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interesting info on the me-262 nightfighter
Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 10:26 am
by aferguson
http://www.modelingmadness.com/reviews/ ... mc262b.htm
according to the reviewer of this model, who is quite well respected, most of the info we know about the 262 night fighters is pure fantasy; including the existance of 'Red 10', the subject of 21c's model.
According to him, NO 2 seat nightfighers saw combat at all, only single seat 262's did using Wilde Sau tactics, and they are the ones that shot down mosquitos over berlin. Only 2 radar equipped two seaters were even in service but arrived so late in the war they had no radar operators and saw no combat.
I found this a little deflating.
[+] Me-262 Nachtjäger [+]
Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 10:34 am
by MG-42
[+] > Don't surprise me @ all . Glad I received mine as a gift then , anyway.
v MG
Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 11:10 am
by Panzer_M
well atleast one still is around in South africa...so it's not just a paper-projekt.
http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=LifnRbkFg-k
Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 11:48 am
by mountian-man
If you read all the way to the bottom of the page, you will find this addition. I also own a book with the image of Welter standing with british pilots on the wing of "Red 10" 262B-1a
February 2008
Reader Radu Brinzan (rbrinzan[at]hotmail.com) writes:
"Red 10" W.Nr 110635 is one of the aircraft captured by the British. On page 462 of "Me262 Volume 3" by J. Richard Smith and Eddie J. Clark, there are photos showing the aircraft, the red number 10, the serial number, as well as Oblt. Kurt Welter and Lt. Georg Czypionka assiting a RAF pilot in the cockpit. A profile of this aircraft appears on page 463 of the same book.
On page 59 of Model Art Special 367 "Messerschmitt Me262" there is a photo of "Red 10" with British roundels.
One photo of "Red 10" appears in "Jet Planes of the Third Reich" (Page 290), on page 65 of Merrick & Hitchcocks "The Official Monogram Painting Guide to German Aircraft 1939 - 1945" and on page 214 of Manfred Griehl's "Jet Planes of the Third Reich, The Secret Projects , Volume 2" (all from Monongram publications).
"Red 10" is not at all spurious. The only problem I can see with that decal sheet is that the "0" in "10" is a tad too wide and squarish. "Red 10" was also included in the Dragon and Heller kits.
BTW "Ltn. Kurta Weltera" is a Polish genitive of "Ltn. Kurt Welter" It is evident that Trumpeter were inspired by a Polish language book where the line read something like "the aircraft of Kurt Welter".
Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:19 pm
by aferguson
i missed that in my despair....thanks for pointing it out.
With so many records lost late in the war, all information stated as 'fact' has be treated as somewhat suspect and incomplete, i think.
[+] Me-262 Nachtjäger [+]
Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:41 pm
by MG-42
[+] > "Alle ist gut" *
... Mine ist still , even more special , now.
.....
hip hip ....... hoorayyyyyyy ! ! ! *
v MG
Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:46 pm
by tmanthegreat
I have a great and very extensive WWII aircraft reference book:
The Encyclopedia of Aircraft of WWII, ed. Paul Eden. London: Amber Books, 2004, which under the chapter for the ME-262, includes a section specifically detailing the night operations for the ME-262A and ME-262B.
I have quoted the pertinent parts about the operational history of the ME-262B with 10/NJG 11:
The only operational unit to fly the ME-262B-1a/U1 night-fighter was Kommando Welter, which had been activated at Burg near Magdeburg early in November of 1944 with just two ME-262A-1a single-seaters.
***
It was not until March 1945 that Kommando Welter (which had chosen to ignore its official redesignation of 10/NJG11 the previous month) recieved its first B-1a/U1 two-seaters; six examples were added to the similar number of A-1as being flown by the unit. While the single-seaters continued to hunt Mosquitos in the skies over Berlin, the two-seaters - being some 37 mph (60 km/h) slower - were now intended to infiltrate and attack the RAF's heavy bomber streams. It was a task in which they were singularly unsuccessful. It is believed that all 48 of the Kommando's kills (predominantly Mosquitos) were scored by the ME-262A-1a pilots. The two-seaters did, however, contribute two of their number to the unit's total of 11 losses: one aircraft suffered an engine flame-out during an operational sortie in March and the other was buried beneath a hanger roof in an allied bombing raid on Lubek-Blankensee airfield.
The account I have differs from aferg's source in that it notes that the planes did at least attempt combat, but were not successful. Either way, it still sort of makes the same point... I'll leave it to you all to be the judge as to what is most accurate