POST JSI F-14 SPOT REPAIR IDEAS HERE

Shin Densetsu · Post by **Shin Densetsu** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:27 am

tko211 wrote:UPDATE:

Got my F-14 Special Edition Spotcat tonight. It's official! The spots are indeed as bad as they look in photos. There really was a part of me that hoped this was not true but there is no denying it. The plane look flat out BAD! Even when you stand back a few feet. They almost seem to get worse.

OK- that negativity aside, the model itself is Beautiful! I am convinced that later schemes will be great as long as they vow never to give these people airbrushes ever again.
Seriously, the spots do detract from this being beautiful. The way that a Ferrari is beautiful without someone spotting it up with an airbrush. Or dating a hot girl with a bad case of liver spots. What does it all mean? What am I saying? Don't pass up this Tomcat. It's a really nice piece and it's worthy of the 200+ price tag minus of course: the spots. So buy one and live with it, or fix it yourself, or have me do it for you, whatever! But seriously- this F-14 is neat. Blows the F-16 and F-18 away.
The problems with this bird are all just skin deep and the skin can be fixed!

That said: I still don't have a price point nailed down yet but- what I saw tonight is what I was hoping to see. It's confirms for me that what I have in mind will work. It's also not going to be as much work as I feared that it might be. So I think I can keep my costs down and the time down a little as well. So it's going the right direction tonight, hopefully those interested in my service will agree.

The lights are cool, a bit of a novelty... not really needed to make this a winner so long as the paint is nice. Looking forward to painting this bad boy up this weekend! hoping to have a price structure for Jolly Roger Repair and Black Aces conversion by the weekend.

I would like to start receiving planes before Christmas so that I can paint them over my break and get them all done by New years. So for those of you just waiting on price, get ready to ship your spotty bird to me! I want members here to be happy with the big cat as soon as possible.

Hey TKO since you've handled 21st's releases extensively before, I've looked forward to your brutally honest opinion on the Tomcat.

So I have questions:

1-Does it have more detail than the 1/18 MIG-15/F-86
2-What's the durability more comparable to, that of the BBI F/A-18 or 21st MIG-15? I bring those 2 up because those are arguably the sturdiest 1/18 planes of their respective companies.
3-Is the catapult launch bar loose?
4-Can the canopy remain open without support?
5-Is the TCS lens on yours molded in red?
6-In general does it feel more durable than 21st's last jet/warbird releases?
7-Is it significantly heavier than BBI's F/A-18?
8-Are the landing gear like that of the F-104's? Is there anything we should watch out for?

Can't wait to see your Black Aces custom man!

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:15 am

1-Does it have more detail than the 1/18 MIG-15/F-86.

A. I would say it has a little more detail then the awesome MiG-15 and F-86. No control surfaces that move but it makes up for it in other ways. Lot's better than the F-16 and F-18!

2-What's the durability more comparable to, that of the BBI F/A-18 or 21st MIG-15?

A. Well, thats a trick question... I was also VERY worried about it as well as it seemed to look like it would be delicate to handle. It's really quite sturdy. The most delicate parts appear to the landing gear doors. Not the gear themselves. The doors work cool but I can foresee problems if you have gorilla hands (take no care and force things) Overall the plane feels more sturdy than I expected!

3-Is the catapult launch bar loose?

A. Oh yes! and so is the Radar! So are my ladder steps! Not deal breakers though considering all the good points.

4-Can the canopy remain open without support?

A. No. Tried all night. It slams shut no matter what you do. Gonna have to wedge something down near the rear frame to display open. While on the subject the top airbrake is the same story.

5-Is the TCS lens on yours molded in red?

A. Yes, a clear red plastic with Red LED.

6-In general does it feel more durable than 21st's last jet/warbird releases?

A. Not really more durable that the 21C's About the same as a Sabre, Me-262. that sort.

7-Is it significantly heavier than BBI's F/A-18?

A. Oh yes! By a bit I would say.

8-Are the landing gear like that of the F-104's? Is there anything we should watch out for?

A. The Gear are like nothing we have ever seen or worked with. I was looking at how they fold up and down and thinking to my self no way! I was impressed but I was also really nervous thinking to myself - there is NO WAY this is going to hold this plane up.

Know what? THEY TOTALLY DO! They look great and they feel more sturdy than you initially think. They fold out in a very cool toughtout way, and they require 3 points of what I might call "pin-placement". (you have to put a post into a hole.) The result is a detailed gear that is quite realistic for a toy and yet very strong all considering. It's FAR and away - light years superior to the BBI jet gear. which now look more "fisher price" to me than ever! Watch the doors. ESPECIALLY the smaller ones.

There is no mistaking the fact that this plane is impressive. Even with the stupid spots you can't help but smile. So there is the double edge sword I guess. In a way it pisses you off more when you see the cool model and then the stupid spots. It really is a shame. It's lots more distracting that the sliver finger print Corsair of 21C. It's pisses you off more than a Blue Angles F-18 not being painted in a gloss blue, just molded in cheap blue plastic!

