JSI disapointment

[AMERICAN_GRENADIER]

although i am very excited and happy that 1/18 has a savior. im disappointed in the price increases across the board. The fact that they are using existing molds and many of their first products are re issues they have increased wholesale pricing by 35 to 40%. In a meeting once 21C managment told me that they pay far less for repaints. new toolings are ofcourse far more expensive at first do to cost of development. it just gets under my skin that they have raised prices when things are alittle tougher right now for retailers.
What do you guys think?

[c44]

Welcome to the new economy...

[Panther F]

I would have NEVER thought they would get cheaper, just because of the economy. They got mouths to feed too as well.

[cornbreadfred]

Things don't get cheaper....GEEZZZ

[AMERICAN_GRENADIER]

i didnt expect cheeper but 40% increase?

[Grilledcheese]

Who doesn't like cheap XD? But it is what it is. If the market can't bear the prices, the product won't sell, and JSI goes back to whatever it was they did before. If it does sell, JSI makes money and produces more stuff.
Such is life.
I've always wondered if 21st shot themselves in the foot by aiming too low price-wise. Maybe they were gambling that deals with WallyWorld would bring high enough volume to make up the difference. Sure, it got them lots of exposure. I guess we'll never know.
Bottom line, free market economy rules.




Jeffrey

[mkxiv]

JSI is looking to market there products as limited edition adult collectable models. Each product will come with a custom made box and limited edition certificate. This is a much different philosophy than that of 21st Century who had always marketed there products more as toys than collectables. 21st would make huge productions and use one basic generic box for every release with no limited edition number or certificate.

Limited production numbers and elaborate custom made box would be the main reason for the price jump.

In reality this is a very good thing for the hobby. Small productions mean quick sellouts and in return small turnaround time for new productions.

My only gripe with JSI would be: choose the right scheme! A Bong P-38 is a no-brainer!? Why release the Putt Putt when its already come and gone?
The Pappy Corsair is ok but BC has already done it. In 1:18 the paint schemes are key to a products success.

Stepping down,

Isaiah

[flayrah]

It's impossible to see what JSI is offering until it's on the shelves and if their product justifies the prices. But I do suspect they won't have the volume sales to depend on like 21st did. WalMart won't buy; Target and ToysRUs are questionable, there are no really MAJOR on-line dealers to offer the models in bulk, so JSI will have to depend on smaller dealers and low volume. I suspect they also plan on using sales of established models to support their new F-15, F-14, etc moulds.

[aferguson]

well, most of the 21c stuff isn't really good enough to be considered a high priced adult collectible. Nowhere near on a par with Dragon, Tamiya etc. They're nice and they're big, but that's about it. Each piece is rife with inaccuracies, big and small.

It looks like JSI may be dolling them up a bit, with zimmerit and new add on bits for the halftracks etc but the basic vehicle is still the original 21c mold.

The higer price tag is most likey reflective of lower production runs and a perception by JSI that they can get it. We'll all find out in time if this hobby will support these prices or not or if the Bravo Team way is the better way..

[Birddog]

If JSI is going the route that Isaiah is saying they are, I'm for it.

I too think it will be the right thing to keep this hobby alive and bring new product to the table.

[VMF115]

I seen this trend coming a mile away a few years ago.
This has always been a teen/adult hobby

[digger]

JSI goes back to whatever it was they did before.

Oh, like make 21C's products?

Btw, it is really hard to keep up with all the JSI threads - there about a dozen. Maybe we need one JSI sticky (even though they have yet to release one piece ).

[Teamski]

Limited production numbers and elaborate custom made box would be the main reason for the price jump.

In reality this is a very good thing for the hobby. Small productions mean quick sellouts and in return small turnaround time for new productions.


Isaiah

I think that we are going to be in for one big disappointment if this is the case. While I agree that we can't expect the $39.99 that we used to see, having an item go for twice that will most likely just kill the hobby altogether. The price point has always been a major concern when dealing with these things. Hell, that was why I got into it in the first place. There is no way I am going to fork out $90 for an item that cost just $40 a few years prior. This scale will be getting into the Franklin Mint range before long and I don't think that stuff makes any decent gain in value over time as I believe that if an item was high priced up front, it's desirability drops. IMHO, High price point, low numbers= elitism, which = dead hobby.

-Ski

[tmanthegreat]

I agree with what Aferg said a couple posts back: the price increases for JSI probably have to do with a more limited production of their items, whether they are repaints or new toolings. Actually, I am fine with this for the most part as it seems JSI is catering to the collectors.

That is actually the avenue 21c should have taken. Part of 21c's demise resulted from the fact that they thought they were bigger than the company actually was and greatly overestimated the demand for their products and the complications of their production.

[digger]

That is actually the avenue 21c should have taken.

So many people balked at prices of 21C stuff in the last few years. "$XX for a trailer??" "$XX for the 88??" "I'm going to wait to see if they are marked down further..."

To say they should have gone with higher prices, whatever the reason, is a little off-base.

[iflabs]

They're offering up a F-14 and F-15 in 1/18 scale, so it's all good.

The past few years of 1/18 models and only BBI had the balls to put out the F-16 and F-18. The rest off the stuff by everyone else were outplayed WWII. So I'm really rooting for JSI here.

*Am I glad Modern Warfare 2 is coming out instead of another WWII game.

[coreystinson]

although i am very excited and happy that 1/18 has a savior. im disappointed in the price increases across the board.
What do you guys think?

I think this is reality. First, you may factor in the effects of inflation. Second, you may factor in the cost of government meddling vis-a-vie these draconian new testing requirements, and third you may factor in a probable lack of mass retailer support.

