POST ALL JSE F-14 QUESTIONS AND DISCUSSION HERE

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:13 am

STARMAN 352 wrote:Bad Cats is now saying the same thing...

DUE TO THE HIGH COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH SHIPPING THIS LARGE PLANE, WE ARE UNABLE TO ACCEPT RETURNS OR EXCHANGES ON THIS ITEM FOR MINOR FIT AND FINISH ISSUES.

So basically all sales are final when it comes to Bad Cat and the F-14. Nice cop out. I feel for those who aren’t privy to the paint fiasco and try to return their spotted cat.

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:14 am

stv9000 wrote:Gentlemen, This paint fix will cost you about $12 and a little patience. All you need is pollyscale easy liftoff. I use this on all the 21 planes with fingerprint weathering. I removed nose art and some kill flags, removed numbers on aircraft ( changed the 29 to 23 on first gen corsair). It works very slowly so its safe.
http://www.micromark.com/EASY-LIFT-OFF- ... ,7270.html

Thats a neat idea. Now it only removes small amounts at a time?

tkjaer21 · Post by **tkjaer21** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:16 am

I personally feel that perhaps as buyers that we "think" and "expect" too much from these manufactures.

Yeah, it is spotted and may not be up to par paint wise, however, what is done will not be fixed with this batch. The only thing we can hope for now, is that the future releases are up to par.

They do not owe us anything. If you have buyers remorse, that is your fault as it is not like you have not been aware of this issue. If you do not like the way the plane looks, then do not buy it and hope for a better future release.

Just my honest opinion.

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:28 am

I have never told anyone to not buy it if they want to get it...go for it. I have simply been saying that it's not ok for people to make excuses for it because that will only condone sloppy work now and in future. Many on here are afraid that JSI will get mad and not make more planes....pure nonsense. If there's a buck they'll make 'em, if not the won't. Simple. Others are afraid the negative talk will hurt sales and JSI won't be able to make more planes. Also nonsense. JSI is a huge company that can easily survive poor sales on this plane......and they deserve poor sales. They deserve to get hurt financially very badly, worse than if they'd just ponyed up the cash to repaint the lot, which they should have done in the first place. If my ranting and the ranting of others takes the shine of the diamond for people who have decided to buy it, too bad. You guys are happy, many, many are not and deservedly so.

I'm not complaining about loose canopies, rubbery radar dishes etc. That is no big deal and i would expect little problems like that. But huge spots over every square inch of an otherwise beautiful plane is a very big deal and not to be brushed off.

We had every reason to expect a decent to very decent paint job, given the preview photos we were shown and the price tag. But instead we were dealt a monstrosity.

It's the etailers i feel for the most, as i said. They are stuck with them and all the ensuing hassles they will bring with multiple returns, irrate customers etc. I think it would be in their best intrests to show honest pics rather than paint master pics but each of them has to decide how to run their business. I gather the ones not showing the honest photos are hoping people will be too lazy, too cheap or too indifferent to return them.

Regardless, JSI has really done themselves major harm going forward. Not only from their customer base but also etailers. If i were an etailer, i would definitely be thinking twice about carrying JSI products after this fiasco, given the complete lack of support/damage control they have proffered and the out and out misleading way they have done business. If an auto dealership were sent a bunch of deffective cars from their manufacturer who then would not fix them or take them back you'd be talking big law suit....and if it happened to many dealerships, class action lawsuit. Defective merchandise is defective merchandise and these spotted tomcats are defective. They fit the definition of 'significantly not as described'.

And sorry gang, i'll rant all i want. If you don't like it stop reading my posts. This is a world class disappointment and a screw up that absolutely never, ever should have happened and everytime i see someone down playing it, trying to hush it up etc i'm going to respond in a strong way.

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:33 am

aferguson wrote:I have never told anyone to not buy it if they want to get it...go for it. I have simply been saying that it's not ok for people to make excuses for it because that will only condone sloppy work now and in future. Many on here are afraid that JSI will get mad and not make more planes....pure nonsense. If there's a buck they'll make 'em, if not the won't. Simple. Others are afraid the negative talk will hurt sales and JSI won't be able to make more planes. Also nonsense. JSI is a huge company that can easily survive poor sales on this plane......and they deserve poor sales. They deserve to get hurt financially very badly, worse than if they'd just ponyed up the cash to repaint the lot, which they should have done in the first place. If my ranting and the ranting of others takes the shine of the diamond for people who have decided to buy it, too bad. You guys are happy, many, many are not and deservedly so.

