Wondering about AllGo's Passion Wagon

456THBG · Post by **456THBG** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:16 pm

Bad Cat's site now says May delivery...MTS still says April...Wonder if TKO could update the board?

mountian-man · Post by **mountian-man** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:32 pm

considering that it's April 27th, and we haven't heard anything... I'd say it's going to be May....

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:36 pm

In 1/18 news on new releases is always later rather than sooner.

Be patient. We can almost guarantee the Passion will be released. Anything after that, King Tiger, Jagdpanther will depend on Passion sales. If Passion sales go in the dumper...... so might All-Go.

TTT

snake · Post by **snake** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:39 pm

Threetoughtrucks wrote:In 1/18 news on new releases is always later rather than sooner.

Be patient. We can almost guarantee the Passion will be released. Anything after that, King Tiger, Jagdpanther will depend on Passion sales. If Passion sales go in the dumper...... so might All-Go.

TTT

Exactly.

So why is All-Go making a $100 P-51.

I like the scheme,and the idea,But the $100 price tag certainly makes me pause.

And not pre-order.Unless this is significantly better than the 21C,and BBI 1/18 P-51's available for $30 less,I will not be buying.

Should have gone with $89,tops.

fightin · Post by **fightin** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:05 am

I like the new scheme, but what bothers me the most is that we already have more than enough P-51s from 2 different companies.

I know, using old molds is a great way to get a company going, but why another P-51? I bet a P-47 for example would be appreciated as well.

King O' Fools · Post by **King O' Fools** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:05 am

Sure, using old molds is a great way to get a company going provided you keep the price at a reasonable level. Otherwise, it's an excellent way to file for chapter eleven. There is no way All-Go is going to sell 3,200 units of the Passion Wagon worldwide at $100 each. It's the umpteenth repaint of the most overdone aircraft in 1:18 scale.

Airacobra · Post by **Airacobra** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:30 am

I have said this before, they have a picture of a P-40 on their Aircraft page. I think a repaint of that would sell better than another P-51. Of course, that is assuming they have the ability to produce a P-40. Who knows, we have no idea what molds All-Go has access to, maybe they only have molds for the P-51.

Dauntless · Post by **Dauntless** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:00 am

JSI has that old P-40B mold now. They're going to re-issue it in another Flying Tiger. Presumably the Tex Hill scheme.

Now if it was a P-40E or any later version of the Warhawk/ Kittyhawk we'd all be scrambling to get one wouldn't we?

Was there ever an earlier version of the "Passion Wagon" in a P-51 B/C?

We'd all be stumbling over ourselves to get that too wouldn't we?

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:46 am

And the KT and the Jad is $125. and we haven't even seen one..... Why would we pay that much for a non RC vehicle.

I'll buy one of each, but that's me. I hope they are something special like with an interior but I doubt it.

I am very sorry, but I think AG is stumbling right out of the gate.

TTT

fightin · Post by **fightin** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:43 pm

It's sad, but true.
They picked up the mold of the most overproduced 1/18 aircraft ever... and want to sell 3,200 units at $ 100 each... a great dream that will never come true.

Why not make a B version? I'm sure that would attract more people, especially a nice RAF scheme. It would definitively look neat in 1/18.

Or what about that B-25 that sits on top of their homepage? That would be a big seller, too...

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:29 pm

From what I understand the Passion Wagon is very close to being finished. I saw a final production sample a couple weeks ago. So it's gotta be real close.

The P-51D choice is obviously not ideal for everyone involved but it is what they have to work with at the moment. The hope is that in spite of the con's surrounding the choice that enough pro's would weigh out and help to jump start the other projects (4-5) that are waiting in the wings! You guys have already seen the KT & Jag teaser but there are apparently a couple more things being debated and evaluated as follow on products.

Time will tell if the Passion Wagon has the legs to carry through and help to launch the others... I hope so. This hobby needs every ounce of life in it to help pull it through to newer and better releases.

Stug45 · Post by **Stug45** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:39 pm

Is ALL GO going to make any figures??

mountian-man · Post by **mountian-man** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:14 pm

It sounds more and more absurd every time I hear that wonderful new projects are "waiting in the wings", but their future is dependent on the sales of a P-51D repaint.

If you are spending considerable money to develop things like the King Tiger and the Jagdpanther, then make those new and exciting projects the priority. Why go through all the expense and effort of trying to advertise an over-saturated less popular project? Put that money and time into your new product!

If by good graces you still have a P-51D mold, wait a few years and strike when the iron is more than luke warm.

hworth18 · Post by **hworth18** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:24 pm

Don't know why there is so much concern about the issue date. I seem to remember that it took forever for BBI to roll out its first Zero, and the repaints thereafter. Why produce a repaint? Because there is much less money to invest in a repaint to bring in needed cash-flow to make the new toolings everyone wants. The economy still sucks and All-go is taking a big gamble on this deal.