All these things come together with higher pricing. Now, personally, I too think the whole thing will flop because many collectors already have these products and are not going to plunk down more money for higher priced items that they already own, especially in this economy. I hope Merit doesn't end up taking a bath on this, and I hope JSI doesn't take a bath either, because I really do want to see these new modern jets because I think that will excite collectors to buy, and I want them myself too!

[coreystinson]

They're offering up a F-14 and F-15 in 1/18 scale, so it's all good.

Probably time for me to remind everyone that these items have been proposed only.

[coreystinson]

So many people balked at prices of 21C stuff in the last few years. "$XX for a trailer??" "$XX for the 88??" "I'm going to wait to see if they are marked down further..."

Consumers need to be broken of this "waiting the retailer out until clearance" mentality, and I have told several manufacturers so. This will only be cured by shorter production runs so that the snoozers end up being the losers and having to buy secondary market (eBay, etc.) at higher prices. Manufacturers are damaging the marketplace by running excess quantity of products which prompts the consumer to play this waiting game. It's not good for anyone in the end.

[coreystinson]

IMHO, High price point, low numbers= elitism, which = dead hobby.
-Ski

I don't know about this. Some people just don't want to be locked out of the hobby by higher prices, but there are certain economic realities to consider. The days of $39 1:18 scale Avengers are over, over, over. Those of you guys who were subsisting on prices like that are now done I suspect. I think this hobby has been existing in a bubble in the same way the real estate market was, and that bubble has popped, and at least one major bubble participant is out of business.

[King O' Fools]

I'd rather JSI (if they actually come up with all the goodies they have shown us, and we've been fooled before; in fact, just recently) improve their QC procedures compared to 21st anything-goes BS strategy (I take it they actually thought "BS" stood for "business solution" at San Leandro) if they want to stay in business longer than it will take them to actually release those models. Which is probably never. How many promised repaints have we seen from AT and BBI recently (as in the past year)? None, perhaps?

What does it say about JIS's actual commitment to this hobby that this new wunderbar toy company has announced THREE new aircraft to go along with a gazillion repaints? Not much, if you ask me. I don't care about preorders nor flashy boxes anymore. We have read here that the Bush Avenger artwork was already approved by the man himself, but still no release... Why, we even had flashy graphics made for the Phantom, which turned out to be just that eventually, an invisible plane. And some etailers were still taking pre-orders for it a few months back. How to take the supply side of this hobby seriously anymore?

For all we know this could be The Most Anticpated Release of 2009. x 20.

[iflabs]

I think that we are going to be in for one big disappointment if this is the case. While I agree that we can't expect the $39.99 that we used to see, having an item go for twice that will most likely just kill the hobby altogether. The price point has always been a major concern when dealing with these things. Hell, that was why I got into it in the first place. There is no way I am going to fork out $90 for an item that cost just $40 a few years prior. This scale will be getting into the Franklin Mint range before long and I don't think that stuff makes any decent gain in value over time as I believe that if an item was high priced up front, it's desirability drops. IMHO, High price point, low numbers= elitism, which = dead hobby.

-Ski

People are buying up Falcons, Hornets, Hueys, Cobras on ebay at premium prices because quantities are limited.

I think the appeal of modern jets in 1/18 scale is enough for it to sale at higher prices and limited quantities.

Not sure how WWII planes or rereleases will fare off at higher prices though.

[[CAT]CplSlade]

I think the appeal of modern jets in 1/18 scale is enough for it to sale at higher prices and limited quantities.

Not sure how WWII planes or rereleases will fare off at higher prices though.

Even though I am a 1/32 collector for the most part, I do have 6 1/18 craft (Avenger, Corsair. 109, F86, Mig15, 262 Nightfighter - couldn't resist the Monkey on that one) because they have significance to my personally - notably my paternal grandfather flew Corsairs and F86s for the Marines.

But I tend to agree WWII may not fare so well unless simply astounding and rarely-at-that-size planes come forth, especially something manageable at the twin engine level like the much-requested B25, BF110, Mosquito or freaky like a P61, Do335 or Devastator. Heck, I'd crap my pants publicly to even find those at 1/32 but I think they need to lay off the umpteenth iteration of a Mustang, 109, Zero, etc until the previous market's saturation starts to dissipate.

But that is hard because you can't draw in newbies with less familiar aircraft and only the niche hobbyists would likely know to desire other examples of WWII (or Korea and Vietnam, for that matter) air power because we always get the same stock photos in our history lessons. The whole B-17 versus B-24 thing.

At any rate, I wish the best of luck to you larger scale guys as I think at times the success of your segment of the hobby trickles down to us smaller (non-1/72) guys. Case in point: 21st didn't show me any 1/32 Kubelwagen love and I am an ardent VW fan (Funny story, a coworker gave me his 1/18 Kubel years back which I kept at my workdesk. When I quit, I forgot to clear the shelf it was on and left it behind - I was commuting to this job by MTA at the time - and by the time I realized it was forgotten the new manager had tossed it. Well, maybe that really wasn't funny. Not to me, anyway.)

[dragon53]

JSI DEALERS:

If the JSI models are limited edition, do you have any idea of how many copies per model will be released?

Since the F-15 and SU-27 are tentative, is JSI receptive to suggestions for alternative paint schemes for them?----I'd like to see a USAF F-15E, 4th TFW, Seymour Johnson AFB.

[Black_Dragon_One]

JSI DEALERS:

If the JSI models are limited edition, do you have any idea of how many copies per model will be released?

Since the F-15 and SU-27 are tentative, is JSI receptive to suggestions for alternative paint schemes for them?----I'd like to see a USAF F-15E, 4th TFW, Seymour Johnson AFB.

remember these might not just for the U.S. market.. if it is for the Chines market no matter what we said they have there mine set...