Important must read, “ save German WWII amour

[pickelhaube]

Tosborne 3,

You do put things in perspective. The most people putting up a stink are people who were not even born during the war. Go ask a vet who put there life on the line during WW2 " would you want a nice custom German tank or plane to put on you shelf to show people what you faught against during the war? " What would the answer will be? I would say 10 out of 10 would say HELL YEAH. Then go ask him what he braught back from the war. He will show you his war militaria and probably that Nazi flag that he has folded up on the same shelf and tell you how he got it.

Don't get me wrong I actualy support the Holocost Museum. The Holocost was one of the blackest issues of humanity. People killing people by the MILLIONS because of there religion and ethinical background W T F ? What does this have to do with models ? I don't know.

People like to be heard for all of the wrong reasons. Polotics and military toys are not one of the same.

[tosborne3]

Unfortunatly I guess, thats the world we live in now. We must never foget the people involved in WW2. It's a real shame that most of the Vets from that war are no longer around to tell the tell. I guess people like all of us on this forum must try to keep this history alive. God bless all our armed forces, past and present.

[MandaloreSC]

Don't get me wrong I actualy support the Holocost Museum. The Holocost was one of the blackest issues of humanity. People killing people by the MILLIONS because of there religion and ethinical background W T F ? What does this have to do with models ? I don't know.

I agree with you. Killing Millions of Jews, handicapped persons and political enemys in their own country was the worst thing they could do. Without this it would have been a "normal war" and the discussions would be less hysterical today. But it's like I said: Most countries had their dark age. The Romans, france, russia, england - all of them had a phase when they wanted to conquer the world. Every country has war crimes and discriminations in its history. Even USA killed thousends of american natives and killed thousends of civillians by bombing europe and bombing Hirochima and Nagasaki. Every country showed from its worst side during the war. Germany was the worst, but I think russia wasn't much better.

For me it's the uniforms, tanks, and planes that I like. I love those designs, camo patterns and styles. When I look at a german tiger tank, I don't think of it as a Nazi killing machine, I think of it as a part of the regular german military vehicle from that time period. Tanks, uniforms and guns can't be evil. It's humans under wrong leadership that can be evil. And people should open their eyes for signs of a beginning dictatorship (like governments that lie to their people, and political facts that are kept in secret by the government) instead of complaining about toys.

[longrifle]

I will just say this......

What would the difference be, if you were buying something 65 years ago that was MADE IN GERMANY---you would be financially supporting the Nazies---RIGHT????

As compared to today---when you buy something ---"MADE IN CHINA"
you are supporting Communist,---right????

If the soccer moms want to eliminate all the "NAZI" stuff....then they also need to eliminate all the "COMMIE" stuff......

And they also need to get some history lessons and compare the 2 regimes---

the Communist make the Nazies look like SAINTS.......

of course the NAZIS dont give us the low low prices like the communist do...so its obvious to me what they are thinking with, and it isnt their brains..................................

[nathanita]

In addition, all germans were not Nazis. Most were doing what our boys were doing, fighting for their country and following the orders of their political superiors. As a 4th generation, German-American, I had family on both sides and it is very interesting to read a diary from a relative, who was in the German Navy. You can certainly see the light bulb go on, as he was, at first, ashamed of all his compatriots who shed their uniforms to escape the Russians to being ashamed of his own people when he learned of of their atrocities.

I am certainly no stranger to political correctness as I have to take down a captured Nazi flag in my library, everytime I have a cub scout meeting. Some of the parents would think I'm training the next generation of Hitler youth...

[MandaloreSC]

@nathanita: Very interesting story to read. Thanks for posting this!

[GooglyDoogly]

I think that there is a perception that people like WWII German stuff because they like to glorify the Nazi regime.

We all know that's pretty much a big pile of BS. But let me play the Devil's Advocate. Let's put ourselves in their place. Let's say that we only have a general knowledge of history, with no interest on the equipment, men, and battles of WWII.

Then you see a website that sells a set of SS figures in parade uniform....Wouldn't you think, "Why are they making these toys? What exactly is someone gonna do with them? Let their children play-recreate the 1936 Nuremberg Nazi parade?"

Then you investigate further. Now you see that companies actually sells 1/6th Nazi figures. Well-made, wonderful-looking Nazi figures, depicting Adolf Hitler in his PRIME, not the withered hulk that he was during the end of the war.

Then you research further, and came upon many many modelling websites. Then you read about the descriptions of German armor, planes, German fighter and tanks aces, etc.

You see that there seem to be a pattern.....most if not all the description tells how superior these machines are, and also the men who operate them. Time and again, these modellers keeps stating how many good guys (the Allies) were killed just to defeat these mighty German machines.

You read on further and see that in the subject of WWII, the most popular figures, the ones hailed as heroes most of the time, the ones that these modellers seem to concentrate on, are not Allied soldiers, but GERMAN ones.

Like that Michael Wittmann....you couldn't BELIEVE the number of models that was made of his tank, or how many times you've read about how great he was charging with his mighty Tiger tank straight into a bewildered British brigade. You noticed that the description of the battle of Villers Bocage seems a bit too....giddy, when describing how Wittmann destroy tank after tank of the British.