Im going to shoot my finished one next to my other spotcat and you will see the real difference. The spots look bad in the box, once assembled and than stand back.... looks even worse!

COOL pane though! Glad they made it. I am already thinking about buying another.

Black_Dragon_One · Post by **Black_Dragon_One** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:50 am

is high vis mostly gray and some white

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:11 am

I just want to follow up on some of TKO's comments. BE CAREFUL with the gear. My sample had no instructions on how to raise or lower them. In fact the instructions I'd rate fair at best. I was very impressed with the strength of the nose gear. But it takes some trial and error to get the hang of the mains. Its good to remember they compress and swivel this helps getting them into the wells.

Some notes on the model I received. The Forward Wing Roots where the glove vanes (?) are were not seated very well on my model and the fit was very loose especially around the air intakes. The gloves kept falling out. I carefully (stress carefully) applied some zap in the area to secure them use very little. It doesn't take much and it makes a world of difference. The fit for the forward phoenix missles holders and the lower vertical stabilizers was very loose and they have a tendency to fall out of place on my model. A slight bit of tape on the tabs of the stabilizer increased the friction just enough to keep them in place. For the missiles, I put small dabs of Elmer's glue on the tabs. This gives just enough bit of strength to hold them there but doesn't make them hard to remove.

Overall a great model, but the spots are just awful. My winter project will be correcting it. I hope someone makes some decals soon.

NWarty · Post by **NWarty** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:26 am

Jericoeagle1 wrote:Overall a great model, but the spots are just awful. My winter project will be correcting it. I hope someone makes some decals soon.

I've been thinking about this the last several days. I would love to see a manufacturer spit out some really nice aftermarket decals for the Cat. Would make our lives much easier in the painting department.

trex0770 · Post by **trex0770** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:24 am

Just picked up my AWH special from John (Aviator Nut) in S. Cal. He and his brother Justin are great guys to deal with for any of you looking for a vendor to buy from!
Anyway, I tried using acetone on the underside (just a small hidden area) and it took out the spot but the gunk build up was not good...the base paint came off too. The result looked better when I used a Q-tip (but not good enough to do the whole plane) and just gently rubbed the spot paint as opposed to using a cotton ball and scrubbing the spot (that's when the gunk built up).
After my little experiment, I have to agree with TKO that painting the entire thing over as opposed to using some kind of paint remover is the best option. With that, TKO would you please put me on your list too (pending the cost for repaint?).

Thnx!

Post by **aferguson** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:31 am

what about using enough acetone just to soften the paint of the spot so it could be blended in better to look more like weathering? I'm not concerned about having a heavily weathered, dirty looking Tomcat, but those spots just look like dots painted all over it, not weathering.

So in otherwords, not trying to remove them but just difuse them sufficiently to look like weathering?

trex0770 · Post by **trex0770** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:58 am

aferguson wrote:what about using enough acetone just to soften the paint of the spot so it could be blended in better to look more like weathering? I'm not concerned about having a heavily weathered, dirty looking Tomcat, but those spots just look like dots painted all over it, not weathering.

So in otherwords, not trying to remove them but just difuse them sufficiently to look like weathering?

Aferg,
it looked good doing that at first, but you'd have to be real careful not to rub too hard and you'll need alot of cotton balls. The two spots I tried getting rid of used up about 5 cotton balls to avoid paint saturation on the cotton ball resulting in gunk build up on the model itself (now multiply that by the bazillion spots you'd have to work out!). Anyway, from what I experienced there's a fine line from getting most of the spot out and damaging the underlying finish.

Also, I suppose you could use the Q-tip method to "feather" the spot out. That looked decent but only because I did that on a spot that was over a panel line. It gave the panel line a kind of weathering effect. Problem is that most of the spots are in the center of panels or on a smooth surface and I don't think it'd work out too well. The "feathering" with the q-tip on the panel line spot worked well b/c the lighter edges of the spot came out easily while the center, darker area of the spot requires much more pressure to erase (thereby risking removal of the finish paint.

In any case, removing the spots with any paint remover WILL BE very labor intensive and the end result might not be desirable...like the spots are desirable!

Hope this makes sense.

CW4USARMY · Post by **CW4USARMY** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:57 pm

TKO211, I would like you to fix the spots on my bird. Exisiting paint scheme/version is fine. Do we need to PM you to get on the list? My lighted version shipped today so I should receive early next week.

thanks!,

Andy

tkjaer21 · Post by **tkjaer21** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:17 pm

NWarty wrote:
Jericoeagle1 wrote:Overall a great model, but the spots are just awful. My winter project will be correcting it. I hope someone makes some decals soon.
I've been thinking about this the last several days. I would love to see a manufacturer spit out some really nice aftermarket decals for the Cat. Would make our lives much easier in the painting department.

