I often think the simple assembly kits would work. I always enjoyed putting together my old G.I. Joe toys. But then like said above, I guess 21Cs attempt at that didn't work out so great. And Pegasus' recent X-1 kit has gotten very little buzz on this board; I expected it to be a home-run since it seems pretty straightforward as kits go (though more involved than a snap together with decals to be sure). I mean there's hardly a plane more imp't in aviation history (besides the Wright flyer), and not many people seem to be going for the X-1, so that doesn't bode well for a large 1:18 kit market.

I can likely use myself as representative of the larger market - I took a look at the X-1 and thought "Awesome!!! But it might be just a bit too much assembly and painting for me. I guess I'll wait and see if they do a finished/painted version, but if the kit is $40, I bet the full version will be a lot more, and that might be a little beyond what I want to spend on an aircraft that isn't my absolute favorite."

I would pay All-Go prices of $100 for a WWII fighter-sized aircraft if it was one of my all time fav's. And I bet many of us would. But as every poll ever done here has shown, everybody's top choice is a little different. And that leaves most of us feeling like $100 (or $200 or $300!) is just too much for a plane we like, but is not a must-have.

Airacobra · Post by **Airacobra** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:34 pm

I'm not sure we can compare the success rates of 21st Century's 1/32 scale kits with 1/18 scale kits if they are offered. Keep in mind most 1/32 scale builders look for scale outlines and details and are willing to pay the extra cash for those traits. The 21st kits were decent for the price but not in the same league as Hasegawa and Tamiya. That combined with the fact there are so many different subjects in that scale by many different manufacturers it was easy to over look the 21st kits. The same cannot be said about 1/18 kits. I think there are one or two companies that offer any type of line up in 1/18 and they cater to the same scale builders who demand exact scale lines and all the details commonly found in 1/32 and smaller scales and that is reflected in their pricing. I think that if All-Go, Admiral, BBI, etc. would offer their current products in kit form they would do quite well as long as you are not looking for a museum piece. I for one am not a hard core rivet counter when it comes to 1/18 and would be perfectly happy buying the current crop of aircraft available if they were offered in kit form. If I want to go nuts scale wise, which I do at times, I head for my 1/32 Hasegawa and Tamiya kits. I just don't think it's fair to compare the sales of 21st Century's 1/32 scale kits to the potential of 1/18 scale kits. There is really no other competitors at this point.