why no plastic modern jets?

dragon53 · Post by **dragon53** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:23 pm

I'd like comments from you veteran plane collectors as to why there are very few modern jets in plastic. BBI did the 1/18 F-16 and F/A-18 and the 1/32 F-4J. However, there are no F-15s, F-14s, A-6s, F-105s, A-7s, A-10s, etc., in 1/18 or 1/32 (the supposed 1/18 F-4 from 21st Century and Admiral are still up in the air).

There are many diecast F-15s, F-14s, A-10s, etc. but none in plastic.

There are numerous plastic and diecast P-51s, FW-190s, F6Fs, BF-109s, ME-262s, F4Us, TBFs,F-86s, etc.

I've seen a few post saying the stores don't want modern weapons systems (except there are numerous plastic and diecast Abrams, Bradleys, AH-64s, Humvees, etc.---but no modern jets.

Is there a perception by the manufacturers that consumers want an unlimited supply of repaints of P-51s and FW-190s, but not a single new F-15 or F-14, so they won't make them?

Any explanations?

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:55 pm

Size and cost factor may be one reason. Both the F-16, F-18, and F-104 are relatively small jet aircraft that could be broken down and put into a box easily, though the F-16 and F-18 were pushing it. An F-4, F-15, F-14, and A-10, for example, would be significantly larger. Even though a 1:18 F-14 would be very recognizable to the general public, the toy companies may feel that there's simply not too much of a market to justify the size and cost of making the aircraft.

Nevertheless, what I've said above does not mean I don't want to see any of those planes made... I'd get a 1:18 F-4 or F-14 in a heartbeat!

dragon53 · Post by **dragon53** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:05 pm

If BBI can release the popular F-4J in 1/32, I would hope they or 21st Century could release 1/32 F-15s, F-14s, etc.

I think it's ironic that 21st Century is named as such since, product-wise, they seem mired in the 20th century's 1940s. How many repaints of the FW-190 can they keep cranking out?---especially since there are no modern jets.

I love my BBI 1/18 P-51. If BBI would release 1/32 F-15s, F-14s, etc., I'd be in hog heaven.

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:13 pm

Well, you do bring up a good point. BBI was, in my opinion, very smart to make the F-4 Phantom in 1:32. It is actually more detailed than their larger 1:18 jets and certainly was not worth the financial risk that would have been associated with producing a 1:18 F-4 that may or may not have sold well and would certainly have been expensive.

1:32 jets seems a good way to go, especially when dealing with F-14 and A-10 sized jets. The scale is large enough to still get the "wow" factor (remember that the BBI F-4 is nearly the size of a standard 1:18 WWII fighterplane, and an F-14 would be even larger) and you can make the plane just about as detailed as its larger cousin, without as much risk. Also, your average buyer or collector will be much more likely to get the smaller plane as most people don't have room for a 1:18 F-4 in their bedroom or living room

dragon53 · Post by **dragon53** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:40 pm

TMANTHEGREAT:

I think if more plastic 1/32 modern jets like the F-4J would be released, they would sell and everyone would be happy---the manufacturers would make more $$$ and the customers would have modern jets instead of yet another FW-190 repaint. Remember, the F-15 is flown by the US, Israel, Japan, etc. The F-14 has numerous colorful squadron paint schemes, the A-10 also numerous paint schemes.
Unfortunately, in the real world, the alternative is 1/72 diecast F-14s and F-15s.

Build them and they will sell.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:15 pm

1/18 modren jets will come, it will take some time if they don't then then 1/18 scale aircraft will dry up, no big WWII twin's and no modren/post wwII jets, means only retooling the old stuff or make newer single engine aircaft...You can only go so far…at some point you will have to make them ..I call it the “large 1/18th bird barrier” break it and evry one will follow.

btw the F-8 Crusader is close to the length of the F-104/f-100/A-6/ A-7/A-4 give or take a few feet. I don’t see why those to will not get made.

dragon53 · Post by **dragon53** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:27 pm

VMF115:

For modern jets, I think BBI got it right with 1/32 which is ideal. 1/32 is not too big for stores or for taking up space at home and it's not too small for detailing, as BBI's F-4J proves.

I'd be happy if 21st Century downsized their 1/18 Steve Ritchie F-4D down to 1/32.

Also, F-15s, F-14s are bigger than an F-4J, so a 1/32 F-15 and F-14 are big enough.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:31 pm

Btw way I hope you have a good day dragon53,

it's 1/18 or nothing else, I have way to much money invested in this hobby to jump to a smaller scale.
besides 1/18th is way cooler then the 1/32 scale line anyday hands down.
Also if I wanted 1/32 jets I would make them myself.

