Bbi Sakai Zero Review

vmf214 · Post by **vmf214** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:35 pm

Just unpacked my 2 Sakai Zero's, not too bad. The color of them is infact IJN light grey, not olive-gray and for some reason the prop is totally silver on both sides which is incorrect, rear should be anti-glare black, doesn't even have the 2 red tip stripes. The cowl is solid black vs the standard blue-black as well. The blue fuselage band seems a sukosh too narrow but looks ok. No change to the pilot fig naturally. Below are a few pics.

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Overall I like it regardless of the gray / olive-gray debacle.

Post by **aferguson** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:19 pm

looks like a greenish grey to me in your pics....unless that's the lighting. The badcat zero had silver on the rear of the prop blades too so i painted it black.

vmf214 · Post by **vmf214** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:28 pm

aferguson wrote:looks like a greenish grey to me in your pics....unless that's the lighting. The badcat zero had silver on the rear of the prop blades too so i painted it black.

Under varying light conditions including sunlight there's no green tint in my 2 examples that I see. Just very very very light IJN light gray which is damn near white.

If anything there is a slight tinge of tan in it maybe due to the use of a brownish color that was used for the weathering, not sure. I still like it in any case.

art2614 · Post by **art2614** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:11 pm

TAKE IT OUT OF THE BOX AND PUT IT TOGETHER!

vmf214 · Post by **vmf214** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:18 pm

art2614 wrote:TAKE IT OUT OF THE BOX AND PUT IT TOGETHER!

NO THANKS!

With at least 1 of everything military 1/18 ever made space doesn't dictate. Besides I handle these more than the avg bear doing Rufe conversions and all I need is another bbi zero in the way.

art2614 · Post by **art2614** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:49 pm

JJ But thanks for posting some pics, I was begining to worry with the other thread about this Zero and it having a green tint to it. from your pics it looks good to me

vmf214 · Post by **vmf214** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:57 pm

Yeah personally I prefer the olive-green but am still satisfied with it.

I think in the one pic it may look to have some green tint merely coz the pic was taken thru the window but if it's tinted green then I probably better hit the eye doc pretty quick.

hworth18 · Post by **hworth18** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:15 pm

Looks nice, could use the extras (black on propblades and stripes on front) and if these ever show up in a bigbox store I'll snatch it up.

King O' Fools · Post by **King O' Fools** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:05 am

Thanks for the pics, VMF214.

Well, they look exactly like the promo pics. No trace of green that I can see, not even a faint tinge of tan, IMO. It's basically grey.

Pa Deuce · Post by **Pa Deuce** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:15 am

puuurdy

I was going to pass since I had the green paint, but now I want one

Dauntless · Post by **Dauntless** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:08 pm

I still think it's too white. It's fine for you guys who don't have a PH Zero, but I was hoping for a more grey-green one closer to 21st's Saburo Sakai 1:32 Zero.
Though it has a red diagonal fuselage stripe which is probably not correct, but I like the closer to authentic color IMO of the grey-green.

Oh well, I'm in no hurry to get one now.

vmf214 · Post by **vmf214** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:00 pm

Dauntless wrote:Though it has a red diagonal fuselage stripe which is probably not correct, but I like the closer to authentic color IMO of the grey-green.

Actually V-103 was found and the red stripe is quite correct. Excerpt from report:

"The diagonal fuselage stripe was red and located a few centimeters behind the fuselage (hinomaru) and was approximately 15 cm in width. The fuselage was largely destroyed in the crash and an accurate measurement of the fuselage stripe width was not possible."

At any rate the PH zero isn't really correct either, if there is any olive in it at all it's so subtle you practically have to tell yourself it's there and strain your eyes. The best depiction of the correct olive-gray color is the model hworth posted, that's perfect.

I go thru dozens of cans of IJN olive-gray so maybe I'm just used to how it is supposed to look. I compared the PH zero and the Sakai zero side by side and both are close but not exact, the PH zero is definitely darker but not by much.

Besides, the researchers have argued for years on the debate of gray vs olive-gray and most still don't agree, think what we have here is the same debate with our Bbi zero.

One example of the zero color debacle is the silver scheme, several will swear that no solid silver A6M2's ever saw combat.. Sakai himself states they most certainly did as he's flown them...now that's good enough for me.

Dauntless · Post by **Dauntless** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:49 pm

So the 21st 1:32 is closer. It, I believe has the same paint hue as the slightly different one hworth posted.

What's the point in buying this one then? except for custom fodder. They can't even get the stripe right, and yikes I forgot about those rivets.

