POST ALL JSE F-14 QUESTIONS AND DISCUSSION HERE

NWarty · Post by **NWarty** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:01 pm

The hype, the pricetag, the expectations and the final what-ya-see-is-what-ya-get model

I think Merit may be in "Oh sh*t" mode. I've written two polite and cordial emails and haven't heard a thing back from them. I think retailers like BCA are less than impressed. To quote Bad Cat Rob and I'm only doing it because the are a huge player in the retail market:

"In all cases, Pre-production shots and actual production samples will never be identical. The goal of the factory is to make them as close as possible, however. The variation here is wider than we've grown accustomed to seeing."

Is wider than we've seen before? How exactly did this happen?

My question still stands. Is this the same JSI factory that produced the Corsair/Lightning and Stuka models?

Or is this a factory that has workers who've never built a 1/18 plane before?

thatf14guy · Post by **thatf14guy** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:05 pm

wow, funny you should say that, he is one of my heroes, and man he is on fire this season. i've been studying both the proto and production pics and well those spots look more visible on the prototype pic i'm looking at, but it could be the lighting. but other than the missiles i think they look pretty much the same. perhaps it is the lighting. it is hard to tell 100%, but judge for yourself.

vulgarvulture · Post by **vulgarvulture** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:43 pm

toyktdlgh wrote:

What happens if they fix the issue with run 2 and we are all stuck with sub standard planes? Hmm…

If I recall, from BadCat I believe, there will not be a second run of this livery. But to your point, that would be really bad, not only for those with spotcat but from a JSI PR standpoint.

As has been mentioned in this thread more than once, it's really odd that the weathering on the other JSI planes is OK, but on their first new mold showpiece it's botched. How the heck could that happen? Who was the guy who had the prototype in one hand and the first production model in the other and said "Good match! Fire up the production line". I'm sure there was pressure to get this bird out to market before the holidays, come hell or high water, but who really knows. It's just so bizzare.

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:45 pm

aferguson wrote:
Wake up people. This thing looks bad. It is inexcusible that it looks the way it does. And unbelievable that it turned out this way given its $200 price tag; which if we all recall JSI refused to let dealers lower their prices on, since they didn't want to undervalue their product. Well, they've done that all by themselves with the paintjob.

I have a great deal of respect for you Aferg believe me, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder and to me, it doesn't look bad at all for the price. In the long run, that's where it ends, with the individual and everyone must decide for themselves what they consider acceptable. Personally, I just feel it's unfair to make judgments on something that no one actually has in their hands yet. No matter what is said here, the market is going to decide if the price is fair or not. My feeling is the vast majority of people who are going to buy this aren't discerning collectors, they will probably be vets, military buffs or want to be pilots who think its cool and I'll bet you see Ebay prices for it go for between 3 to 500 hundred easily after the initial run is finished.

Personally, I'm glad its coming out good or bad, overpriced or not. There is a void here that needs to be filled. And I'm glad JSI is trying to do it. In a perfect world the thing would have pilots, working lights, ejection seats and the works but it doesn't but in the meantime until someone can find someone to do all that and make it for 50 dollars or less. I'll take it and that's my decision. If its not yours that's fine too. I'm not going to criticize any one for their own choice.

thatf14guy · Post by **thatf14guy** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:49 pm

well said. can you guys see my pics? i hope they help some.

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:50 pm

thatf14guy wrote:

I forgot just how big this monster is going to be.

thatf14guy · Post by **thatf14guy** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:53 pm

yeah it is just massive as long as a big screen tv, and with wings spread as big as one too.

Ferrari250GTO · Post by **Ferrari250GTO** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:56 pm

thatf14guy wrote:i beg your pardon, but i don't want jsi to go under, but if they don't get enough support--from us--the consumers, they probalbly will, and yes that would totally suck donkey balls. cause i want the f-15 and su-27. sorry if i came off the wronge way. but i plan on supporting the crap out of them. i just trying to tell certian people not to kill the messengers (the dealers), if they are not happy they should let jsi know, if jsi truly cares about their customers they will produce better aircraft in the future. me, i am happy with what i see, i can't wait to own that sucker, it will look good in my living room.