You guys gripe about not having any 1/18 and not willing to support it when it does show. The days of Walmart pricing are long gone, forget about it and move on.. You can bet that if the Mustang is a flop, you won't see much, if anything else coming.

Krevix44 · Post by **Krevix44** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:25 pm

mountian-man wrote:It sounds more and more absurd every time I hear that wonderful new projects are "waiting in the wings", but their future is dependent on the sales of a P-51D repaint.

If you are spending considerable money to develop things like the King Tiger and the Jagdpanther, then make those new and exciting projects the priority. Why go through all the expense and effort of trying to advertise an over-saturated less popular project? Put that money and time into your new product!

If by good graces you still have a P-51D mold, wait a few years and strike when the iron is more than luke warm.

I sooo agree with you!

snake · Post by **snake** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:06 pm

hworth18 wrote:
You guys gripe about not having any 1/18 and not willing to support it when it does show. The days of Walmart pricing are long gone, forget about it and move on.. You can bet that if the Mustang is a flop, you won't see much, if anything else coming.

I was never able to take advantage of the Walmart days.A little too late,but was still able to get good deals.

I want AllGo to succeed,but I question the price point of a P-51 repaint.I like the scheme,but as I said earlier,I just think $100 is a little expensive.Considering all the other schemes that are plentiful,and quite a bit less.

Now if it was an improved mold,better landing gear etc.,I could see this selling well.But it supposedly isn't.

I am not a business major,but I think that $89 would be a better price.It is not pushing that $100 ceiling.Better to sell more at this price than to have them sitting on the shelves at $99.

It is not going to be good for collectors,or AllGo,if their first release is "Stalled at the starting gate"

And I agree with Harry.

The Walmart clearance days are over.Any new releases are going to be much more expensive.And therein lies the problem.

How do you get veteran collectors to spend significantly more money,on what is essentially the same mold?

Not sure?But pricing it at $99.99 is a little high.In my opinion.

fightin · Post by **fightin** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:56 pm

Don't get me wrong, guys, I'm really happy to see that new 1/18 stuff is being produced.
But I only want one P-51, and I already have BBi's "Killer" Mustang.

I don't collect multiple paint schemes of every model, I limit myself to one.

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:51 am

Well, either way, the bulk of sales of Passion Wagon will not be from this board. The only chance for the plane to succeed will be with new collectors. I hope that AllGo successfully taps into this area of the market and advertises appropriately. It seems that a lot of old collectors like myself already have been there, and done that with the P-51. It is frustrating to see this sort of thing happen time and time again. I certainly hope that Passion Wagon doesn't become another Petie III.

-Ski

MCalamari · Post by **MCalamari** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:47 am

I'm getting a Passion Wagon, and I suspect that if store fronts put a few up on ebay, that new collectors can clue in to the release.

Mitch · Post by **Mitch** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:46 am

mountian-man wrote:It sounds more and more absurd every time I hear that wonderful new projects are "waiting in the wings", but their future is dependent on the sales of a P-51D repaint.

If you are spending considerable money to develop things like the King Tiger and the Jagdpanther, then make those new and exciting projects the priority. Why go through all the expense and effort of trying to advertise an over-saturated less popular project? Put that money and time into your new product!

If by good graces you still have a P-51D mold, wait a few years and strike when the iron is more than luke warm.

That about sums up my opinion...totally backwards business thought process and if other things "count on" the sales of PW...we will probably never see the releases (KT, JAG) that would have made them $$.

-once again, sorry...I have turned into a pessimist

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:32 am

I can see how it might seems absurd from the outward perspective and I share with most people the concern for a P-51D as such being a critical release.

The reality of the situation is that there is little choices than could have been made otherwise. This is the play that has to be made.

Think about it- who has all the other 21C molds (I understand that they were pirated away from 21C)...

There has been NO amount of money spent by All-Go in regards to development of the KT or the Jagpanther. Both projects are right were 21C left off. So I don't want to give the impression that All-Go is choosing this strategy as much as it is what HAS to be done. The P-51D is what they have left to use that is already invested in tooling and ready to go. Anytime anyone makes anything in 1:18 these days it's a huge risk in terms of profitability and funding to make more.

I know that All-Go would rather build up a totally new plane (and they plan to). as opposed to launching another P-51D but it's what has to be done. The strategy is not so unfamiliar. Look at JSI- they had to (steal) 21C tooling to produce the following: Corsair, Stuka, P-38, & Panther all before the BBI model F-14 came around! Nobody found fault with that strategy! Even funnier that the schemes for those older products were pretty much re-runs... The P-47, Spitfire and such are not usable at this time so it's P-51 or Avenger... (Avenger would cost more to run)

I gotta give All-Go kudos for stepping in and giving 1:18 a shot rather than simply dive into 1:32 and avoid it all together. I give them props for trying hard to give us something more interesting in terms of paint for the P-51. I think the concept of going the pin-up route at least demonstrates some ingenuity. So- It's all in how you look at it I guess.

