ADMIRAL TOYS UPDATE

Birddog · Post by **Birddog** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:27 pm

Last week I had the honor of talking to Jason from Admiral Toys about our hobby. Jason educated me a bit on the current state of the industry and gave me a little insight to share with everyone on what Admiral Toys is up to.

Here is a bit about the state of the industry and hobby that Jason passed along to me. Many of them we have probably heard many times, but they ARE the current factors that Admiral Toys and others must overcome to get the models we love to completion.

1. The cost of labor in China has risen.

2. Higher cost for the raw materials to produce. Plastic is petroleum
based.

3. Higher price of shipping. Also due to the higher cost of fuel and oil.

4. China has made a bad name for itself in the recent past because of
quality control issues, specifically paint. This has caused extra costs
due to new inspection processes.

5. The current economy. Investors are shying away from investing in
anything, especially in toy companies that have a bad history in the
past with quality control. With banks and investors not
giving out money, needed funds for projects aren’t there.

With all the factors above, the cost of production at this time would price many items out of the market.

Now, with all that said, here’s a huge silver lining: Admiral Toys is not down and out of this hobby by any means. Here’s some information I’m sure you will be happy to hear.

SBD Dauntless:
The SBD Dauntless is still going to be produced. The reason for its long delay is due to the re-design process it went through to correct problems that fans gave input on. Other reasons for the delay include facility issues and difficulty in obtaining raw materials needed for production at a reasonable price. No release date has been set yet.

A-1 Skyraider:
The Skyraider is still going to be produced but with a few changes from what was originally planned. The Skyraider will still have an opening cockpit, prop that will turn, and all the air brakes will function. It will also have a full, removable ordinance package that will be accurate to each branch of service that is represented by the model. In other words, you can’t get the ordinance package from the Navy Skyraider with the Air Force Skyraider. The changes that are being made in the Skyraider’s original design are:

1. Landing gear options like bbi’s 1/32 F-4 Phantom and many of the 1/72
scale models. You will get a set of deployed landing gear to plug into
the model and a set of landing gear retracted to plug into the model.
This will allow for better, more accurate looking landing gear. No more
tires that look to thin or struts that aren’t detailed enough.

2. A wing option much like the landing gear option. Instead of a folding
wing, there will be a piece that allows you to basically plug the wing in
the straight “ready for flight” position or in the folded “ready for
storage” position. This will once again take two concerns out of the
picture, wing sag and an inaccurate look and position of the wing when
folded.

No release date or time frame has been set yet for the Skyraider.

Jason also commented that the F-4 is still in solid form as a prototype and is not out of the realm of possibilities. It’s a matter of waiting for a better market to accept the cost, not just the collectors.

Artillery is a definite go in the near future for 1/72 scale and it has strongly been discussed for 1/18. Admiral Toys would love to produce ground equipment.

Jason didn’t go into depth, but he did tell me that Admiral Toys is working on other projects outside the military market. He did want me to stress to all that Admiral Toys is trying with all its might to complete production of all items stated in the past and will work with the current market as best they can. They ARE NOT giving up and fully expect to have a record year in production and sales in 2009.

Jason also wanted me to point out that he will not be on the forum to answer any questions until things clear up and they have a firm handle on where the market is going. Out of respect to everyone, he does not want to make statements that may change in the near future. They appreciate all of the fans that support them and are still keeping there ears and eyes open to what the fans want.

I’d like to thank Jason for once again taking the time to share this information with us and can’t wait to see where Admiral Toys will continue to take us in the future with this hobby.

Grilledcheese · Post by **Grilledcheese** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:55 am

Outstanding intel, Birddog. Good work, and thanks.

And thank you Jason.
We'll keep the light on for ya'.

Jeffrey

Black_Dragon_One · Post by **Black_Dragon_One** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:57 am

ya the landing gear and the folding wing is really an issues...

i lose a lot of little peaces.. and if i lose the landing gear there goes the peace...

if the f4 1/32 is the main reason for refrance i think bbi did a big injustice with the landing gear..

i saw the bbi f4 landing gear it feel more like a model... which adds more parts.. the landing gear for the f4 don't close so well...

i like my birds with working landing gear

Black_Dragon_One · Post by **Black_Dragon_One** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:01 am

at should make it possible for those who want working landing gear to buy them ans install them in there own birds.. make the landing gear a box unit that can be screw on or take off and replace with an additional working landing gear at the customer own cost...

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:24 am

BD One. Working gear is cool but you must realize. It takes time and money to do this. It is alot cheaper to have 2 sets , up and down than to make it work. THIS KEEPS THE PRICE DOWN. I love the idea of a hinge insert this to WILL KEEP THE PRICE DOWN. Also rememeber the Avenger ? The hinge was the main reason it took so long to get it out to us and as stated it had those sad looking droopy wings. If you foldded them too many times the hing broke. The same with the Corsair. How may of us have broken wings there ? I for one. These are great ideas. Thanks for the intel !!!!

B-29 · Post by **B-29** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:32 am

Black_Dragon_One wrote:at should make it possible for those who want working landing gear to buy them ans install them in there own birds.. make the landing gear a box unit that can be screw on or take off and replace with an additional working landing gear at the customer own cost...