Got plenty of Zero's don't need another inaccurate one.

sicqnus · Post by **sicqnus** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:00 pm

At the end of the war, because of a lack of funds or bombed factories, some squadrons did not received enough paint to cover the planes. Some had the grey factory primer and the "spaghetti camo" because in some cases they didn't have enough paint to cover the whole aircraft so they had to improvise.

You have pics of aircrafts of the same squadron (Imperial or Navy) mixed on a painted/unpainted/partially painted basis. See the Ki-43 "Oscar" (Hayabusa) posted below.

On a side note, the US forces had to make cost cutings on paint at the same time. That's why for example, the insigna red disapeared from the winged stars on the side of the Navy planes during the late 1943. Winged stars were white and Insigna blue. Late 44, only the white parts were painted (no outlines).

Obvious lack of paint on these two :

Unpainted silver A6M2 Reisen type O :

Post by **aferguson** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:57 pm

the dapple or pawn frawn camo often seen on ijn and army fighters was also more effective camouflage. Similar to the german dapple camo applied to their late war fighters. It hid the planes better in the trees, where the sunlight woud shine through in patches and because of all the strafing in both theatres, planes were hidden in the trees whenever possible.

The japanese also had natural metal aircraft. This was not strictly due to paint shortages but was an attempt to gain a bit of speed and altitude (due to less weight and drag from the paint) to compete with the modern US fighters and B-29's. Of course the Americans had unpainted aircraft on a large scale in the final year of the war for the same reasons of speed and altitude gains...plus it sped up production a bit. Since the allies had air supremacy by that point the lack of camouflage was not seen as a big problem.

vmf214 · Post by **vmf214** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:11 pm

aferguson wrote:the dapple or pawn frawn camo often seen on ijn and army fighters was also more effective camouflage. Similar to the german dapple camo applied to their late war fighters. It hid the planes better in the trees, where the sunlight woud shine through in patches and because of all the strafing in both theatres, planes were hidden in the trees whenever possible.

The japanese also had natural metal aircraft. This was not strictly due to paint shortages but was an attempt to gain a bit of speed and altitude (due to less weight and drag from the paint) to compete with the modern US fighters and B-29's. Of course the Americans had unpainted aircraft on a large scale in the final year of the war for the same reasons of speed and altitude gains...plus it sped up production a bit. Since the allies had air supremacy by that point the lack of camouflage was not seen as a big problem.

Agreed. I've never read anything substantiated about Japanese paint shortages, the obscure schemes were done and meant to be camo, not that they quit painting due to running out of paint. Also the primer base was ALCLAD and was silver however often if left exposed faded to a dirty gray color and often peeled off altogether.

The pic posted of the zero that appears silver that has "T.A.I.C." (Tech Air Intel Center) on the horizontal stab is in fact white and I'd say the pic has been doctored as it should have an RAF roundel on it, not a Japanese hinomaru.

Popular tactic with wartime films and such, how many Dauntless' have you seen being portrayed as Japanese fighters with their US insignia doctored to look Japanese...

NWarty · Post by **NWarty** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:20 am

Wow! The silver Oscar and Type O A6M are awesome! Love that anti-glare panel on the Zero's cowling and fuselage top.

This has probably been one of the most informative threads I've seen anywhere in regards to WWII aircraft. I've learned a ton of stuff that I thought was false/true.

I'm not a fan of the Sakai Zero and won't be purchasing one. To me, the paint scheme is boring. Yes, Sakai's accomplishments as a fighter pilot are historically important, but the decision to do this scheme has me scratching my head. Don't we already have one "white" zero?

I would have loved to have seen a Zero repaint done in the green/grey scheme, spaghetti pattern or silver like above. The Soloman Zeke would have been awesome. A lot of cool choices out there that the manufacturers seemed to ignore.

Like I said, it's an important plane because of its pilot, but a boring color scheme in my opinion.

vmf214 · Post by **vmf214** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:51 am

The anti-glare strip on top of the cowl was applied post-capture by the British.

Yeah I'm quite sure the Solomons scheme will be a home run and Bbi does still intend to do it, now allegedly by the end of the year, we'll see. Beauty about the splotch scheme is if it has some errors with the splotches ie. overspray, uneven, whatever, it'll still be correct! These were done in the field and were far from uniform and perfect, no 2 planes looked exactly the same. So Bbi, MAKE IT ALREADY!

With lack of noseart and inability for the pilots to take the "flying circus" approach with their aircraft the only thing that really seperates Zero's is their fuselage bands and tail insig regardless if it's gray or green over gray. That's why Bbi needs to kick out the Solomon's bird already, imo.