Like I said above, I share in the concern for the P-51 and it's not ideal obviously, but I'm willing to support it and give them as much of a chance as we have given others in the past including 21C, JSI, Admiral, BBI and others. Hopefully the Passion Wagon won't be the last product made by All Go but rather the first! thats my 3 cents!

-TKO

mountian-man wrote:It sounds more and more absurd every time I hear that wonderful new projects are "waiting in the wings", but their future is dependent on the sales of a P-51D repaint.

If you are spending considerable money to develop things like the King Tiger and the Jagdpanther, then make those new and exciting projects the priority. Why go through all the expense and effort of trying to advertise an over-saturated less popular project? Put that money and time into your new product!

If by good graces you still have a P-51D mold, wait a few years and strike when the iron is more than luke warm.

usmcchet9296 · Post by **usmcchet9296** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:58 am

It is my firm hope ALLGO is successfull and it is also my hope JSI is. I like 1/18th but wasnt one who came onboard during the WalMart heydays. I came on around MD's blammo sale but I did hav some stuff prior to that. While I understand ALLGO's decision to re-release a P51 and I also understand that at shows manufacturers will show prototypes that unfortunately never see the light of day. That being said I think its unfair for anyone to tell us the consumer to buy X so Y can be manufactured. I mean really what if we buy X but Y never comes out but Z does. Can we sue said manufacturer because some representative from said company told us that was the only way Y would come out. Is ALLGO on such weak footing that there whole operation is reliant one just one product for its success? To me that sounds just like the same failed business model that failed 21C in the past. See while I wast into 1/18th till just reciently I was into 1/6th from way back in the day. I remember the Ultimate Soldier Nam gear, I remember when there first WWI figures came out. Right now on my desk are pictures of the 1st 21C Con.... My son who is almost 12 was from the looks of the picture somewhere around 1 or 2. I Remember getting my Little Bird and M5 shortly around that time so While not the first into 21c stuff I was one of the earliest and I remember all the mistakes 21C has made over the years from its partnership with TRU to its utter dependance on Walmart .... TKO I appriciate your support of a great hobby but please understand that I can be fooled once and the shame is on me but fool me twice and well we all know where the shame is laid.

Airacobra · Post by **Airacobra** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:53 pm

This question is for TKO or anyone else in the industry. I'm sure this has been discussed before at some level, but would it be possible for ALL-Go or JSI, or Admiral, etc. to release 1/18 planes in kit form and still turn enough of a profit to allow more releases? I'm sure there is a point of diminishing return on pre painted planes and I was wondering if manufacturing kits would be a viable option. Personally, if I were to purchase another Mustang it would have to be a scheme I really like, such as Frenesi or Man-O-War. Releasing a blank kit would allow us to choose the scheme we want. I know some people do not like building or painting kits, but there are many more people, not on this message board, that enjoy building and painting models. If you go to large scale planes or any of the other scale model building sites you can find a few examples of builders who do a repaint of 1/18 scale planes and some who do a complete tear down and rebuild adding additional scale details. This shows there is an interest in these planes and that maybe offering kits would lure more "outsiders" into the mix. Just a thought, and please share your opinions.

Mitch · Post by **Mitch** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:03 pm

I didn't mean anything (too) negative by my last post TKO and apologize if it was taken as such. I have been into 1/18th since day one and even in the WM days at $39 or whatever a pop, knew that that was waaaay cheap.
These days honestly I have no problem at $100 each because I feel that is fair and especially since new releases may only come out once or twice a year.
I seriously hope AllGo, JSI and anybody else continues to produce the scale, but to get sales it has to be something new and desirable IMO.
The thing with 18th scale is there's nice detail, impressive size and it's unique that's why I like it.

Didn't mean to add fuel to the fire.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:14 pm

Thinking about it now, I understand where Allgo is coming from. It's kind of a SNAFU situation really....
Allgo: We want to build those, put we have to sell these first -
Us: Well I don't want these, I want those -
Allgo: Yeah...I know..but we need the money from these to help float those -
Us: Yeah...We know..but we want those instead of these.
(Not really a catch 22....A vicious cycle maybe?)
It would be like a new race car team using an old car from a previous season because it's cheaper than building a new one from scratch.
Race Team: We are a new team but we are running an old car -
Us: Where's this new car you were talking about?! -
Race Team: This is cheaper than building a new car from the ground up...We need to win some races with this car, build up some money/sponsors, then we can start building our own car -
Us: But we don't want to see this old car...We want to see your new car -
Race Team: Yeah...I know..but we need to use this car to create some money for the next car -
Us: Yeah...We know..but we don't want to support this car. We want to support the new car -
(.....and so on and so forth)

So maybe Allgo is just playing the only card it has at the moment. Tough situation. Especially with goons like us knocking on their back door!

Oh..and will I buy a Passion Wagon?...no...unless I can find a way to ship them over for free....(but that's a story for another day)