How do they decide which schemes/planes will be made?

ExC17load · Post by **ExC17load** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:50 pm

Im just curious. Im sure the veterans of this forum probably know, but how do they decide which schemes and planes will be made? I know they choose planes that are popular (i.e. P-51s, Spits), but how do they choose the paint scheme?

Why a Navy bombardment invasion Spit instead of a regular RAF invasion Spit? Why Old Crow instead of Glamorous Glennis? Both are well known.

Again, just curious to see if their was a lot of research and/or study involved or simply throwing a dart at a bunch of pictures and seeing what hits.

Anyone know? Im sure TKO does.

Also, I apologize to all if this has already been discussed before hand.

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:54 pm

Most of the decisions were simply what they thought would sell at a given moment. A lot of 21st's paint decisions were made by the owner of the company, in his own special way. Other issues that get involved with the decision making is the royalties, yes the royalties to the families of the pilots themselves if they hold a copyright on the paint scheme. You ever wonder why Bong's "Marge" was never made?

-Ski

AMERICAN_GRENADIER · Post by **AMERICAN_GRENADIER** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:59 pm

[quote="Teamski"]Most of the decisions were simply what they thought would sell at a given moment. A lot of 21st's paint decisions were made by the owner of the company, in his own special way. Other issues that get involved with the decision making is the royalties, yes the royalties to the families of the pilots themselves if they hold a copyright on the paint scheme. You ever wonder why Bong's "Marge" was never made?

-Ski[/]
I agree with everything you said. Except for one missed point. Nazi Germany no royalties need be paid to the looser. deals are made with serviving pilots but anyone killed before the end of the war, michael wittmann for example dont get any payment for thier families name.

vmf214 · Post by **vmf214** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:03 pm

Well when they decided on the CIA Huey (whilst claiming a Zero was a dead seller) it involved inserting their brain vessel in their anal cavity!

I heard rumor that 21st wouldn't do a Bong version because everyone and their dog already did...Corgi, Armour, etc. They wanted versions that weren't common....don't know if true. But if think about it, if BCA didn't commission Boyington's plane as their own exclusive, would 21st have made it.....doubt it.

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:07 pm

wow

AMERICAN_GRENADIER · Post by **AMERICAN_GRENADIER** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:10 pm

I think you make what sells. If someone else does it who cares. look at Wittmann everyone does them and everyone sells them. 21C was making a 1/18 wittmannn tank and cancelled it. why?? It would have sold like crazy at thier price point.

vmf214 · Post by **vmf214** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:23 pm

AMERICAN_GRENADIER wrote:I think you make what sells. If someone else does it who cares. look at Wittmann everyone does them and everyone sells them. 21C was making a 1/18 wittmannn tank and cancelled it. why?? It would have sold like crazy at thier price point.

See my brain vessel blurb above for explanation..

ExC17load · Post by **ExC17load** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:26 pm

Well I did wonder why they never made the "Marge" P-38. Makes sense about royalties. I suppose there has to be some rhyme and reason to the decision making process.

I guess in the end its about making money and not honoring history or heritage and there are facets about the process that only the CEO knows about. I just wish there was more history and heritage than money. I read in one post that people fought and died in these machines, on both sides. That should matter as well in my humble opinion, but then again Im military and love military history. Most of the planes from the Luftwaffe were flown by guys who didnt survive the war.

History over money is probably why Im doing what Im doing and not running a business.

Thanks for all the information and thanks to Teamski for not only taking time to post, but for his site/photos. I have visited it many times to get information about a particular airframe.

ExC17load · Post by **ExC17load** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:29 pm

I do have to agree with VMF214 on the CIA Huey. Yes they flew over there, but that was one bird I was never interested in. Now the Hog gunship? That was a winner in my book.

Makes you wonder how the meetings went when they discussed each new roll out. Oh to be a fly on the wall...

vmf214 · Post by **vmf214** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:43 pm

Well a point of fact about 21st's CEO and it's been mentioned here from time to time.. He has a history of ruining companies. This guy has to be giving the moron Donohoe over at ebay business advice...

I always pick on the CIA Huey, while it's not a totally "bad" scheme per say....a different scheme would've sold much better I'm sure. Heck imo the Sahara Huey they never made would've been better. I am curious about the royalties issue. I know Bong's family guards his history & memory fervishly but even Yat Ming did this scheme...and while their planes are nice they aren't exactly "top o' the line" even for their price point which btw has recently skyrocketed. But that's the Chinese for you, never have been too concerned about royalties, patents, trademarks, etc..

If 21st does stay alive in 1/18 and imo that's questionable, without Roy Sutherland I doubt we see too many good things to come...just my opinion.

ExC17load · Post by **ExC17load** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:57 pm

Well thats really sad if its true and I know ebay is becoming next to useless. I think that you raise a good point. A lot of the schemes would have sold much better if they were used, but hindsight is always 20/20 and its easy to see a bad scheme after the fact, then before.

I feel that if they had brought more people who truly knew the history, things may have been different, or maybe not. You can never know.

Bong's "Marge" would have been magnificent next to "Pudgy", "California Cutie" and the others. Too bad.

BTW, the CIA Huey is not a bad one to pick on

chunks · Post by **chunks** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:16 pm

Some links I've found for the monogram kit of "Marge". Loved that kit, got three of them for, ohh I donno, about 2 bucks each to make Marge, droopsnoot, and the nightfighter. Also found some recent after market decals for "Marge".

http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/p ... 38j_48.htm

http://www.waterholes.com/~dennette/mod ... /monogram/

http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/rmx/rmx855479.htm

http://cgi.ebay.com/Revell-Monogram-P-3 ... 7008r23195

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/R ... rev648.htm

The family might be careful, but certainly not unreasonable.

vmf214 · Post by **vmf214** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:21 pm

Yeah that Monogram kit was awesome, built it as a kid and have an original release in the old artwork nib in my kit collection. Maybe...21st should've saved their dough on the CIA Huey and used that scratch for royalties to make Bong's bird..

ExC17load · Post by **ExC17load** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:23 pm

A 1 18 scale droopsnoot and nightfighter would have been awesome. Thanks for the links!

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:38 pm

They throw darts and flips coins along with Eeny, meeny, miny, moe.

ExC17load · Post by **ExC17load** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:59 pm

Sometimes I think thats what they do

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:05 pm

VMF115 wrote:They throw darts and flips coins along with Eeny, meeny, miny, moe.

Well my guess would be that they put all the WW2 names on pieces of paper on the ground. Choose somebody and make him spin around until he gets dizzy. After the chosen one falls on his face his nose picks the next subject.