Small Scale Military Headquarters

Hey All,

Went to the Reading World War II weekend and checked out the vendors in the military collector flea market and guess what, very little if no XD at all. The only XD I saw was a DWK Spitfire in one stand, everything else was 1/32 scale.

This bothers me considerably because if vendors can't even sell this stuff at a World War II Weekend where it would sell, where does the future of this stuff lie seriously. Last year at this show, several vendors had the larger 21st items and they sold really well, the guy ran out of the Cobras in like 10 minutes. So where were they this year? Can the vendors not get the products or are they just not selling?

I heard a comment from a vendor there that was selling Armour models and he rang home a very good point "People just aren't spending the money" and he is right. He even had fewer models this year than he usually does at the show. I think the market for the World War II airplanes, especially larger models is falling off now. Smaller scales that are easy to display and store seem to be winning out.

There was a ton of 32X stuff there, all the planes (didn't see a P-40 though), most of the tanks and even figure and playset sets. Unfortunately the prices were pretty high for these items. I didn't buy any as it really isn't my focus but there was some stuff there.

No BBI anywhere!! You could have went to the mall three miles away and picked one up though!

I think 1/18 is really in trouble if they can't even sell them at a WWII related show. Any why in the world doesn't 21st show up at these things. You would think they would want to sell their items.

This company and continues to puzzle me. They want to be in business yet don't act like it. They need exposure as BCA can't carry all the weight and Walmart is a joke

Corey

As a long time 1:1 collector I can say about 2 years ago "toy" articles and adds with 1:72, 1:32 and a few 1:6 figures started showing up on our 1:1 magazines.

I heard a lot of resistance from collectors about our "toys" and models. They were after all "real" collectors and "real" MV collectors "don't play with toys and dollies". Interest has picked up since then. We are wearing them down or else prices are so high in 1:1 MV's that the average guy realizes he will never own his all time favorite vehicle, whatever that is. Personally I came to the realization years ago that unless I hit the Lottery I'm just never going to be driving my very own, M-16 Half-track with quad mount or my very own totally restored WC-57 CC, M-3a1 WSC, M-24 light tank or a M-19 40mm Duster, and of course a M-26 Pacific with 45 ton trailer to pull some of my toys.

The ultimate would be the V-100 Comando armored car. In VN, seeing a couple of V-100's doing convoy duty was a site not forgotten.

Well, I can dream.

I frankly don't understand why more vendors don't advertise 1:18 vehicles and planes. I think that would be a gold mine. I would only hope vendors find this mine before the 1:18 hobby goes away........

TTT

This 1/18 XD stigma has thrown us all for a loop. What we think is rationale behaviour on the part of the manufactures turns out to be quite the opposite. I hope that the scale continues on for quite awhile as there are alot of aircraft, armour and figures that could be made. Whether BBI. 21st, or any other company makes them, remains to be seen.

Hey Guys,

I think the one drawback with 1/18 is the fact that as you do more planes, just due to the scale, they get bigger and bigger. Case in point is the new Avenger, F-104 and P-38. I always thought that 1/18 was great for diecast cars but knew if they did planes they would get way too big on the companies, I think this is a lot of what is happening.

I always personally thought the best overall scale for items would be about 1/24. The planes would be big but not overally big and work rather well with 1/24 scale cars. 1/32 is also a very good choice. Also the planes would work well with all those 1/20 wood aircraft models they make.

The future of 1/18 could be troubled because of the fact the airplanes may just get too big and impractical. Maybe this is part of the reason we have not seen the Avenger. People have commented how they are out of room with the 1/18 scale planes on this board, maybe that is how everyone feels. I know I stopped 1/18 cars for this reason, just too many and not enough room.

Just my thoughts

Corey

I seriously doubt I could ever go back to the smaller scale models again. I hope to see this scale grow too. I really like having figures that you can pose. The little green army guys from when I was a kid were boring. The 32 scale stuff do look nice, but they just don't interest me much. (My $.02)

1/18TH aircraft getting to BIG? My 1/18th Bubble Top Thunderbolt is proof of that! It dwarfs the hell out of my Kepford Corsair along with my BBI Mustang, I can only imagin how BIG the Avenger will be. And I have yet to get my 21st Century Spitfire (DW K Version). On top of that with the 2 new BBI Mustang repaints coming in August I'm running out of room .

That being said though I hope the 1/18th market dont die out because right now I'm enjoying the limited releases we are getting. All of my favorite WW 2 Fighters in big scale, and I dont have to build them. For me its a dream come true and I hope it never ends.

I would agree on some levels. I've been a Star Wars figure collector since they restarted the lin in 1995, so I've been used to the 1:18 scale as my primary scale for some time now. But they really are limited unlike the smaller 1:32 which could probably do a B-17. I have a 1:48 scale B-17 model, and the 1:32 wouldn't be too much bigger But 1:18 scale is big. I've got 36 Aircraft in here now... and 2 more to open... not to mention another Bbi Mustang in August, F-16 sometime soon, and whatever else starts to hit the market soon... there just is less and less space. I have everything far enough away from the main light in the room that they don't affect the lighting... but that may change as more keep showing up. Maybe I should just rent a hangar at an airport and start a museum!