Then you researched further, and came upon the topic of Luftwaffe 1946....people who model German aircrafts if the war continued on.

Once again, you see a pattern. You ask yourself, "Why would they even want to think about the war continuing, and why do these people seem to be way too excited about German planes that can possibly inflict massive casulaties in Allied bomber formations? Do they like thinking about American bombers being decimated by these German planes? Do they fantasize about being the German pilot who saves the Reich by annihilating the bombers who is trying to destroy it?"

Don't you see how someone could think we glorify the Nazis with these toys and models?

I'm not saying they are right. Hell, I built/collect plenty of German armor, but I could understand a little how some of these "politically correct" people could see that these toys/models are tools of glorification of the Reich. Hell, I know plenty of websites where a guy shows off his incredible models, and with lotsa Nazi rhetoric accompanying the pics.

Instead of just raving about these PC people, and pitting them against us, why don't we tell them that no, we are NOT Nazis, but we have an avid interest in history. And in many ways, these toys show the sacrifice of the men who fought for freedom and ended tyranny back in 1945.

Like the one time when this woman in the library who came up to me and asked why do I have so many books about German WWII stuff. Instead of telling her to go away, I told her a little about Tiger tanks and how fearsome they are.

But I also told her the courage of the Allied tankers who faced these monsters. So in the end, she came away with the knowledge not so much of the German tank's superiority, but with the knowledge that even though Allied tankers knew that they were outclassed, they still charged and battled these German tanks. That's true courage.

[tosborne3]

One of my college courses required the class to do an essay on a specific period in history. A young student chose to do a story on WW2 and the German people. I was amazed at how little knowledge the student had about the Germans and how inaccurate he was with his information. He had little knowledge of WW2 and why it was fought. Me being such a big WW2 buff spoke up in class and tried to help him the best I could to get through his presentation. Presenting facts that not all Germans were Nazi's and why the war was actually fought, I was really surprised that people in my class hadn't heard any of the info I was talking about.. My next english class I gave a presentation on propaganda and was again amazed at how little knowledge the class had on the subject. WW2 didn't happen that long ago and I don't understand why so many people are trying to forget about it. That war changed the face of the world as we know it today and it's very important that people understand why.

[aferguson]

people by and large seem to be interested in or even fascinated by evil, scarey things.

What's most people's favourite dinosaur? Tyrannosaurus or one of the other big meat eaters.

What Star Wars toys are generally the most popular? Stormtroopers, Darth Vaders, Tie Fighters, AT-AT's etc.

Are horror/gore movies popular? Obviously so.


So it's this tendancy to be fascinated by what is perceived to be evil that draws alot of people towards German WWII equipment (most people consider the Nazis to be one of the most evil groups to ever exist...and yes i know all germans weren't nazis etc but the fact is that WWII germans are often viewed as the ultimate in bad guys).

That plus the fact many of the German designs were technically advanced, ingenuitive or just plain look good. Add to that the fact that for a large chunk of the war the Germans were the underdogs fighting overwhelming odds (and people tend to cheer for the underdog) and you get the high interest in German WWII stuff.

I don't doubt that some people who collect this stuff actually are closet nazis and do think Hitler was aces, but they are in the extreme minority. Most are like us who are very interested in the history of WWII (let's face it, it's one of the best stories of all time), are interested by the technology and drawn to the violence of the machines, in the way that people are drawn to horror/gore movies (which i personally can't stand).

For the most part i think the anti-war groups have good intentions but they are so limited in what they can do that they feel that by getting rid of war toys, somehow, this will make war itself go away. Clearly not the case, but they feel impotent otherwise and so need to do something, anything, because of their revulsion of war.

If war toys had been banned right after WWII ,would the Korean war have happened? Vietnam? Kosovo? Would Saddam Hussien still have come to power? Would terrorism still exist? Of course. Banning war toys will have no impact on that.

So, what i think these groups need to do is re-focus their energies and maybe put their effort and finances towards clearing old land mines, helping war orphans etc and not trying to ban plastic model kits and toys. (Or at the very least, try to ban some of these insane gore movies that have got to give all kinds of nut jobs great ideas and motivation..)

[pickelhaube]

Nazis and zombies. That would make for a good movie.
OOPPS Wrong thread.
Just busting your chops Aferguson

[Moth]

Exellent post GooglyDoogly, I now see why the PC'ers have the motivation.

Honestly, I love the Luft 46 planes. Not because I wanted the war to continue, but because I love German aircraft designs. They simply look better to my eyes.

One thing I noticed is that people say the Tigers decimated American and British tanks, ect. but no one seems to care that American and British bombings killed thousands of German people, mostly civilians.
I never did understand that. Germans were "the bad guys" in WWII, but they were people just like the Allied forces.
How many memorials do you see for the equally brave German soldiers?
A Hell of a lot less than for Allied soldiers.

The thing I never did understand is, even if the toys, models, whatever do promote Nazism, so what? There will never be a 4th Riech, so why care about it? The couple hundred of Neo-Nazis today cant do anything, the most they can do is parade the street for a few minutes before the riot police arrive and beat them senceless, so why even care about banning these things?