Need 1:18th collector's opnion on tiger re-paint

[Cabe]

I have an old 21stC 1:18 Gray Tiger I I have had for years
It is in excellent condition, but I am going to do a re-paint on it after I get a trade re-paint done for Ruger. I have mainly done re-paints on 1:32 since that is what I collect. But I really wanted to get down into the details (well with paint and other weatherizing tricks) on this tank and a 1:18th Sherman I have (foV)

So I was thinking of adding Zimmerit and painting it a Normandy or E. front camo.
But I thought about it and since I plan on selling this,
What does the 1:18th collector community think I should do? What would be most wanted or I guess sell able?
If you have a specific picture or color plate of the camo scheme, let me know. I have a tons of books with profiles I my have the same side profile you are looking at.

I guess throw me some sherman ideas or suggestions as well

If you are unfamiliar with my work since I am always haunting the 1:32 forum here are some pics of other tank I have mussed with.

btw these are for sale

[MG-42]

[+] > Hmmm ,.. dressing it w/ Zimm' is always a good idea to attract attn. A nice Winter scheme is always cool too ,.. but my favorite has been a paint scheme used in the July 1943 Kursk salient. A wavy combination of Dunkelgelb and Olivegrün , more like a cool shade , like a pastel , like a light or fern green hue.

...... of course choosing a scheme is always tough , but zimm is always a good idea to start w/. As far as Shermans ,.. I always liked a Winter white-washed scheme on them or something like what bbi did to their 1:18 - w/ 105' # 58 .

............ Good luck w/ it Cabe ! *


Mitch v MG

[Fritzkrieg]

Whitmann's Final Battle Tiger would be a hot seller.

[Cabe]

it would be fun to do the Whitman, but the Tiger would off on the variant.
My ow cable are stored top of th hull and there are some accessories, like the treads on the front, that I don't have. I could make to CO antennae which would be interesting,. It's still an idea.


On the Kursk camo, do you have a reference to it? maybe a link?
I could pour over my books, but I doubt i would find a plate labeled Kursk Salient, but I bet I could locate an e. front July 43 tiger profile to look at that sounds like what you are suggesting.

[ostketten]

I have an old gray 21st Tiger like yours that I'm gonna repaint one of these days, It's gonna be based on a Tiger from 4./SS Pz. Rgt 1, April 1943, Kharkov with a gray basecoat and gelb camo pattern. It's really nothing fancy or very complex as Tiger camo schemes go, but sometimes simpler is better, and I like the way this looks as it is not all that common. I may eventually do a 1/16 RC Tiger in this same sheme as well. You can see pics of this scheme and others here.. http://www.alanhamby.com/paint.shtml scroll down a bit, it's the fifth tank pictured, with a turret number of 405. BTW, the schemes pictured here all came from the 2 volume set by Jean Restayn "Tiger I on the Eastern/Western Front" which I have in my library, both are excellent and I highly recommend them. Good luck with whatever you decide, and post some pics when you're done.

[MG-42]

[+] > Hey Cabe ,.. the scheme I was referring to is on the cover of one of my reference books. TIGER in Action - Armor # 27 by Squadron/Signal Publications.

* I think the yellow in the scheme is more like a pale yellow than a dunkelgelb , now that I had studied it more.

.............. but whatever scheme you decide on , I'm sure it'll look great. *



Mitch v MG

[GooglyDoogly]

Only early Tigers fought in Kursk, and Kharkov, so a Late version of a Tiger would be inaccurate.

[MG-42]

* Duh ,.. Thanks Doogly. "I knew that". * Hmmm , then the FoV Tiger would be considered for this scheme instead , wouldn't it ? ... and or would the zimm on it be a factor ?

............. anyways , Good Luck w/ your selection Cabe. *


Mitch v MG

[Cabe]

I always wondered why the late late war tanks had no Zimmerit, i thought it was a time or supply issue, but you learn something new every day

from wiki :

Zimmerit was a coating produced for German armored fighting vehicles during World War II for the purpose of combating magnetically attached anti-tank mines, although Germany was the only country to use magnetic mines against tanks in great numbers. It was created by the German company Chemische Werke Zimmer AG.

The coating worked by providing a non-conducting, irregular surface that would reduce the area of contact between a mine and the tank's hull, as well as putting more distance between the hull and the mine. This would cause a magnetic mine to fall off due to its own weight and the vibration of the vehicle. Zimmerite possessed no anti-magnetic properties of its own, rather it defeated the mines by simply disallowing contact and providing distance.