1/18 ww11 has been been my passion for 4 years starting with dragon figures & shortly after, leading into 21st century for supporting vehicles & figures. In 4 years there have been 5 german & 5 american vehicles (yes i have the repaints also). I am happy for all the collectors of 1/18 planes & 1/32 amour to see all your new offerings, but feel cheated at times that i have nothing to look forward to. Before i die my wish is for 21st to upsize there 8ton troop carrier & 88, that would be my jewel in the collection (all 6 of them). What are the chances & yes i am fast running out of time.

TTT wrote:

I frankly don't understand why more vendors don't advertise 1:18 vehicles and planes. I think that would be a gold mine.

1:18 at shows has a number of drawbacks:

The space for carrying merchandise to the shows is limited to the rigs vendors drive and 1:18 takes up lots of room. Markup on 1:18 is next to nothing now that WM has forced 1:18 prices down to about cost. Shows often have expensive registration fees for vendors and there is pressure to markup items above retail to pay for these fees. Most people at these shows like to buy small momentos and aren't prepared to part with $60 for an XD.

Advertising is also far more expensive than most fans believe. Small ads in magazines can run $1000 or more! With profits down to the $3-4 range per item, it would take a lot of sales to even pay for one ad.

I think I agree with everyone in one way or another.
First, 1:18 is a bastard step-child, let's face it. 1:6 & 1/32 will always have numbers on us, so I agree with immeww2 when he says things don't always seem rationale...
Corey is also very on point with the size of these things. I know the Avenger is coming out and it is going to be awesome but something like an A-10 would dwarf the F-18 - so imagine those piled high like 190s. Could you say financial disaster? One beat up, A-10 in a toy aisle takes something from $100 to worthless real quick....

I agree that posing the guys is a lot of the fun - that's my problem with 32x, although this week was the closest I've come to venturing outside of my scale....if just for the armor. You could tell 21st was not that serious about the 1:18 armor from the fact the Panzer IV did not have a removable turret. That was a sign of not only a decline in detail, but also of no intention to use the hull for numerous other vehicles like in 1/32
And with armor goes figures - which are best in 1:18 imo - you can pose them and stockpile them, unlike 1/32 or 1/6.


Lastly - I think 21st/bbi recognize the airshow community as possibly lucrative (see BCA's new affiliation) and I would not be surprised to see airshow exclusives down the line

This is an interesting post, I like everyone's opinion and a lot of people have really good ones, to support their own beliefs, that's cool. I would like to add one more point.

I think that the reason 1/18 is struggling is because the market has become so overinflated with airplane models, and more importantly, the same types. It seems to me everyone is doing P-51's, P-47's, Spits, etc and the list goes on. I know they have to make repaints to make more money but here is how I view this.

A lot of the 21st planes and schemes are available in other scales from other companies. For example Armour makes a lot of 1/48 scale WWII fighters, Corgi is making 1/32 and 1/72, Matchbox is making 1/72 then there are the cheaper 1;/48's like Motormax.

Here are my observations:

-If people collect a certain plane, like P-51's or 109's, I think they are more likely to get the smaller scales because you can display more of them. You could buy 40 P-51's in 1/48 and put them in the spot of maybe 3 1/18 P-51's. I think people are more likely to buy 1/18 planes onceor maybe twice. I know some people buy them all, but most people I don't think do.

-Most display cases and shelves on the market today, especially airtight or dust proof ones, are made for smaller scales. I know I hate displaying models free of cases because of the dust factor. People can easily put smaller scales in these cases and have them be free of dust, dirt, etc.

-The 21st planes still aren't as good of quality as the metal models. 95 percent of the metal models I see are better painted and the detailing looks better, even if they are smaller. Armour planes come in their boxes flawless! I only wish the same could be said for 21st. I don't know about you guys, but if I buy a large model like that, I want it flawless. The bigger the model the more glaring a defect is.

-If 21st needs and wants to succeed in 1/18 they need to do some more types, the repaints will only work so long, and there marketing choices are very poor. I would also limit the repaints to two per mold or something, 6 Spitfires and how many P-47's is totally out of control.

-I think it is turning out for 21st that the Walmart deal proved to be way more worse than they thought. I just wonder where all the products are, stuck in distrubution centers somewhere, store stockrooms, etc. Walmart claimed to be interested but who knows, maybe they don't care so this stuff doesn't sell and they can dump it. 21st has to find more retailers, and ironically enough I think a retailer such as JC Penny may be the best bet or perhaps Sears. A company with a mail order catalog would be fantastic.

-They need to market to people who want this product. Yeah advertising costs money, but don't they want to sell their stuff. This scale will die out unless they go to these shows and events and advertise the product. It's simple really! And please, bring stuff with you to sell!!! Don't come to these shows, as you did to the East Coast hobby show, with nothing to sell people who want your items. That's just wrong!

Yeah well, I'm done. Somedays I think I should be in charge of this company instead of being a teacher!

