Will we see a 1/18th F-4 and Mig 21 from 21st

[VMF115]

Will we ever see them,,, I was hopeing to here a little bit of news that would suggest we will see one this year.

[mountian-man]

The 1:18th scale F-4, Mig 21, and the B-25 in my opinion, and I am sure the opinion of quite a few others, were the most exciting and dynamic new model toys annonced by 21st century last year. The F-4 was slated for 2007 release. The idea that now, at the 2008 toy fair they won't even respond to questions about them is a bit pathetic. One would think that talking about the work and effort going into these models would be something to be open and proud about. The secrecy just shakes customer confidence and leads one to assume the worst. I can completely understand delays and troubles in developing something that complicated, but good lord, come out and say, "it is delayed", "on the back burner", or "just finishing production". General status updates wouldn't sacrafice trade secrets........but it would give some peace of mind.

[VMF115]

I am frustrated also, I know I am not the only here that wants to see one made, I just hope the powers at 21st will see fit to make them.

[aferguson]

i dont' expect to see any of them.

[Light.Inf.Scout]

I need that camo F 4 to sit alongside my camo F 104, and of course the Mig 21

[Sabrefan]

I think a simple way to find out about the F-4 is to ask TKO to ask Roy at 21st Century. A simple yes or no answer from Roy would be great.

[STUKA]

of the three - I hope to see the B-25 and if faced with all three and the ability to get one - would pick the B-25.
With the F-4 said to be released by 2007 - my guess is we will shhe her end 2009 - early 2010. Remember the reasons for all the Avenger delays - I am sure they will continue to find "little problems_ that will cause many months of delay. Of the three we will probably see the Mig before the other planes. Mig at TRU End 2008!

[tko211]

Well I can't say for certian myself as 21C now has a standing policy to not talk about those projects. Myself- I think that this is due largely in part to them being put on hold on purpose. I also suspect that this comes from a recent lack of interest from WM on large scale planes. I may be wrong and there may be more to the story but for now I believe that its a matter of waiting for the dust to settle. TRU could come on strong as so far that seems to be a direction. Meanwhile WM could realize that large planes still move well and are sorely missed? But YES I can confirm that 21C has instructed all of it's staff to not talk about 1:18 planes till they are ready to ship.

For better or for wosre this seems to be a standing rule for now. I DO NOT think this means the end of 1:18 large scale projects however.

[Threetoughtrucks]

At this point, given the recent statement that "the F-4 is dead" by 21C, I'd be suprised if we see ANY of the three (F4, Mig-21 or B-25). PERIOD.

Notice, nobody is saying ANYTHING about the AT Dauntless or the Skyraider, both of which were shown in prototype last year.

21c and AT, !/18 may be moving away from large planes. You plane guys may have to settle for smaller scales.

I've been saying for years, 1/18 is great for vehicles but the larger planes in 1/18 are always having problems with production. The manufacturers may just cut their losses and move to smaller scales...... Anybody seen any new 1/6 vehicles lately? Yeah, right....... and pigs fly.....

Time will tell. I'd sure like to be wrong, for you planeaddicts, .

TTT

[tmanthegreat]

I have my doubts as well, but will not rule out the eventual possibility The jets, despite their size, seem relatively easy to produce. The B-25 is another matter and will be much more complex than 21c's only other truly large aircraft to date: the Avenger. The manner in which the wings and landing gear will have to be supported worries me about the B-25. 21c couldn't get the Avenger wings to sit right and the B-25 will have much larger and heavier parts.

Then there's the issue of QC control and packaging. If I were the 21c management, I would be VERY worried about these issues. The company often cannot get those issues right with the smaller planes, let alone some of the larger aircraft. Probably as many as 60% of the Avengers I saw in person had some sort of QC defect whether it was broken parts, or botched markings. These large planes in the works would require sturdier construction methods, better inspection, and different packaging. I would certainly feel pretty sour after spending well over $90 only to get a plane that has broken parts and botched paint.

I find it funny that 21c wouldn't produce the A-10 due (partly) to size constraints, but wants to tackle the F-4, Mig-21, and especially the B-25. The fate of the A-10 could, in the end, be a signal of our prospects for seeing these other large planes

[Jay]

I don't think 1/18 planes are dying out. There is, and will always be a market for them. Maybe 21st has found a cash cow with their 1/32 line and their early 1/48 aircraft line - but the world has enough 1/32 and 1/48 scale models already. The 1/18th scale aircraft market (in my opinion) is one of the "special" collections were if those who are committed enough cannot buy the planes from 21st (or AT, BBi, Pegasus)anymore , then we'll simply buy 1/18ish RC planes or scratch build them ourselves......where there's a will, there's a way. OK granted the B-25 is a big bird and the F-4 is no sparrow either but think of the smaller models that could be produced. If you then package them more efficiently you can get quite a bit of plastic inside a carton - both admiral and BBi have proven you can get large scale planes into small boxes, which are no bigger than some toy rc cars seen in department stores, Just compare 21st's 1/18 corsair box dimensions with that of BBi's 1/18 corsair box(same plane - smaller box).

[Birddog]

.

Notice, nobody is saying ANYTHING about the AT Dauntless or the Skyraider, both of which were shown in prototype last year.

The difference here is that we KNOW what is going on with those pojects. We KNOW they are still being done. An update on the Dauntless was just shown on MTS's website February 14, 2008.

Great points on the easy production of the jets compared to what should be a nightmare doing the B-25 Tman.

