2000 S1 21C XD Product Line - True Scales

[Sgt. Stryker]

Hello again.
This is a major issue to our hobby, because the WWII 1:18 all starts in the year 2000 with the 21st Century releases at TRU with the S1 Sherman Tank, Panther Tank, P-51D Mustang Airplane, ME-109E Emil Airplane, Willys Jeep, and Daimler Kubelwagen.
Since all of these Tanks, Airplanes, and Vehicles included "munchkin" figures as the commanders/pilots/drivers, the true scale of these plastic models comes into question.
Has anyone here at the forum made an "engineering" effort to authenticate the scale of each item of the 21C S1 XD product line?
STRYKER
PS The Sherman tank looks to me as though it is 1:19 scale. Has anyone tried to properly fit a S2 Commander fully into the copula? (as should be his position during combat)

[digger]

Don't use whether or not an S2 figure will fit as a judge of scale. Remember, flesh and clothes smush better than plastic....I think the scales are correct but have not checked (recently). I remember checking the M2 & M1025 and the scale was literally perfect.

[aferguson]

Yes they're all pretty much spot on, scale-wise....no worries there.

[MightyMustang]

I think the scales are off a little here and there. For instance. If you compare the MAGNIFICENT BBI Mustang to 21st Centurys 1/18th scale Corsair or Thunderbolt you see the BBI Mustang is a little smaller, not much but a little. I dont know if its because the Thunderbolt was made to look BIG but I compared it to my BBI Mustang and 21st Century Kepford Corsair and it DUWARFED them both! To my eye the 21st Thunderbolt is bigger then 1/18th scale.

[digger]

MM - the P-47 was a bigger plane than the Mustang in every respect, so it should appear bigger in 1/18 too.

While on the topic of S1, can anyone comment on how what I believe were the first run of the figures the "firing arm" had a groove on the inside of the elbow where the butt of the gun would fit perfectly? It may only be on the US Officer but I know some versions don't have that. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

[Sgt. Stryker]

Yes they're all pretty much spot on, scale-wise....no worries there.

Then why were the S1 figures all "munchkins"?

[digger]

So that they could fit in the vehicles....I didn't mind the small figures for that very purpose but people complained about the scale issue so they ditched the munchkins...now you have to rip a guys limbs off just so he can get in his vehicle...

[tmanthegreat]

I believe the figures were left small in order so that they could fit within the cockpits and hatches more easily. Remember, these are ultiamtely kids toys. For example, think of how its rather difficult to get the full-sized XD P-51 pilot into the cockpit of that plane, as it also is for the ME-109 Pilot. Then there is the full-sized Sherman and Panther tank commander figures. Sure tight-fitting figures are alright for us collectors, but they could be very furstrating for a 10-year-old.

IMHO, I am very glad 21c switched to the properly-scaled figures on all subsequent release of aircraft and armor - and that they released carded versions of the P-51 and ME-109 pilots!

[digger]

T-Man Funny you say the toys are ultimately for kids and then mention how glad you were with the carded pilots being released in full scale - because I'm sure kids wouldn't stand for an underscale tanker
I've said before that the carded pilots were a terrible move - we are still paying for it with carded pilots on the shelves of WM !
How many replacement pilots are you going to buy? Especially when only 2 planes needed them but we got 6 pilots.....and you sure as hell aren't going to army-build or make a flight school if nobody's headgear comes off.....Carded pilots were a waste of time/money/distribution....etc...all so we could replace the pilot from two planes....that should have been a mail order solution right there....

[tmanthegreat]

Yeah, that sounds about right. Kind of scary, isn't it







[Before I look too idiotic, my line was intended for Cetone's post, but it works nonetheless!]

[p51]

MM - the P-47 was a bigger plane than the Mustang in every respect, so it should appear bigger in 1/18 too.

[Sgt. Stryker]

Cool photos!
The P-47 is closer to the camera than the P-51 in both images, so I think we need more "engineering" information to prove true scale sizes for the models mentioned in this thread.
BTW, do you know where I can get propellor blade decals for my 21C XD P-47 "Blonde Angel"?

[aferguson]

All the 21c releases to date are pretty much bang on to scale. If someone doubts this then pick up a ruler and a calculator and measure for yourself.

Certain pieces of certain planes are not to scale however....for example the canopy on the P-38, P-47, P-40 and the Corsair are over scale and the cockpits themselves are too large for the plane. This was the alternate solution 21c tried for a while to having munchkin sized pilots.

And yes the P-47 is a huge plane...in fact it was the largest single engine fighter of WWII.

BBI's releases have also been pretty much perfect, scale-wise but some of them look 'delicate' because some of the details on the vehicles are too slender (ie not robust enough). But as far as length, width, height goes they are all fine.

PTE stuff is a whole different ballgame...

[immeww2]

I'm not going to worry if the model is off a bit here and there. All-in-all the products are terrific and still looking for more!

[p51]

The P-47 is closer to the camera than the P-51 in both images, so I think we need more "engineering" information to prove true scale sizes for the models mentioned in this thread.

BEing around them both constantly, I can tell you that the P-47 is much bigger. It is, afterall, the flying brick!

[Teamski]

hehehehehehe.... I know that we have gone over true scales of every piece so far, and as mentioned above, all have been pretty spot on. I thought the only oversized canopies were that of the P-40 and P-47. I never considered the P-38 and Corsair as oversized. Interesting.

I know the munchkins were unpopular and that the full sized armor figures were out of proportion, i.e., the heads were too big. This made them look like giants while sitting on the Tiger tank. It's hard to get it just right in plastic, I guess.

As far as I know, the only underscale vehicle ever made by 21st was the 1:6 Bradley......

-Ski

[p51]

I think, if anything, the corsair may be undersized!

[Teamski]

I think, if anything, the corsair may be undersized!

Nah, it just looks that way in your photo because you've got one of those older "munchkin" pilots at the stick!

I measured the Corsair out a couple years ago. It's spot-on correct. The full size pilots have heads that are large for the scale, so they make the figure look bigger in the cockpit.... Compare them to bbi figures....

-Ski

[aferguson]

Right you are Ski....in fact even the BBI pilot heads are on the large side. For those who have the F-16 or F-18 if you put a pilot in the cockpit and compare to photos you'll see that the pilot looks a bit too big.....it's just because his head is a bit too big.

I guess this is done to show more detail.

[p51]

Nah, it just looks that way in your photo because you've got one of those older "munchkin" pilots at the stick!

He he, that's Steve Hinton, the world famous pilot at the controls