Besides I think my 1/18 pilots would beat up the smaller 1/32 pilots and steal their milk money , Now I don't need that.

dragon53 · Post by **dragon53** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:17 pm

VMF115:

I still think a 1/32 jet is ideal

Also, if the size is a factor in 21st Century's delay of their 1/18 F-4D because it might be too big for the stores, I'd settle for a 1/32 Steve Ritchie F-4D---it's better than no Steve Ritchie F-4D at all.

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:30 pm

The BBI F-4J is the nicest model I have. I just love that thing.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:32 pm

I hope you do get a 21st 1/32 Ritchie F-4, but for me I want the 1/18 version.

Sorry, But I want this bird along with the other larger 1/18th birds so bad that I can taste it.

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:34 pm

No doubt an 18th scale F-4 will be awesome. Just wish someone would let us know if it will be made.

Coreyeagle48 · Post by **Coreyeagle48** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:09 pm

Greetings:

I honestly think that we have seen the end of any big 1/18 scale airplane for a little while until the situation with the retailers straightens out or stablizes. This includes big jets.

Someone said it best, the F-18 and F-16 are relatively small fighter jets. The F-4 and the others are pretty big and would need a different box. The BBI 1/32 F-4 came in a box the size of a 1/18 scale box basically. So before anyone makes a big aircraft, they will need to redesign their packaging and it will be quite an engineering feat. 21st learned this with the Avenger boxes.

I think for the companies to do a big jet, the costs have to be justified, and that means somebody (either brick and mortar or online) has to pick up a major order of the aircraft. I don't see a run of 500 being a money maker for a company these days and it wouldn't justify the cost. So someone will have to agree to carry these aircraft in order for them to make them. Right now, no one seems to interested in doing that.

And sorry, but I'd love a 1/18 Hurricane to go with my Spitfire.

olifant · Post by **olifant** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:35 pm

I really like my 1/32 Phantom, but will really LOVE it's 1/18 counterpart. Lets face it, this plane is begging to be made. The F-4 has to be one of the most recognizable planes and if we want to talk about foreign service, I think everyone bought these at one point or another.

USCGSARdog · Post by **USCGSARdog** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:18 am

As anti-1/32 scale as I am, I agree that modern subjects would be a winner in this scale. As stated before, due to the large size of the 1/1 aircraft, 1/32 jets would still work out to be as big or slightly larger than most of their WWII counterparts that have been produced in 1/18 scale. The WOW factor would still be retained, and brick and mortar stores would be more apt to put the normal sized boxes on their shelves. Its ALMOST a win win situation. I would without a doubt score every 1/32 jet made, so long as I couldn't get my paws on them in 1/18 scale.

Now, don't go thinking 'ol Rob is starting to migrate over to the 1/32 side of things. No sir. If a 1/18 F-14, A-10, or F-15E were to appear on the horizon, Those puny 1/32 birds would go directly to my 6 year old son's budding collection, without hesitation.

Money to burn and plenty of space....... 1/18 all the way.

-Rob

scbvideoboy · Post by **scbvideoboy** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:01 pm

of course there could be a license agreement thing holding up models.

Everything made now a days seems to have to be licensed. The back on the matchbox blisters is covered in license usage disclaimers...

DH

Come on pegasus! I need a X plane

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:44 pm

The reason why?

1. WWII stuff sells 100000% better than modern ones. Especially if its WWII German.

2. Average soccer mom won't buy little Johnny a big expensive airplane, especially if it looks too fragile. That's why PTE stuff are big sellers to parents who wants to buy their kids war toys.

3. WWII stuff se...oh, I already said that.

acisne · Post by **acisne** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:18 pm

The larger box/packaging issue can't be the reason. Look at the 1/6 tank, that box was huge and it did not stop WM and Sam's from carrying it. The 1/6 Little Bird at TRU also came in a large box.

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:57 pm

And are those big RC tanks still on sale at Walmart? Is Walmart still ordering more of them from 21st?

I don't think so.

And those 1/6 Stuarts and humvees and 1/9 Abrams have a toyish factor in them. They're big RC tank toys that Johnny would love to drive around the backyard.

But a detailed, obscure plane? Neh. I mean...if you're a Walmart manager and you see these shelves stocked full of 1/18th planes that never move unless they're on 9.99 clearance...would you go out and buy/stock more...and bigger planes at that? Chances are....no.

