POST ALL JSE F-14 QUESTIONS AND DISCUSSION HERE

pcoughran · Post by **pcoughran** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:36 pm

Yeah, it's a lot of work to do right. Especially if you have to make all the decals/markings yourself from scratch. And even with good decals, they don't beat the tampo print markings. You could easily spend another $80 to $100 on paint and decal paper, etc.. and that doesn't count all the time it takes to do it right. This is one big plane needing multiple coats of paint and lots of Future or Gloss to make the decals look just OK.

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:40 pm

Depending on how they applied the paint I'm looking at sanding down the spotted areas with very fine sandpaper and then trying to re-weather the finish. Hopefully I can do that without destroying the markings on it already. But it all depends.

Stug45 · Post by **Stug45** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:56 pm

for $300 you have to be joking, THIS IS A BIG FAIL

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:01 pm

Wow... I was trying to remain positive and hoping for better, but for the moment I feel sort of like this emoticon:

I'd like to hear about Aviatornut's review come monday, which hopefully will have pictures. Then, should my local Hobbytown USA store get these in, I'd like to see it in person before making a commitment.

The picture sent out earlier this week seemed to show more muted spots than the AWH version, so perhaps there still is some hope.

Shin Densetsu · Post by **Shin Densetsu** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:08 pm

Wow... I was trying to remain positive and hoping for better, but for the moment I feel sort of like this emoticon:

I'd like to hear about Aviatornut's review come monday, which hopefully will have pictures. Then, should my local Hobbytown USA store get these in, I'd like to see it in person before making a commitment.

Yeah same here tman. Looking forward to aviator nut and black dragon's review.

Even if the 2nd release lacks any weathering at all, it's preferable to getting all these spots over the markings. At least then we can get those those twelve dollar weathering sets from Hobbytown(forgot if they're from Hasegawa, but it's the powdered weathering kit) and apply our own weathering.

I wish the guy from Century Wings was brought onboard to oversee this thing. The lightup TCS, and inaccurate lights for the radar and VDI screens puzzle me. Maybe red for the original IR sensor but the TCS? No.

diegomenendez · Post by **diegomenendez** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:08 pm

Update on Saturday, December 5, 2009 at 05:55PM by Bad Cat Rob
It's worth noting that the further down the production run you go, the lighter the weathering spots. The Special Ed F-14 will have the darkest spots as it was the first produced. It is my understanding that some corrective action was taken as production progressed. The pic below at the bottom of this page of an F-14 standard was taken of a bird made at the end of the production run, I am told. BCAT's batch of standards will look closer to the sample shown below. The Special Ed will have darker spots like the one shown here, above.

My thanks to GeneralHawk59 for the pic of his Special Ed F-14.

We can only pray...

Ferrari250GTO · Post by **Ferrari250GTO** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:11 pm

There are pilot figures in the lighted one. Let's hope their skin isn't like the plane, or else you might catch chicken pox.

Shin Densetsu · Post by **Shin Densetsu** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:12 pm

It's worth noting that the further down the production run you go, the lighter the weathering spots. The Special Ed F-14 will have the darkest spots as it was the first produced. It is my understanding that some corrective action was taken as production progressed. The pic below at the bottom of this page of an F-14 standard was taken of a bird made at the end of the production run, I am told. BCAT's batch of standards will look closer to the sample shown below. The Special Ed will have darker spots like the one shown here, above.

The image from the bottom of the blog is the same image that drew complaints before the show though. Hopefully it's better in person but I think it won't be until we get the S2 that we get something suited to our tastes. Makes me wonder, if Aoshima is still going through with the Kawai Toys version, will it be under more stricter guidelines with regards to paint?

King O' Fools · Post by **King O' Fools** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:35 pm

You guys really think there will be an S-2 version? If they can't recoup their investment, they may have to fold up shop altogether as far as 1/18 is concerned.

diegomenendez · Post by **diegomenendez** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:38 pm

When you guys say S-2, you mean another bach of VF-84's? or a whole different Squad, because they made it clear, this is the ONLY batch of 84's

Shin Densetsu · Post by **Shin Densetsu** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:54 pm

It's worth noting that the further down the production run you go, the lighter the weathering spots. The Special Ed F-14 will have the darkest spots as it was the first produced. It is my understanding that some corrective action was taken as production progressed. The pic below at the bottom of this page of an F-14 standard was taken of a bird made at the end of the production run, I am told. BCAT's batch of standards will look closer to the sample shown below. The Special Ed will have darker spots like the one shown here, above.