I'm not complaining about loose canopies, rubbery radar dishes etc. That is no big deal and i would expect little problems like that. But huge spots over every square inch of an otherwise beautiful plane is a very big deal and not to be brushed off.

We had every reason to expect a decent to very decent paint job, given the preview photos we were shown and the price tag. But instead we were dealt a monstrosity.

It's the etailers i feel for the most, as i said. They are stuck with them and all the ensuing hassles they will bring with multiple returns, irate customers etc. I think it would be in their best intrests to show honest pics rather than paint master pics but each of them has to decide how to run their business. I gather the ones not showing the honest photos are hoping people will be too lazy, too cheap or too indifferent to return them.

Regardless, JSI has really done themselves major harm going forward. Not only from their customer base but also etailers. If i were an etailer, i would definitely be thinking twice about carrying JSI products after this fiasco, given the complete lack of support/damage control they have proffered and the out and out misleading way they have done business. If an auto dealership were sent a bunch of defective cars from their manufacturer who then would not fix them or take them back you'd be talking big law suit....and if it happened to many dealerships, class action lawsuit. Defective merchandise is defective merchandise and these spotted tomcats are defective. They fit the definition of 'significantly not as described'.

And sorry gang, i'll rant all i want. If you don't like it stop reading my posts. This is a world class disappointment and a screw up that absolutely never, ever should have happened and everytime i see someone down playing it, trying to hush it up etc i'm going to respond in a strong way.

I have a lot of respect for you Aferg and I'm not saying you can't be mad or rant. I just wanted the focus of this to remain on the manufacturer, not the customer.

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:34 am

stv9000: the lift off works on tampo printed markings but will it work on paint? And will it lift off the dark grey paint without ruining the light grey underneath?

Birddog · Post by **Birddog** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:38 am

JSI is a huge company that can easily survive poor sales on this plane......

Not defending JSI so no one get upset here, but I wouldn't be so sure of this comment.

I hope I'm wrong.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:59 am

Will every one relax for a bit......I am sure JSI will make this right..give them some time.

King O' Fools · Post by **King O' Fools** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:29 am

toyktdlgh wrote:
STARMAN 352 wrote:Bad Cats is now saying the same thing...

DUE TO THE HIGH COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH SHIPPING THIS LARGE PLANE, WE ARE UNABLE TO ACCEPT RETURNS OR EXCHANGES ON THIS ITEM FOR MINOR FIT AND FINISH ISSUES.
So basically all sales are final when it comes to Bad Cat and the F-14. Nice cop out. I feel for those who aren’t privy to the paint fiasco and try to return their spotted cat.

I hope they don't try to use that sorry excuse with the folks who pre-ordered theirs BEFORE this new policy came into effect and wanted to give their Spotcats a long hard look before deciding whether to keep them or send them back. (I'd venture to say that it would be illegal to implement these changes retrospectively, but even if it isn't, it would still be certainly unethical after all the "Oh, but it's not so bad" crap they have given us regarding the F-14.)

BTW, this would speak volumes of a sales strategy based on minimizing the spots until customers get an ugly surprise on their doorstep. "But haven't you read any of our blog postings? We WARNED you it had spots all over. It's a minor issue anyway. Ooops! Too bad! Can't return it now!"

And I really don't know what to make of this:

tkjaer21 wrote:They do not owe us anything. If you have buyers remorse, that is your fault as it is not like you have not been aware of this issue. If you do not like the way the plane looks, then do not buy it and hope for a better future release.

Excuse me? So it's now the CUSTOMER's responsiblity to scour the web for information on the F-14, just in case the manufacturer goes berserk and starts adding spots to a plane that should have none? Is that what your saying? Because this is taking the "buyer beware" admonishment a bit too far. In fact, this is what is sometimes called the "blame the victim" mentality.