I don't really think it's a matter of "already having a gray so why do another". Both aircraft were quite significant, PH is a no brainer but Sakai was one of the top high scoring "confirmed" Japanese aces that survived to live a long life after the war. IMO just the fact the man flew his aircraft home safely after being riddled with bullets (body too as he lost an eye and had only one good arm to fly with) then gave his report prior to reporting to medical speaks volumes about the man himself and this was practically a requirement for Bbi to do.

Japanese air fans have been asking for a Sakai plane since the PH zero and Bbi listened which is quite cool.

sicqnus · Post by **sicqnus** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:51 pm

About Saburo Sakai :

Several years ago, a former Dutch military nurse contacted the Japanese Military, attempting to locate a Japanese fighter pilot that spared her life over New Guinea in 1942. She was flying in a Dutch military C-47 at low altitude over dense jungle. On board were 11 wounded soldiers and 6 children being evacuated from a combat area. Suddenly, a Japanese Zero appeared alongside the plane. It is not hard to imagine their panic as she and the children began frantically waving, hoping to ward off an attack. After a few moments of terror, the Zero pilot waved back, gave a quick wing wobble and flew away. The C-47 erupted with cheers.
For over fifty years, this Dutch nurse wanted to meet the pilot who had spared their lives. The Japanese Military located that pilot and it was none other than Saburo Sakai, who had been flying combat air patrol on that day. Sakai had thought about downing the C-47 for a moment as was the order of the day, but seeing the waving hands and terrified faces, he was moved to mercy.
Here's how Saburo tells it in one of his last interviews which can be read by following a link at the bottom of this page:

"It was me. That was in the Dutch East Indies. This was during the bombing of Java. The order was to shoot down any aircraft over Java. I was over Java and had just shot down an enemy aircraft when I saw a big black aircraft coming towards me. I saw that it was a civilian aircraft - a DC-4. As I flew closer I saw that it was full of passengers. Some were even having to stand. I thought that these might be important people fleeing, so I signaled to the pilot to follow me. The pilot of the aircraft was courageous enough not to follow me so I came down and got much closer. Through one of the round windows I saw a blonde woman, a mother with a child about three years old. So I thought I shouldn't kill them. As a child I went to a middle school for two years, a school I was later expelled from. While I was there I was taught by an American, Mr. Martin. And his wife came to the class to teach us while her husband or the other teachers were away. She was good to me. And that woman in the airplane looked like Mrs. Martin. So I thought that I shouldn't kill them. So I flew to ahead of the pilot and signaled him to go ahead. Then the people in the plane saluted. The pilot saluted me, and the passengers. I don't know where it went: either to the United States or Australia. I couldn't find out. But a few years ago I came to find out where that plane went back to Holland. Newspapermen from Holland came to visit me to find out if it was true. Well, anyway, I didn't respect my orders that day but I still think I did the right thing. I was ordered to shoot down any aircraft, but I couldn't live with myself doing that. I believed that we should fight a war against soldiers; not civilians."

NWarty · Post by **NWarty** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:20 pm

Great post sicqnus

vmf214 · Post by **vmf214** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:24 pm

Yup great post, I had forgotten about the DC-4 account. I had also read an article about his abhorance of the Kamikaze idea and that his pilot skills and kill record likely kept him from be officially charged (or killed) for some of his comments. I would've bought one even if it were solid silver with no markings just coz of the pilot, just me.

Killerf6 · Post by **Killerf6** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:00 pm

Well I just received my Sakai zero, and all I can say is wow! I love it.
It only makes me regret not getting a PH zero even more.

Post by **aferguson** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:17 pm

i think i'm going to get one and repaint it like the Rabaul Zero in sicqnus post on page 1 (5th picture down). Not quite the same zero version but i don't care. I decided that now that the solomons zero is so uncertain.

sicqnus · Post by **sicqnus** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:33 am

Go for it.

The BBI Zero is a lovely detailed bird. Pretty small and fragile compared to the rough 21st stuff but in scale and again, very detailed.
So... I passed on the Pearl Harbor Zero as soon as I heard about the upcoming Sakaï Reisen type-0 (It was great news). I wanted a "white zero" (obviously light olive-gray but under flashlight - see pic - or under the sun it looks white) mostly because of the 1970's TV serie. Anyway, if you can afford it, it is great bang for the bucks IMHO.
I'm also from a mechanical point of view a radial engines lover. And on the BBI Zero it is very nicely detailed.

What's cool ?
First, the color is right. It has been debated here but BBI got the color right. A light Imperial Navy olive-gray. Very nice.
Second, the paintjob is well made, clean and the airbrush finish is really enhancing the look of the plane.
Third the proportions are correct. The front, the cockpit canopy, etc... Even the wings are made in one piece which keeps the good dihedral angle. The landing gear is also well made.