I agree with this.

There are two major conflicts going on here.
1. If we don't let JSI know somehow that this is not cool with us, their following models will be the same.
2. If we do let JSI know somehow that this is not cool with us, possibly by sending back many models, they may not be able to recover from it, and therefore there will be absolutely no 1:18 military company.

Now in my case, I did not, and will not buy the F14, just because I am not an F14 fan. However, I absolutely want to buy the F15 if it is indeed in the Israeli colors.

Whatever happens, let's just hope JSI survives.

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:57 pm

Badcat aparently has a picture of an actual production sample of the F-14. It looks good, just like the other finished example photos we've been seeing, including no spots

NWarty · Post by **NWarty** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:58 pm

[edit] what Ferrari just said.

Ferrari250GTO · Post by **Ferrari250GTO** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:01 pm

tmanthegreat wrote:Badcat aparently has a picture of an actual production sample of the F-14. It looks good, just like the other finished example photos we've been seeing, including no spots

If you are referring to the 2 pics on their website, that is what we have been yelling at each other for, for about 5 pages.

Not trying to be mean, I am just saying.

Post by **aferguson** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:06 pm

the only actual production photo i've seen on badcat's site was posted in this thread and the spots are clearly visable still. What photo are you referring to, Tman?

King O' Fools · Post by **King O' Fools** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:08 pm

Of course, the paradox here is that if you hold off buying one until S-2 comes out, that day may never come.

And then there's the special edition and the pilots. What will happen to those if comparatively few people buy this thing?

Post by **p51** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:32 pm

I can see the spots too, if you're talking about the two new shots with the dark background... it looks nice overall, but the I think the F-18 is a little more detailed in the weathering than the F-14... I'm not a fan of the patchy weathering.

I'd agree for a price tag that big, especially when BBi was able to pump out F-18s for a fraction of that price with, IMO, for the most part a more accurate and nicer weathering job (at least the F-18 doesn't look as plasticy to me as the F-14 does). that we should expect a much higher quality paint job. This doesn't look at all like the sample prototype shots as far as weathering goes. I understand (especially having worked with 21st on many occasions) how a prototype will always look better as it was hand done by the company, and not mass produced in a factory... but you still try and get as close as you can, and in this case it's like they decided to skip the nice panel weathering (which was the seller of the F-14 for me) and do weathering I'd expect on a GI Joe (no offense Hasbro) airplane.

Since they are billing these as 'collectors items' and not just toys, I think we should expect more collector grade paint and weathering. If they were to offer this for $150, I'd get it... but for now I'm going to hold off, maybe wait and see if I can nab one for cheaper.

EDIT - I think for a lot of us who like the F-14 but are not major major fans, the weathering on this was a big sell point. It was for me, and the main reason I wanted it because it was supposed to be amazingly weathered. As I recall, one of the big things that JSI told everyone when they took over the 21st molds was that they'd have MORE details and paint jobs on them.

And I agree 100% with aferg, this is a MASS produced item, like a BBi F-18 or 21st Corsair, not a Franklin Mint B-25 that's a lot harder to find, made of metal, packed in hard foam preciously, etc. Yeah, those are collectors grade items, and are treated as such. I believe they dont have runs in the paint jobs (though not as much weathering)... so their quality control is much higher because they are limited runs. Mass produced items will have a lot of errors, glitches, etc... and that's why they are cheaper. So I think using the argument that it's underpriced is not fair, especially when you can't compare them to franklin mint or other high end aircraft makers.

Perhaps we've been expecting too much from JSI, but they've been promoting themselves via photos and their website that they are better, so we have come to expect them to be better... but when I see something that costs nearly 3x more than my F-18 and has less weathering and more blotchy weathering than it... that says something.

Coreyeagle48 · Post by **Coreyeagle48** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:44 pm

Greetings:

I've studied the photos as well and doing photography as a hobby now for several years with cameras of varying quality, I can tell you that depending on the photograph, the look of the actual model will differ a lot. There's just many variables to consider here, camera type, lighting, flash, resolution. All of those things will greatly change how something looks when it is photographed. From studying the photos of the model, it does appear the took the picture using a flash, that will make the model brighter than it would appear in real life. Also when you blow up the photographs, because they were posted in low resolution, they distort. It's hard to tell what the airplane looks like because of this fact. High resoultion photos would have been nice. I would think the actual production plane is going to be darker than what the pictures show.