Zimmerit was applied to all tanks and closed-top self-propelled guns produced from about August 1943 to September 1944. It was only rarely applied to open-top AFVs. The rough appearance of the coating gave a distinct appearance to the vehicles it coated.

Application of zimmerit was done at the factory, but it appears that a few vehicles received field applications before factory-applied zimmerit was actually available. The many variations seen in application designs, from the regular ridge-shaped pattern, to a less common waffle-shaped pattern, are mostly related to the factory producing each type of AFV. For example, the waffle pattern was seen almost exclusively on Sturmgeschütz III assault guns. In general, existing vehicles already in service were not given coats of zimmerit.

Zimmerit was phased out of use in September 1944. This may have been due to (probably baseless) concerns that projectile impacts could set the zimmerit on fire, which was proved false later. Application of zimmerit also added several days to the time required to produce each AFV, and this was unacceptable when a shortage of AFVs existed. Following the war the British carried out trials of a similar material on Churchill tanks but decided not to implement it. No similar material was used on post-war tanks, probably because the widespread use of man portable HEAT rockets such as the Bazooka rendered magnetic mines obsolete.

Ingredients

* 40 % Barium sulfate - BaSO4
* 25 % polyvinyl acetate – PVA (basically like regular wood glue)
* 15 % pigment (ochre)
* 10 % Zinc sulfide – ZnS
* 10 % sawdust

Vehicles with factory-applied zimmerit

* Panzer III
* Panzer IV
* Panzer V
* Tiger I - mid and late production models only
* Tiger II- early models only
* StuG III
* StuG IV - early models only
* Jagdtiger- Porsche versions only
* Jagdpanther - early models only
* Jagdpanzer IV
* Brummbar
* Marder III[citation needed]
* Horniss

[MG-42]

* Great info Cabe ,.. Thanks for sharing it. * + =

[+] > I knew that Zimm' was introduced late in 43' but didn't know exactly when.


Mitch v MG

[Panzer_M]

Vehicles with factory-applied zimmerit

* Panzer III
* Panzer IV
* Panzer V
* Tiger I - mid and late production models only
* Tiger II- early models only
* StuG III
* StuG IV - early models only
* Jagdtiger- Porsche versions only
* Jagdpanther - early models only
* Jagdpanzer IV
* Brummbar
* Marder III[citation
needed]
* Horniss

again this is not a blanket answer...production dates do play a huge part.
www.missing-lynx.com may help more since it does have experts on german armour production that chime in time to time to enlighten the masses.

Also and Oh Noes, Different firms used different patterns of Zimm to be historically correct(sorry OCD from a bolt counter)

[Panzer_M]

and doing this with the materials and dies to replicate it in 1/35 can be a PITA to do...esp on StuGs with the odd angles of the superstructure.

[GooglyDoogly]

* Duh ,.. Thanks Doogly. "I knew that". * Hmmm , then the FoV Tiger would be considered for this scheme instead , wouldn't it ? ... and or would the zimm on it be a factor ?

............. anyways , Good Luck w/ your selection Cabe. *


Mitch v MG

The FOV Tiger is a Mid-production variant, from what I can remember. So it's Mid features, like new commander's cupola, single Bosch headlight, zimmerit, etc woulnd't be accurate either for Kursk, since the Mid production variant was introduced long after Kursk.

If you really want to build a Michael Wittmann Kusk Tiger, your best bet is to combine an FOV and a 21st Tiger together. Here's what you should need to do:

1. Get at least 2 FOV Tigers, because the FOV Tigers lacked the outer roadwheels...which is a serious booboo on their part. Or you can simply cast yourself some extra roadwheels. You cannot use the FOV Tiger body and turret since it has zimmerit. The FOV Tiger has a much MUCH better shape than the 21st Tiger...but eh, what can you do?

2. Remove the single Bosch headlight from the 21st Tiger.

3. This is the hardest part. Remove the commander's cupola, and put a drum-style cupola instead.

Those are the major mods I could think of right now. Wittmann's Kursk Tiger also had the turret track links holder, and I'm not sure if his had the feilfel air filters...many early Tigers did not have them, so it's okay to leave them out.

Yeah it's a tricky mod. You're better off making a Tiger of another ace, like Carius. I believe he had a Mid-production mount during his fateful attack on Malinava. (A feat greater than Villers Bocage)

Or you can simply convert 21st to a true Late Tiger, and make Wittmann's Villers Bocage Tiger (turret number 222, 231, or 212), or the Tiger he got killed in, Tiger 007.

[Cabe]

any of these schemes work for you guys?
I am open to suggestions
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