Corey

First:
I think Digger has an excellent point in the the future of 1:18 planes sold by vendors could well be in airshows, especially airshow exclusives.

Second:
MV shows are still an undiscovered gold mine for 1:18 vehicles. Flea market spaces at these big show are usually in the range of $15-$20. Even the MVPA Annual Convention costs $55 up.
As was pointed out, space bringing 1:18 pieces to a show might be a problem, but realize these 1:1 vendors bring big and heavy stuff to sell as a matter of course. Truck fenders, wheels and tires, even engines and whole vehicles are usually seen at a show. I have seen parts vendors with models and toys as part of their display.

The real problem is the manufacturer and the pricing. Increasing prices to bring out more of what we want makes less people want to buy. Also increasing prices and you bump into the next scale. 1:6 stuff becomes affordable to more and more people and the 1:18 hobby suffers. Availability and marketing are an even bigger problem and my pea brain has no answer for those problems.

We are talking about 1:1 MV shows and 1:1 airshows here, not your run of the mill Flea Markets, even the big regional ones.

Third:
Space for our hobby is a pain, I look at my 21C !:6 Little Bird and don't wonder why 21C didn't make more aircraft. Tanks, half-tracks, CC's and Jeeps can be displayed all over, stuck in any available corner. They certinally get the attention I want. !:18 stuff is my first love but should come with a feather duster. That's OK, the real thing usually had dirt and mud on it, so what's a little dust?

TTT

I think the long term future of 1/18 is not overly bright. The day will come when few if any new 1/18 scale aircraft are made (not sure about the future of tanks etc, which are smaller and compliment die cast cars nicely).

I suspect there will always be a trickle of new aircraft that come out but the days of 6, 7 8 per year or more, plus repaints are numbered. I would guess within 3-5 years things will slow down considerably.

There will always be new people that will buy particular aircraft, even though they are not aircraft collectors per se. A lot of non-aircraft people on this board have said they will buy an Avenger, for example, so that will always generate sales for popular aircraft types.

Also, people learn to adapt their space to their hobby. When i first started 1/18 i figured i'd have room to hang about 15 planes. I now figure i can get about 50 in the same space. You can get pretty resoureful, if you're motivated. I'm also formulating plans for acquiring more space for when i run out of room....which i figure will be in about 5 years.

As the economy ebbs and flows, as other temporary interests come along (eg Star Wars) and as the seasons change, the sales of 1/18 aircraft will rise and fall but i think overall sales will continue to be strong for the next few years. A lot of people are just catching on to this hobby now and don't have the space problems that the longer term collectors are begiinning to face. Most of us 1/18 plane collectors are pretty passionate about our hobby and will be very motivated to buy whatever comes along and then worry about where to put it.

But as i said above, one day the party will end, most probably. I've started making plans for that day and have begun to explore other ways of getting my 1/18 fix. Commissioning custom models, paper models, converting r/c models are just a few of the other avenues i've looked at. There is also the cottage industry (eg Build-A-Rama), scratchbuilding, shared projects (where a few enthusiasts get together to make parts for a whole subject) and one day 3D photocopiers and other such fancy technologies, which are getting cheaper all the time.

So, if one wants to, one should be able to indulge in this hobby for a lifetime..

I hope 1/18 continues to survive. I started with Star Wars figures and GI Joes, and started XD and bbi since they finally represented "realistic" 1/18 figures and vehicles.

Considering how much 1/18 stuff I was getting, I had to cull my model railroading collection. At the time, I had an HO, N, and O layout. Realizing I would never have a basement to hold all my various "habits", I decide to sell off my HO and N equipment and go to large scale trains. That way, I could use 1:20.3 railroad equipment with my 1:18 scale figures in diorammas. Also, some of the detail vehicles in HO and N cost as much as 1/18. So, for me, I've pretty much committed to 1/18.

Now, I already have so much that it wouldn't hurt if manufacturer's did stop, what is the fun in that?

As one of the vehicle guys AferG indicates can always be interested in unusual planes, as I have bored everyone to death with the statement "Where's my Avenger?" I agree, I can be interested in some planes, while still being interested in anythig repeat ANYTHING rolling along a road.

I have only two "planes", a Stuka and a n Apache. I also have the 1:6 Little Bird but that doesn't count in this thread.

While I have every vehicle 21c makes in 1:18 and will continue to buy no matter how poor the vehicle is (WC-63).

The future may well be in customs. In the 1:6 world there are guys who have cottage businesses building unusual tanks, trucks and everything else of interest. Prices are mostly hi (for the 1/18 world) but where else can you find true scale M-20s, M-3 Grants, Tigers half-tracks both US and German, even CCKW, Ambulances. Anything you want,..... for a price.

Maybe that's the only way we will get a Me-110, B-25, C-47 or even the normal 1/18 size planes everybody wants. A Zeke or a Me-262. Most of the 1/6 custom guys say "I'm gonna make 25 Panthers or M-3 Grants. Who is interested and who is willing to come up with a deposit?".

Most of the time it works and you end up with a rare and very special project.

I visited a board member with a beautiful 1/18 Jadepather (spelling) being built. Come up with another and I'd buy it.

TTT