What's not so cool ?
Small plane, small parts, light construction... You'll have to be patient during assembly. The wings fits pretty well to the fuselage but it took me 10 minutes of tries before doing it right. The detailed inner cockpit and guns, are appart. To do what ? To put them together (???) and see that it doesn't fit... (nerves crisis ahead), I eventually managed to get it inside the fuselage, but I had to break a little piece inside (Arrrrrgh !

Also, making the two guns enter the holes is pretty... Arrrrrgh !). No big deal anyway... It's done.
The flaps are movable... a - very - little bit. And the way they are fixed is pretty uncommon. Don't play with it too much, I'm not so confident. But they look good, that's all that count.

Last but not least, the tailwheel. I should say : the damn moth...fu....r tailwheel ! I had to be very patient on this one : After fifty tries, I took a break, I took a beer, I killed the dog and I finally managed to get it - locked - out without breaking everything. Had to use a tool BTW.

Finally.
The work BBI did on this one is incredible. It is great value for money and you can feel the increased quality between the first 1:18 airplanes and this one. Thanks to BBI for making it real.

Note : It has been reported by a fellow SSMH member the the propeller blades red stripes are missing. No big deal. There are plenty of Hobby shops selling decals sheets of color stripes of many colors and size. The back of the blades could also be painted black with a paint parker (see Gundam Markers) if needed.

vmf214 · Post by **vmf214** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:00 pm

Whew! Finally! What researchers studying hundreds of actual artifacts could not discern over almost 60yrs Bbi solved with a couple models!

j/k

Actually the color Bbi used is based on the Sweet color Pantone 5783U which was an "in theory" color match and could be called "correct" to satisfy what so many have been led to believe after looking at b&w photos and watching episodes of Baa Baa Black Sheep. Tamiya's XF-76 gray-green was developed based on actual paint chips from surviving Pearl Harbor Zero relics and is considered by many researchers to be the closest.

Since IJN "light" olive gray is not a color mentioned in the actual Japanese documentation for finish of Reisen aircraft it can hardly be called "correct". By theory and preference I suppose you could but by actual studied data from actual relics, it can not. Actually here's an excerpt from a maintenance manual published by the Kaigun Kokuu Honbu (Naval Air Headquarters) which at section 3.1 under 'airframe structure' states that:-

Toryou wa kouzou naibu ni toumei toryou (tan ao iro) wo mochii gaimen wa keikinzokuyou tokusho toryou (hai nezumi iro) wo hodokoshi hyoumen wa migaki shiage nari.

and translated: The paints to be used are transparent paint (light blue colour) for the interior and special paint for light metals (grey rat colour) for the exterior, and the surface is to have a polished finish.

This alone shoots all kinds of holes in current beliefs. Also an interesting fact is the Army used the olive-grey color as well as noted on a surving army aerial camera.

Below is a good example of the 3 primary allegedly "correct" colors representing "olive-green":

The differences are quite obvious. Further research on the Gaia and Sweet colors is as follows:

The Gaia paint is based on the grey green 'M' series in Kariki 117 which some researchers have suggested are cockpit interior colours. It is a light to mid-toned green between Munsell 7.5 GY 5/2 and 7.5 GY 6/2. It is nothing like Tamiya XF-76 or Sweet #1, saturated or un-saturated!

The Sweet colour matches Pantone 5783U, cited in the instructions for Sweet's diminutive 1/144th scale Zero models and supposed to represent a 'scaled' version of the Zero colour. It is very similar to the RAF colour Sky. A brushed out sample of this paint is darker than the RAF Museum chip for Sky but lighter than the current BS 381C chip for 210 Sky. It is nothing like the Tamiya or Gaia paints, saturated or un-saturated!

So, with all that said the colour debacle moves forward.

Personally I find the Bbi zero pretty solid, the removeable cockpit is a neat feature and once one gets the hang of how it is properly installed it snaps right in (as have snapped in dozens). A little hint to cockpit installation is that on alot of examples the holes in the cowl have some flash left over and prevents the gun muzzles from properly protruding so you may want to run a blade thru them just in case so you don't break one of the guns loose (have done several times coz the holes "looked" big enough), also no need to force the assy in, if it's lined up it'll go. Tail wheel could've been done better as stated but if grab it as close to the pivot as possible it's pretty easy. Also I have found no 2 zero's wings seem to fit in with any type of comparable ease. Installation is best achieved with the belly facing you and pushing up on the nose while pressing in the 2 tabs on the wing, pops in like a charm but make sure the roots are seated! A 5yo can fix the prop easy enough, my point was why did they skip such a simple detail?.. Concur it's a sweet model (except for the over riviting...).