We have to admit a sad reality fellas. These planes are NOT big sellers outside of our hobby. That's why big retailers couldn't really give a crap whether they stock these things or not.

Because we seem to forget that Walmart and other stores are there to make MONEY. And if they're making money off these planes, trust me, they'd be clawing at 21st to produce more.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:10 pm

Unless it’s Christmas of Hanukkah toys don’t sell that well out side of those seasons, remember there are a lot of toys that don’t sell that well and will sit and collect dust…..the Dub collection of chrome cars and other bling, bling, don’t sell that well either at least in my area WM, it all depends on the market.

Also Bikes are a good seller but they don’t sell that well in the winter and it’s not that imposable to see them reduced a few hundred bucks to just under a hundred bucks, not every thing in a store makes money and is not supposed to some items are “loss leaders“

Heck if WM followed the rule of only carrying items that they make money on, then their stores would only be half their size.

Large retailers can take a loose on some items, while smaller retailers can not, but if WM knows at least a large enough group shops for 21st century 1/18 aircraft at WM what else will they buy there.

dragon53 · Post by **dragon53** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:17 pm

One of the reasons WW II planes sells more than modern planes is because there are very modern planes made. People can't buy what isn't made---"Build it and they will buy." (the BBI 1/32 F-4J is proof of that---both Badcat and Flyingmule have had to re-order the F-4J after selling out).

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:24 pm

dragon53 wrote:One of the reasons WW II planes sells more than modern planes is because there are very modern planes made. People can't buy what isn't made---"Build it and they will buy."

I agree.

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:44 pm

VMF115 wrote:Unless it’s Christmas of Hanukkah toys don’t sell that well out side of those seasons, remember there are a lot of toys that don’t sell that well and will sit and collect dust…..the Dub collection of chrome cars and other bling, bling, don’t sell that well either at least in my area WM, it all depends on the market.

Also Bikes are a good seller but they don’t sell that well in the winter and it’s not that imposable to see them reduced a few hundred bucks to just under a hundred bucks, not every thing in a store makes money and is not supposed to some items are “loss leaders“

Heck if WM followed the rule of only carrying items that they make money on, then their stores would only be half their size.

Large retailers can take a loose on some items, while smaller retailers can not, but if WM knows at least a large enough group shops for 21st century 1/18 aircraft at WM what else will they buy there.

True, but you have to remember that big retailers like WalMart operate under the idea of "variety".

They like to stock up on as many different things as possible. Because even if one brand or product doesn't sell, no big deal. One of the other many toys/brands would sell. So if they just waste a whole shelf on a product (like the 1/18 planes), what would be the point in that?

And you also have to remember that these planes are very group-specific product. While things like bikes are more universal.

But back to the original question. Why no modern planes? Honestly, just look at the military scale model hobby. WWII-related stuff are faaaarrrrrrrrr more popular than modern ones.

Am I saying that modern stuff don't sell well? Of course not. There are many of those that love to build modern warplane models. But for every guy that wanted to build a Block 52 F-16J, there are perhaps a hundred other people who wanted to build some obscure experimental WWII uber-mensch German fighter plane.

That's why manufacturers are more inclined to build another BF-FW-HE-190-109 German fighter than something more relevant today...say....an A-10 Warthog.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:22 pm

I also think WWII is a big seller simply because there is a bigger interest with it, however I know of an ex navy fighter pilot who flew the F-8 during the 1960 who has told me he wished there where more modern stuff , he likes the WWII stuff and buys it because there is no real post WWII jet out there other then the mig-15, F-86, f-104. He wants to see the Panther, F-100, F-105, F-8, F-4, F-14, F-15, F-111, A-6, A-4, A-7 a few of those can also be converted to Desert Storm I variants and aircraft for the 1980’s their glory years.

Simply WWII is far more interesting then say Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm wars, but I like all of them myself

dragon53 · Post by **dragon53** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:23 am

Modern jets DO sell well---look at the numerous diecast F-15s, F-14s, A-10s, F-4s, F-117s, F-16s and F/A-18s, etc. Even the F-22 is out in diecast. Dragon Wings, Corgi, Century Wings, etc. wouldn't keep making diecast jets if they didn't sell well.

Plastic jets don't sell because manufacturers won't make them.

I want plastic jets because, using BBI's very successful 1/32 F-4J as an example, they're more bang for the buck, have features like pilots, optional up/down landing gear and weathering. Also, 1/32 is the perfect size for jets while diecast 1/72 jets are often too small and too expensive.