I agree. The landing gear is the only reason I don't have 1/32 F-4. "Optional position" gear is fine on small models, but in 1/18, the model loses something. Same with the folding wings.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:38 am

I am fine with both as long as they look good...and I do mean good.

Post by **aferguson** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:27 am

working gear is nice but optional gear may be the future of this hobby if it keeps costs down and hence makes the difference between an item being produced or not.

Because of the fragility of folding wings, retracting gear etc i usuallly just leave my planes posed one way.....in fact i've glued alot of my folding wings in place to prevent sag.

Aside from the cost, if greater realism can be acheived that's a nice bonus in my books.

I'm sure very simple undercarriages will continue to be retractable, but many aircraft, especially modern jets have pretty complex u/c. If the choice is between an optional set up or one that retracts, probably unrealistically and adds cost to the model, i'll choose the optional idea.

I like the idea that AT is looking into 1/18 artillery and maybe other ground pieces....very hopeful. (Jason we need a 1/18 T-34).

jlspec · Post by **jlspec** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:19 am

Great info, Thank you

vmf214 · Post by **vmf214** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:22 am

Good intel, I don't think I've ever looked forward to a new plane as much as the SBD. As far as the landing gear. If it keeps costs down to do the optional then cool. I agree with aferg that the future of landing gear in 1/18 may very well be the optional way. Retracts are cool if they're done right..

FieroDude · Post by **FieroDude** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:34 am

I agree with the idea that swappable landing gear may be the trend of the future, and especially on aircraft with complex landing gear mechanisms. It allows for much more detail (it would be possible to have hydraulic lines and such) because you no longer have to allow for it to move out of the way when folded or extend when deployed. And it allows for greater strength--I have seen more than a few birds with bowed or broken gear because it had to be made thin enough to be movable in the available space.
And how often do you go through and do a simulated landing, deploying the gear as you go? Either it's on a shelf parked or hanging and in flight. Not somewhere in between.
If it will improve visual accuracy, speed time-to-market, and improve durability while reducing costs, I'm all for it.
And in case you are worried about losing the parts, a tackle-box (or for some of you guys, 5 or 6 tackle-boxes) works great for storing gear, parts, etc.

ww2collecter · Post by **ww2collecter** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:50 am

OK, I will admit, I dont post much. Just mainly read on wants going on and whats new to come out.

But lets face it. Its been slow this year on the 1/18. So if they have to make seperate parts for Gear up or Gear down and the same for the wings. So be it. At least we will get the aircraft in our hands and THAT should be the only thing that matters.

We know these companies do a good job on detailing and i think they wont shortcut the Gear and Wing issues.

Lets just get the aircraft out and enjoy want they are producing for us.

c44588 · Post by **c44588** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:03 am

Well, seems to me to be a pretty weak statement of the health of the 1/18th model biz. Sorta liken it to " the fundamentals of our economy are basically sound". And "Jason is no longer available for comment...." sorta says it all.....

I would think if the business really was expecting to continue, the Dauntess would have been an easy one to at least forecast a time that we could expect to see it. 4thQTR08 or something like that. After all, it has been a LONG TIME since we last saw the 'final pre-production' version advertised. China or no, they should have had a model out by now.

As time goes on, people lose interest; hell, with the time were seeing here, people DIE of old age! I think we are all unfortunately "whistling in the 1/18th scale graveyard."

Post by **aferguson** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:12 am

i dunno......i think 2009 is going to be a pretty good year for 1/18.

immeww2 · Post by **immeww2** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:23 am

I hope so.

c44588 · Post by **c44588** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:24 am

....based on what, other than people like you and me posting our 'wish lists' on sites like these?

Please tell me, because I really WANNA believe! I really do!

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:13 am

I sure do hope that the A-1 will also have options for a removable shield the covers the engine.

I would like to have ground servicing the engine while it is on the ground. Any removable access panels?...I hope there will be. It sound like that 21st maybe out of it for sometime, maybe out of it indefinitely. But the hobby has evolved with more detail in access panels and now engine detail like the bbi Me-109.

olifant · Post by **olifant** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:14 am

I really like both the detachable landing gear and the detachable wings. Good call Jason.

Thanks for the intel birddog!

Birddog · Post by **Birddog** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:17 am

This hobby isn't dead as far as Admiral Toys is concerned. Don't take Jason's brief absence here as a doomsday sign for the hobby. The market has changed quite a bit as we all know and he wants the information that he gives us to be solid. Not speculative or false. As a collector in this hobby I really appreciate that.

As for the landing gear and other options that are similar, I'm all for it. Like Fierodude stated in his post, think about the extra detail this could allow for. Isn't that what people want, accurate detail?

You're welcome and thanks truly go to Jason and the gang at Admiral Toys.

Grilledcheese · Post by **Grilledcheese** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:17 am

C'mon, guys, let's be dead serious for a second (yes, I know that's hard to do sometimes).
Your're telling me you would rather NOT have an SBD and a Sandy just because they don't have mechanically folding gear and wings?
Even though they ARE able to be posed in either configuration with a few provided extra parts?
AND be more accurate in appearance in the process?
You're kidding, right?
Doing it the way Admiral is planning actually allows them to give us a MORE accurate model in either configuration, and they reduce their costs, which means reducing OUR costs.