And, yes, it's true they do not owe us anything. And vice versa. Which is why the "we should all be so grateful" schtick is getting old real fast.

Birddog · Post by **Birddog** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:45 am

I would still like to see the entire e-mail correspondence from the member who says they have heard back from JSI saying they don't see any problems. It could give insight into how/why JSI "allegedly" responded the way they did.

Not trying to defend JSI or a retailer, but as massive a situation as this has become on this board, I bleieve that if you are going to post what has been shared with you by a retailer or manufacturer on this subject, you should back up your statements with "documentation". It's not like this is some sort of secret that can't be shared. Otherwise it should be treated as hearsay, not the gospel. It may keep this from continuing to flame like it is.

Just my opinion of course.

Shin Densetsu · Post by **Shin Densetsu** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:24 pm

I hope that the next release just comes sans spots. The way the spots are applied, it sounds like a layered process. It's cheaper to just skip the weathering process altogether and that works in our favor:

Less work for JSI
No spots/complaints about the paint job from us

Win/Win situation and cheaper for JSI.

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:33 pm

BAD CAT wrote: Product Disclaimer: These large, magnificent aircraft are visually impressive collectibles. However, this F-14 is not designed to the standards of a high-end diecast display piece (like the much smaller 1:72 Century Wings line, for instance). A flawless museum quality model of this size could easily run $15,000. To make 1:18 jets affordable for the majority of the hobby community, compromises are made on accuracy, authenticity, and quality.

This Tomcat should be enjoyed from a distance and taken-in as a visual whole. Under close scrutiny, a critical eye could easily find multiple flaws/production deviations, including paint blemishes, paint accuracy, gaps in seams, excessive glue, fingerprints, fogged clear plastic, component angles off a few degrees, loose or tight fitting parts, etc.--all maladies more or less typical of the 1:18 "big plastic" genre. A perfect airplane of this size and in this price range does not exist. Discriminating collectors who require out-of-the-box perfection would be better served by our Century Wings, Corgi, or Hobby Master lines of diecast aircraft.

Some assembly of this model is required. A few parts may need to be carefully trimmed with a modeling knife, we find a bottle of super glue to also be occasionally useful (but keep it away from clear plastic pieces). This model airplane is built with many small parts which can break off if mishandled. Depending on an individual collector's personal preferences, additional work may be required to achieve the desired level of accuracy and quality.

DUE TO THE HIGH COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH SHIPPING THIS LARGE PLANE, WE ARE UNABLE TO ACCEPT RETURNS OR EXCHANGES ON THIS ITEM FOR MINOR FIT AND FINISH ISSUES.

I’m guessing the “Paint Accuracy” is to cover them if someone complains about the massive spots. When I think of paint accuracy issues I think someone might have used the wrong color or missed the correct markings. The fact that the plane may be painted in large grey dots doesn’t pop to mind. If there is to be a disclaimer on the paint why not accurately disclose it instead of hiding behind “Paint Inaccuracies”. You might as well just not say anything at all since the buyer will not be expecting the dots.

Here’s my disclaimer:

This is a highly detailed, well designed and extremely poorly painted aircraft with large dark grey spots all over it. From a distance, about 10 to 15 feet away, it’s not all that bad. Your plane may have lighter spots like the one shown above but expect most of them to be dark and obvious. Other than that it’s a great plane. If you don’t like dots don’t order this plane. NO REFUNDS ISSUED FOR COMPLAINTS REGARDING THE LARGE GREY DOTS.

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:35 pm

toyktdlgh wrote: Here’s my disclaimer:

This is a highly detailed, well designed and extremely poorly painted aircraft with large dark grey spots all over it. From a distance, about 10 to 15 feet away, it’s not all that bad. Your plane may have lighter spots like the one shown above but expect most of them to be dark and obvious. Other than that it’s a great plane. If you don’t like dots don’t order this plane. NO REFUNDS ISSUED FOR COMPLAINTS REGARDING THE LARGE GREY DOTS.

diegomenendez · Post by **diegomenendez** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:28 pm

wow, badcat is being such a bitch. they should show photos of the ones they got?

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:37 pm

diegomenendez wrote:wow, badcat is being such a bitch. they should show photos of the ones they got?