I don't see pronounced spots as some people are claiming. I see areas where they have attempted to do some weathering and it may appear slightly spotty. But the way people are describing this, it's like someone took a black marker and drew a spot on the thing. That's not the case here. The weathering may not be realistic to some or people may not like it, but it's something JSI attempted.

It is interesting to note people are mentioning the price tag. The going price for these is between $200 and $250 depending where you go. High quality wooden models go for about 100-150 a piece and you don't get working landing gear, an opening canopy, removable ordiances and something durable. I bought several wooden models over the course of the early years of my collecting. The finish was beautiful but because wood expands and contracts, they all cracked where they were assembled. So for every model, high quality or not, they have their faults. On a trip to NASM recently, I noticed several of their "museum models" are cracking, the tires have flattened, etc. Remember, these aren't one-offs, they are mass produced.

I did notice the overspray and can't help but wonder if this pre production plane was quickly done up and assembled and sent to Merit just to show pictures of it. Only time will tell. I think the model will satisfy me just fine and if not, it won't be the end of the world.

After losing my job earlier in the year and having to go through the scary process of being unemployed and then moving to a new job, I've realized it's just better to keep things in perspective here. I'm just thankful I was able to find a job so I can keep collecting and adding pieces like this to my collection.

Corey

Coreyeagle48 · Post by **Coreyeagle48** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:48 pm

Greetings

Franklin Mint has had their share of paint debacles too. Back in the day when they sold Richard Petty cars as part of a collection, there was a whole group that had bad paint runs. My Dad got them for me and he ended up sending them back four times to get a good one.

It happens to all companies unfortunately.

Corey

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:02 pm

These are the pictures:

While I can see the "spots" being refered too, I do not think they detract from the appearance of the plane overall. They are certainly less-pronounced than in the factory pictures. My S1 BBI F-18 has very similar spotty weathering (especially on the underside) and it is more pronounced. I guess I could complain and say that I would have liked a little more contrast between the upper and lower surfaces, but I greatly like the looks of the F-14 overall

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:05 pm

Thanks tman for posting the pictures. I can't wait to get that big Tomcat!

thatf14guy · Post by **thatf14guy** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:11 pm

me too, i can't wait to display that massive thing. i think that is just a bad shot, as you can tell in some of the pics i posted on the last page, its all in the lighting, i actually think the plane is alot darker than what is portrayed in those two new pics from merit and bad cat.

King O' Fools · Post by **King O' Fools** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:17 pm

thatf14guy wrote:me too, i can't wait to display that massive thing. i think that is just a bad shot, as you can tell in some of the pics i posted on the last page, its all in the lighting, i actually think the plane is alot darker than what is portrayed in those two new pics from merit and bad cat.

Wouldn't that mean the spots (which are fairly noticeable with the intense lighting in the pics) would stand out even more?

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:22 pm

Is the model an F-14D model?

NWarty · Post by **NWarty** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:23 pm

Nope, it's an "A"

thatf14guy · Post by **thatf14guy** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:32 pm

maybe, i'm not a professional photographer, but in this pic the plane does look gray. but the reason why i posted these pics is to show the spots are on the prototype as well.

NWarty · Post by **NWarty** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:35 pm

Look at the photo supersonic posted in the thread here:

viewtopic.php?t=17940&postdays=0&postor ... &start=320

Doesn't look splotchy to me. What it does look like is, the model that we were hoping to get.

[EDIT] JSI and Merit are mum at the moment and I don't think retailers will give it a completely fair review (think RMA's and cancelled pre-orders). It's gonna come down to us, the customer, to rate the model and right now, IMO the JSI Tomcat is already fighting an uphill battle to impress me in the paint & finish department.

thatf14guy · Post by **thatf14guy** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:46 pm

perhaps someone who is still getting one (hint me) should take some pics of it in proper lighting, no flash or background reflections of light, and post them. but that could be a few weeks.