A repaint is a way to recoup the investments, repaint as in another squadron, not VF-84. Even so VF-84 had a paint scheme in a bluish gray, small roundels, and white instead of yellow chevrons, and it does look significantly different than the VF-84 birds we are used to. I think we could see it in the future though I think Jolly Rogers Bombcat is more likely, retooling the GE nozzles would take care of most of it, then adding in the LANTIRN and LGB's.

Birddog · Post by **Birddog** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:55 pm

I was trying to hold out and be positive, but this has changed a bit.

I seriously doubt there will be an S2 version.

Well, I suppose the hopes for an A-10, the F-15 and Su-27 may be done now......

Shin Densetsu · Post by **Shin Densetsu** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:00 pm

I seriously doubt there will be an S2 version.

I think there will be an S2 version, the Tomcat was expensive to tool up and undoubtedly JSI wants to make all the money they can off of it. I just think that to being how the current Tomcat looks, the S2 will be a tough sell.

I think most fans were onboard for the Tomcat for the most part until the spots appeared. If this can be rectified for the S2 then some faith will be restored though admittedly, the spots should been rectified before production. I hope that the regular edition turns out fine but I doubt it's going to much different than what Badcat already showed.

P47faninchicago · Post by **P47faninchicago** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:01 pm

Betcha anything I can blend in those spots.

Birddog · Post by **Birddog** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:04 pm

Shin Densetsu wrote:

I seriously doubt there will be an S2 version.
I think there will be an S2 version, the Tomcat was expensive to tool up and undoubtedly JSI wants to make all the money they can off of it. I just think that to being how the current Tomcat looks, the S2 will be a tough sell.

I think most fans were onboard for the Tomcat for the most part until the spots appeared. If this can be rectified for the S2 then some faith will be restored though admittedly, the spots should been rectified before production. I hope that the regular edition turns out fine but I doubt it's going to much different than what Badcat already showed.

Trust me, unless JSI sells enough of these without alot of returns, returns equal big losses in this market for all invlolved, chances for more re-paints and all new tooled aircraft from JSI are far down the road if they survive.

I hope not, but time will tell.

glcanon · Post by **glcanon** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:10 pm

I agree with Dragon53... looks like JSI nailed the 1989 scheme "spot on."

<a href="http://s449.photobucket.com/albums/qq21 ... ed_Cat.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/qq21 ... ed_Cat.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Actually, JSI should hv learned from the 1/72 folks who released botched weathered birds... now they always release them in factory-fresh schemes.. and let the collectors add the weathering if they choose.

Century Wings already set the standard; they sold out every early-80's factory-fresh VF-84 scheme they released, just look how nice:

<a href="http://s449.photobucket.com/albums/qq21 ... ry_Cat.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/qq21 ... ry_Cat.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Shin Densetsu · Post by **Shin Densetsu** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:14 pm

AGREED with the Century Wings suggestion

Coreyeagle48 · Post by **Coreyeagle48** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:18 pm

Greetings:

Unfortunately though if they did that this entire board would probably complain the F-14 had no weathering. I can hear it now.

"There's no weathering. I'm cancelling my preorder and never buying anything again in 1/18. How could JSI do this to us"

I feel for the companies, they can do nothing to provide anyone any enjoyment in the hobby anymore. Nothing is ever good enough, paint wise, detail wise, size wise, whatever. They can't win, especially in this community it seems.

That's not saying JSI's F-14 is right or wrong, we all have our opinions. No need to rehash them here. That is stated based on being on this board a long time and seeing people's reactions to the different pieces that have been produced. I give the companies a little bit of credit for trying to please this fan base, which seems to be extremely difficult if not futile.

Corey

diegomenendez · Post by **diegomenendez** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:28 pm

had there been no weathering, ya I would have been pissed, but it's easy to add weathering, sooooo easy

removing it is a whole nother story

Post by **aferguson** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:29 pm

Corey: i doubt one person would cancel their pre-order or not buy this if it didn't have weathering. There might be some disappointment voiced but that's about it.

And this is not weathering by any stretch of any imagination. It is big dark grey spots randomly painted over the entire model.

Can you imagine if we hadn't seen the factory production pictures? We would all be at a feverish pitch eagerly waiting to see the Tomcat only to be shocked and awed by its apperance.

glcanon · Post by **glcanon** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:32 pm

Century Wings released 5 variations of the early and mid-80's VF-84 Tomcats... in factory-fresh paint, and they all sold out, every last one!