They have production model photos up but… it does seem to me that the spots are a lot lighter on their plane. I’m not sure if it’s flash bleed or just the fact that it is actually a lighter spot. Regardless they are still there. I know the special edition has very dark spots on it.

diegomenendez · Post by **diegomenendez** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:50 pm

Those are production photos from MERIT, not BadCar

At this point, I, and many, don't trust anything from Merit

pcoughran · Post by **pcoughran** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:20 pm

I got my production regular from my local hobby shop today ( they just came in and I was the first to pick up). I made them open it for me. All of thought the spots looked bad. Were they lighter than spec. ed - don't know as I didn't have one there to compare. Didn't look like it was oversprayed as the intakes red markings looked fresh or maybe they were done a second time as one looked "messed up" a little see pics later. I'm uploading pics as we speak will post next. I didn't put it together as it is a Christmas present so still in box but pics say it all - don't need to see the whole plane to see all the spots. I'm either fixing myself or sending to Zach for a fix.
pics to follow

pcoughran · Post by **pcoughran** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:30 pm

A couple notes: I took pics with flash and without in natural light so if they look different that is why. I didn't "autocorrect" anything. These pics are pretty much what it looks like. If you think it looks good then so be it - I think it looks awful.
The NAVY is on both sides so different than Zach's spec. ed which was missing one. One of the red intakes looks messed up. Also around the canopy the black on one side is not sharp like the other. There were a couple areas on the plane that had a smudge or run in the paint but not too bad - I didn't get a pic but can if anyone wants to see it/them. As I'm getting it fixed regardless I didn't look for too many flaws other than what others have noted. The gear doors are somewhat flimsy and don't seem to want to stay all the way shut, but I haven't played with it much or even pullled all the gear out. They close better than the pic below just didn't have them all the way closed.

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:34 pm

i think if etailers are going to have a no return policy then they better post an accurate photo of the F-14. To show the beautiful prototype and then send the spotted terror, is very misleading. To then refuse refunds could land them in hot water as lots of people contact their credit card companies to issue them with a refund, which they may be able to get if the buyer can prove they've returned the item anyway. Regardless if credit card companies get a lot of complaints about a single retailer, they'll take firm action. This is where JSI should be stepping in, offering to buy back any unwanted merchandise, paying reshelving costs etc.

Many are saying the spots look bad. Those that aren't were prepared for them. Most of the people buying these will have no notiion of the spots. Could be interesting.

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:35 pm

thanks for the pics. Spots are still very prominent. Looks like a He-219.

Is it my imagination or are the spots actually 2 colours in one? Looks like they painted a big blue grey dot and then a little darker grey dot in the middle of it.

pcoughran · Post by **pcoughran** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:40 pm

aferguson wrote:thanks for the pics. Spots are still very prominent. Looks like a He-219.

Is it my imagination or are the spots actually 2 colours in one? Looks like they painted a big blue grey dot and then a little darker grey dot in the middle of it.

The spots do seem to have two colors to them.
Aferg, I was the first at my local hobby shop to get it. They just came off the truck and were in the back storage area. None of the hobbyshop guys had seen it at all or knew about the controversy. After I made them open it up they all agreed it looked bad. I told them to make sure people who come in to get one saw one opened (they don't usually disply the 1/18 stuff as it is too big). Hopefully, they'll follow my suggestion. The owner wasn't in today I was going to see if he knew of this controversy at all.

mountian-man · Post by **mountian-man** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:52 pm

"NAVY" is on both sides!

STARMAN 352 · Post by **STARMAN 352** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:54 pm

I got my lighted version today and the spots are not as heavy but still there and the Navy is on both sides.
JP

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:55 pm

after a quick count and multiplication i estimate there are around 500 spots on each Tomcat. That's a lot of work removing one at a time.

Otherwise the model is gorgeous. What a crying shame this is.

stv9000 · Post by **stv9000** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:57 pm

The easy liftoff will remove the paint a layer at a time. It works so slow it may become frustrating. It also removes decales so be carefull. I would keep it away from any decaled area because the paint (spot) is under it.
If anyone does 1:18 decals, now the time for some f14 markings. I don't
have one so correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like it's molded in the base color (light goast grey).