Perhaps, Roy Sutherland, could do this for us. I bet that he had some hand in this plane from the beginning anyway before he was released from 21C.

tkjaer21 · Post by **tkjaer21** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:18 pm

A part of me really wants to do the XP-14F Skystriker. It would look pretty cool in this scale, IMO. Don't laugh.

Preferably the cartoon and box art accurate black stabilizers version:

tkjaer21 · Post by **tkjaer21** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:20 pm

It would also be cool if a place could tampo print on the decals.

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:51 pm

Ok, spent all morning taking photos of every single marking on the plane, and redrawing the markings in illustrator to create the stencil masks. There are no less than 92 vinyl masks per plane that have to be applied to prevent spray onto the stencils, stars, numbers and all the other markings.
Then you have to mask the canopy, the rear stab bulges, the engines.

The nose cone needs 2 colors to fix the spots on the tip too! I have already found the perfect paint match and ran a test on a hard point rocket rail. Looks GREAT you will never know spots were there! It's going to work well.

I am getting a lot closer to figuring out the hard cost on primer, paint, tape, and vinyl and all I need to figure in now is time to mask and paint. It's looking like this will go pretty smooth with great results.

More to come in the next day or so.

diegomenendez · Post by **diegomenendez** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:07 pm

Wilco

diegomenendez · Post by **diegomenendez** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:11 pm

wilco

vulgarvulture · Post by **vulgarvulture** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:14 pm

also TKO, not trying to hijack your thread, but I think it's important

Well, consider the thread highjacked then. Please, there's a separate thread for other issues. Let's keep this one strictly to the paint issue. Thanks.

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:22 pm

tko211 wrote:Ok, spent all morning taking photos of every single marking on the plane, and redrawing the markings in illustrator to create the stencil masks. There are no less than 92 vinyl masks per plane that have to be applied to prevent spray onto the stencils, stars, numbers and all the other markings.
Then you have to mask the canopy, the rear stab bulges, the engines.

The nose cone needs 2 colors to fix the spots on the tip too! I have already found the perfect paint match and ran a test on a hard point rocket rail. Looks GREAT you will never know spots were there! It's going to work well.

I am getting a lot closer to figuring out the hard cost on primer, paint, tape, and vinyl and all I need to figure in now is time to mask and paint. It's looking like this will go pretty smooth with great results.

More to come in the next day or so.

For those of us who have an airbrush and skills would you consider making available copies of your vinyl masks for $$$.

exether_mega · Post by **exether_mega** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:38 pm

Jericoeagle1 wrote:
tko211 wrote:Ok, spent all morning taking photos of every single marking on the plane, and redrawing the markings in illustrator to create the stencil masks. There are no less than 92 vinyl masks per plane that have to be applied to prevent spray onto the stencils, stars, numbers and all the other markings.
Then you have to mask the canopy, the rear stab bulges, the engines.

The nose cone needs 2 colors to fix the spots on the tip too! I have already found the perfect paint match and ran a test on a hard point rocket rail. Looks GREAT you will never know spots were there! It's going to work well.

I am getting a lot closer to figuring out the hard cost on primer, paint, tape, and vinyl and all I need to figure in now is time to mask and paint. It's looking like this will go pretty smooth with great results.

More to come in the next day or so.
For those of us who have an airbrush and skills would you consider making available copies of your vinyl masks for $$$.

Good point. Could be very helpful.

phil

Shin Densetsu · Post by **Shin Densetsu** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:13 pm

Hey TKO, definitely looking forward to see how your "fixed" Tomcat looks like! Also thanks for the heads up on how the plane turned out compared to the 21st/BBI planes.

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:16 pm

I just finished painting the cockpit section. It looks really good now. The masking off of the current markings worked very well and I am now happy with the big cat! (well the cockpit area anyway). Every thing went as planned and was not too bad. the color match to the base coat is very very close so I was happy to see that next to the markings that had to be "cut in" around the base color.

It looks clean, like it just was delivered to the carrier! Held it up next to the body and wow! what a major improvement. I am masking off the rest of the plane as we speak. The members here will get the first look at the finished JR repaint tomorrow!

-TKO

NWarty · Post by **NWarty** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:28 pm

Zach,
Thank you much for posting this stuff. Gives me hope that I'll be able to turn out a decent finish on mine someday.

snake · Post by **snake** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:33 pm

Very detailed report Z.

Glad to hear it is progressing well,and that there don't appear to be any "huge" obstacles.

There are quite a few of us that are keeping our fingers crossed on this.

diegomenendez · Post by **diegomenendez** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:27 pm

Glad to hear you're making progress!

Diego

YT · Post by YT » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:57 pm

Jericoeagle1 wrote:
For those of us who have an airbrush and skills would you consider making available copies of your vinyl masks for $$$.

Seconded, that would be great!

Black_Dragon_One · Post by **Black_Dragon_One** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:46 am

those who already own a cat be very careful when opening the canopy the three reflect mirror are easily snap..

thank god i bought two.. the other will be here in jan...