And not just VF-84, also VF-41 Black Aces. Both of these are still in HUGE demand.

<a href="http://s449.photobucket.com/albums/qq21 ... y_Aces.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/qq21 ... y_Aces.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

I sold the CW VF-84 and the above VF-41 on Ebay recently for $165 and $178 respectively. Considering I paid Joepilot.com $57.99 for each, a pretty good investment/profit.

Ironically, on 1/72 Forums everyone is complaining that all Century Wings does these days is VF-84 and VF-103 schemes... but at least they don't hv polka dots. Oh, and they sell out. Which means there's a 2ndary Mkt. Will there ever be a secondary mkt for these JSI birds? Don't know, but before I invest, I'm waiting to see buyers opins when they arrive. BTW, Century has 4 more factory-fresh Jolly Rogers birds coming out over next couple mos. Obviously CW found the formula that works.. Maybe too well b/c I'd like to see some other schemes, like VF-1:

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm20 ... 14worn.jpg

Go Longhorns - Beat 'Bama!

Birddog · Post by **Birddog** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:35 pm

While I am still in awe that the weathering is truly turning out to be what I had hoped it would not, I still like the model itself. All the other features appear to be there.

My one hope is that JSI doesn't suffer too much from this. You have to give them credit for taking on such a beast of a subject as their first all new model, faults and all. Hope they survive because I'm really looking forward to an F-15E and hopefully one day they might be the ones to bring us an A-10. At least they could do camoflauge on those two and skip the weathering fiasco.

King O' Fools · Post by **King O' Fools** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:35 pm

What I don't get is the "we owe them" mantra. We owe them nothing. These companies are in the business of making a profit. Each and every one of them.

To me the question is, if, as some people claim, this thing is underpriced (either because you feel the 'Spotcat', such as it is now, is worth more than you are being charged or because you think the price point should be higher in order for JSI to match the paint master in the prodcution run), then what would be the right price for a production model that actually resembles the paint master? $300? $500? The same price Skyqorks charges for a custom-made model built from scratch?

And, if everything is so fine with the 'Spotcat', would you want all your 1:18 models to have this sort of "weathering" in the future? If not, why not?

Certainly beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but to say with a straight face that JSI's F-14 is "right" is, well, a lie.

pcoughran · Post by **pcoughran** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:40 pm

The 1/32 Famemaster 4d tomcat had no weathering either, and everyone on the 1/32 side was loving it. I have one myself and it is fine without weathering.

Coreyeagle48 · Post by **Coreyeagle48** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:02 pm

Greetings

I'm not saying we owe them anything and haven't said that. That's a total misrepresentation of the statement. What people are getting at is the fact that there are many other companies who make 1/18 stuff that wouldn't even make an attempt to try this for whatever reason (too big, too costly, too complicated) etc. The point being made is that JSI at least made an attempt to do something when we've seen ziltch from BBI and Admiral lately. They have an advantage as they are putting product out to buy and no matter what it looks like there is someone out there who will buy it. It's very hard to argue this because as I said, it's not like BBI and Admiral are here challenging them. With the exception of PTE, there is virtually no 1/18 stuff coming out except for custom pieces.

As far as price goes, the economy and inflation have increased the price of everything. The days of the $40 planes at Walmart are long over. I suspect we will be seeing 1/18 aircraft that are mass produced going from anywhere from $75 to over $200 depending on size and the complex nature of the subject. I long suspected one of the big problems in the 21st and Walmart deal was that Walmart's general customer base wouldn't have bought them at $60, so Walmart undercut and charged $40. Between quality control and the fact Walmart is known as a discount store, even $40 wasn't low enough. Look how many of us got those planes on clearence back in the day and Walmart couldn't move them if they tried. I got an F-104 for $10 two years ago, and it was one of the nicer models I thought at the time. Personally I think around $200 is right for a model of this size. Especially when some 1/18 diecast cars go for $70 or so. It's all relative perspective.

I don't buy the prototype photos don't look like the real one arguement either. There were many times where 21st used professionally painted airplanes to showcase their future schemes, and then the actual mass produced ones were much simpler in nature. If anyone remembers, their F-4 was actually a 1/48 Tamyia kit painted up to look like the F-4 they were supposedly going to do

Corey