Goofy looking landing gear is one of the things that has irked me greatly about the planes released thus far.

But, as usual, maybe it's just me...

Jeffrey

Dauntless · Post by **Dauntless** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:14 am

I like the idea of optional folded wings and gear down. As long as the models look accurate, I don't mind these cost cutting measures.

I recycle religiously. Too bad I can't send my plastic directly to Admiral Toys. I would do that if I could.

Jason of Admiral Toys · Post by **Jason of Admiral Toys** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:35 pm

First, I would like to thank Birdog for posting our conversation. It was great to see you, as always, and I look forward to meeting with you later in the month.

I said that I would not be on this forum to answer question, but I feel it is right to comment on this thread and further explain our decisions and what is next for our company in this hobby. What I meant is that I will not sit here and answer the ubiquitous questions such as “will you produce this?”

Articulated landing gear vs. fixed optional landing gear:
As many of you have stated, the reason for the landing gear was a sound design decision. I like how FieroDude summed it up: “If it will improve visual accuracy, speed time-to-market, and improve durability while reducing costs, I'm all for it.” These are the four principals upon which this design decision was made.

A very costly aspect of manufacturing 1:18 models is quality control. I have read threads, received emails, talked to customers, listened to retailers and by far the most common complaint in this scale is the landing gear. As Rob Miller once stated, most of these model’s landing gear would not stand up to two minutes of play by a child or adult. So to limit ones quality control issues address the issue directly. By using detachable landing gear we can help to prevent quality control issues, give a more accurate model, reduce cost (marginally, cost does not reduce all that much. We will have more detail, paint and parts) and help to speed up production. And for those that say they will lose the parts… take a look at your kid’s Bionicals, Lego, etc. if a child is expected to keep track of no less then 100 parts, you should be able to keep track of two.

And to give you the real “skinny” on the more accurate aspect… just look at the left main gear vs. the right in the photo below. This is why removable landing gear will be great for the hobby. The left main fits in the wing. The right main does not:

As for articulated wings:
The prevalent quality control issue with aircraft produced in the past that have folding wings is the joint and folding mechanism. Many do not like the way the wing looks or angle when it is folded, many do not like the droop when in the flight position; many wish the hinge was more detailed and accurate. I am willing to bet that every person here that owns a Corsair or Avenger have looked at it and thought, or very vocally stated on this forum, how they would have done things differently because of some aspect of the moving part. Whether they were afraid it would break when moving it, or don’t like the look of the hinge, or don’t like the angle in folded position or sag in fixed position. I have read the post and do not want to read the same kind of posts regarding models we have designed.

During manufacturing, the wing assembly will spend approximately 30 seconds in front of the person putting it together and then moves on to the next person in the line. If these were made by a single person all the way through the process and that person was able to check and recheck his work then yes, I would expect a better working part. But that is not the reality of production on this scale. We have to work with the manufacturing environment and furthermore realize that manufacturing is a means to the end of placing the product in the hands of a collector. With all these issues riding on each and every model we produce the wisest decision is to keep the process as simple as possible. This is what we have done and we are very happy with the decision. As many here have stated… the vast majority display these models in a flying or parked position. We are still giving you both options. In my opinion, there will not be a lot of people flying their three foot wingspan Skyraider around and working the landing gear as they go.

I did not say anything about the SBD having optional gear. All the parts on the SBD will move. We are way to far in production to even think about changing that aspect of the model.

We also have the Hartmann working and “hope” to have production finished by the end of the year. You have seen the photos of the Hartmann and these photos are not of the final product. We have changed the paint technique on this aircraft and are very happy with the way it has turned out. I am sorry that I do not have a photo of the finished product. I did not take my camera with me to China during the last trip. But here is a close representation of the Hartmann, as you may have seen in the past:

Another aircraft that I have mentioned on this site will be out around the same time as the Hartmann. It is the El Diablo (which is Spanish for fighting-chicken or something) This is just a very rough initial mockup of the aircraft and will also contain a new paint process:

I also know you want to hear about any new projects that are in the works. You know I cannot tell you at this time what they are, but we have decided on two new 1:18 scale aircraft that will be produced and hopefully some ground equipment. I will leave it at that.

I hope this sheds some light on the decisions made and gives you a modicum of hope that the future of this hobby stills has light at the end of the tunnel.

Now I am signing off from this sight until I have concrete news to give you. What I have stated is all I have for you at this time. Hope all is well.

Regards,
Jason

vulgarvulture · Post by **vulgarvulture** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:04 pm

Oh, man. The F-4 prototype again. Someday!!

Thanks Jason & Birddog for all the info.

Birddog · Post by **Birddog** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:38 pm

Thank you as well Jason.

I appreciate the opportunity to spread the word on the great work ya'll do.

hworth18 · Post by **hworth18** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:49 pm

Welcome back Jason!
Thanks for putting collectors minds at ease, and we look forward to seeing new items from AT soon!