What strikes me funny is even after AT has made it known that they are stepping away from the F-4 and pretty much giving 21st a big green light to run with it, 21st still won't talk and now sounds like they may not even follow through. Shouldn't be a surprise though, this isn't the first modern jet aircraft 21st has left us in the cold with.

After seeing AT's 1/18 F-4 in person, I reallly hope AT gives the F-4 another look.

[VMF115]

Thanks TKO, for the update I had no idea tha TUR or WM Had that much influence on those birds, Lets hope TRU and WM will change thier mind latter this year.

[dragon53]

So 21st Century is moving away from 1/18 planes....then they should release a 1/32 Steve Ritchie F-4D.

It worked for BBI.

[DocTodd]

Yes, it was the Phantom and AT has a prototype that looks really nice. I think that the competition issue from 21st has put a big hold on most 1:18 birds. Everyone is waiting to see what the other is going to do so therefore nothing. It will likely be a while before we see any new 1:18 planes other than repaints. I think it is possible 21st will do another version of the Spitfire and possibly the FW 190A in 1:18 but not much else in the near future.
Todd

[coreystinson]

I wouldn't be surprised if both 21st and Admiral were both secretly working on a major new aircraft release. It's what I'd be doing! Perhaps with 21st, it is actually one or both of the aircraft they announced last year.

For Admiral, it's a matter of reading the tea leaves and most certainly not releasing yet another aircraft that 21st also then drops onto the market three months later, effectively killing their ability to market more color schemes.

For 21st, they may be waiting for TRU to put some chips on the table as someone else suggested. I would think that 21st has the resources to put a big plane out for the specialty market only, at a higher price, and see if people would support it.

I don't care to predict anything about Blue Box as I have the "feeling" that their priorities are changing.

[vmf214]

Yeah I just don't get it. The A-10 way back when surely would've been a hot seller, the Phantom, and definitely the B-25. I wish some mutual agreement could be made between the companies not to make the same stuff. There's plenty of different aircraft to be made, why make dupes? Just don't get it.. Live and let live. Let AT proceed with the Phantom, 21st could've answered with the Mig-21, etc.

[FieroDude]

You would think in an industry as relatively small as this, that some sort of gentleman's agreement would work to ensure everyone's mutual success. However, I don't think that 21st wants the potential competition from the new kids in the game, and as a result, we as consumers suffer.
This issue has been a sore spot with me for a year now, and partially as a result, I haven't bought a single 21st airplane in a year (of course, they haven't really released anything original in that time either). I don't think 21st ever had any intention of building any of these 3 airplanes. They just wanted to make sure no one else did either. The fact that AT had a full prototype of the F-4 at the show last year shows they were well on the way to producing it. If anyone has seen a prototype, in any scale, of the F-4, Mig-21, or B-25 from 21st, we'd love to hear about it.

Sorry for the rant, but it has been a very disappointing year, both because of the lack of stuff to look forward to, and because I feel that in the end, the leader in the 1/18th market may ultimately be responsible for its downfall, at least when it comes to aircraft.

[olifant]

Call me cooky but I have faith that we will see an F-4 with possibilities of the Mig and B-25.

My guess is both AT and 21C surprised each other when they both built the ME-262. I think everyone is correct in the assumption that both AT and 21C are caught in a bind on the Phantom; it is kind of like playing Russian roulette. Do you go forward with your project fearful that the competition is doing so as well, or assume they are going forward and don't?

Relationships with competitors can be iffy; in the past we have had competitors who at one extreme would not even take our calls and had others who we would routinely sell materials to when outtages occur. It really depends upon the leadershop of both companies. I would not be surprised if AT and 21C have or will talk at some point, not about collusion but how to both make a profit. I am sure the dual ME-262 release hurt both of them badly and neither can afford a repeat with the Phantom. There are just not enough sales to make these double offerings profitable.

On a positive note we have had no 21C announcements on 1/18 Dauntlesses and Skyraiders, have we?

[DropTank]

21st has proven to me to be full of empty promises. I just consider the F-4, MIG, and B-25 announcements just as empty as the Boyington Corsair and the Bush Avenger. I can accept and understand setbacks with these projects, but the total lack of any insight what-so-ever by 21st after years of announcements of these releases, only to be followed by total silence, has left me with the impression of 21st being the little boy who cried wolf. After a while, perhaps some folks will not believe or care when 21st speaks.
Now I am not anti 21st at all !! I am appreciative of all their past efforts and enjoy all their earlier releases. Its just that I feel they should be straight with us in a way to keep us informed while still protecting their market. JMO

[vulgarvulture]

Everyone is bringing up good points.

The manufacturers have the given right to approach the market with whatever strategy they please. I'm extremely disappointed, though, with the outcome of 21st's strategy regarding the F-4, etc. So now we have an F-4 along with the A-10 in the 1:18 prototype plane hall of fame. Pity.

By the way, this is one 1:18 plane collector who's not just going to automatically shift scales to 1:32 or 1:48 if 1:18 starts drying up.

Can't wait for AT's Skyraider.

[dragon53]

For what it's worth, TheMotorPool.com still has the 1/18 F-4D listed as September, 2008 release.

[VMF115]

I think it was bad timing the main reason we did not see the 21st F-4 hit the selves, it’s not 21st fault that WM decided to drop or pull back from the 1:18th line of A/C lets just hope that we see them at TRU or back at WM.