Admiral 1/18 F-4 Phantom?

Birddog · Post by **Birddog** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:32 pm

Wow....I guess no one read the thread I posted a few weeks back after I spoke with Jason?

Post by **aferguson** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:49 pm

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:51 pm

Birddog wrote:Wow....I guess no one read the thread I posted a few weeks back after I spoke with Jason?

It was read, I remember it. But it is much easier to believe bad news then good these days.

Charlemagne · Post by **Charlemagne** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:29 pm

Jason of Admiral Toys wrote:
B-29 wrote:As of what I heard, your dreams are denied. Here's what I currently know: Admiral toys is out of the military toy business as of several days ago.BBi has no new toolings planned for 2009, but may do repaints. 21st is sticking to repaints, and are still working on a 1/18 F-4. As usual I was told this by the owner of Historic Aviation.
Point 1 about Admiral is not correct. I told Historic that the Hartmann is on indefinite hold because they keep asking for a time of delivery. I was just giving them the answer that they needed to hear at the time. We are not sure when the Hartmann is coming out because we are focusing on other projects.

Point 2 about BBI is not correct. I think you will be pleasantly surprised in the next couple of months. This of course is again one of those "I heard"
rumors on my part. But I have pretty good sources in the industry.

Point 3 about 21st's F-4 is incorrect. This again is an "I heard" rumor from a very credible source that would know the truth about 21st's workings.

I think the lack of communication has brought new life to the rumor mill. I wouldn't believe everything you have heard. I know the lack of communication is frustrating, but not nearly as frustrating as stating something and having it written in stone for every to be held to that statement. The industry has changed, but we are still hear, today at least. Admiral is still working on the SBD. I think it is time to maybe dust off the F-4 master model. Who knows...? I don't think anyone knows what the long term future brings for 1:18 toys. When I find out you all will be the first to find out, if you find out before me, let me know.

Regards,
Jason

Jason.....so glad to see you and Admiral alive and kickin!! I don't know what the future holds for us but I can tell you this much, if you put out the F-4, the Spad, and the SBD you have one sold of each to this customer.

flayrah · Post by **flayrah** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:45 pm

I heard that as part of the next wave of Indiana Jones vehicles, Hasbro is making a Me109 from the Last Crusade. Well actually it's a Me108 made to look like a 109. And it will have oversize rocket-firing tubes on the wings. And it will be 1/24 and one-half scale.

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:48 pm

flayrah wrote:I heard that as part of the next wave of Indiana Jones vehicles, Hasbro is making a Me109 from the Last Crusade. Well actually it's a Me108 made to look like a 109. And it will have oversize rocket-firing tubes on the wings. And it will be 1/24 and one-half scale.

That might be an interesting addition to our aircraft lineup. I always thought the planes from Last Crusade were sort of neat

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:03 pm

flayrah wrote:I heard that as part of the next wave of Indiana Jones vehicles, Hasbro is making a Me109 from the Last Crusade. Well actually it's a Me108 made to look like a 109. And it will have oversize rocket-firing tubes on the wings. And it will be 1/24 and one-half scale.

Holy Von Ryans's Express Bat Man

flayrah · Post by **flayrah** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:19 pm

To quote everyone's favorite Luftwaffe prison guard "I know noothing"

dragon53 · Post by **dragon53** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:01 am

JASON:

Thanks for the update.
Since it appears, 21st's Ritchie F-4 is dead, if Admiral decides to fill the void and release its F-4, I hope it's a Ritchie or Robin Olds F-4---not the "Godzilla" F-4 with the long dorsal antenna.
Thanks again for the ionfo.

Spudkopf · Post by **Spudkopf** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:22 am

flayrah wrote:I heard that as part of the next wave of Indiana Jones vehicles, Hasbro is making a Me109 from the Last Crusade. Well actually it's a Me108 made to look like a 109. And it will have oversize rocket-firing tubes on the wings. And it will be 1/24 and one-half scale.

Sorry to burst your bubble but I think you may find that the aircraft in question is actually a Pilatus P-2, a Swiss trainer in service with that country from 45 until the late 70's or early 80's.

Many a P-2 has been dressed up as a mocwaffe fighter for the big screen and below is a suitably tarted up example:

I believe it's designed of the P-2 started in 42 due the unavailability (at the time) of Arado Ar-96, not flying until 45 it used the same Argus based power plant and propeller as the Ar’s, I understand it may have also used Bf-109E main landing gear components. By no accident the resulting shape of the P-2 was indeed a-kin to the Ar-96 and the later Ar-396 (also manufactured as the SIPA SS.11 in post war France).

So apart from the landing gear the P-2 is really nothing like a Bf-108, which by the way also has side by side seating and not the tandem seating arrangement of the Pilatus, Arado and SIPA aircraft!

Oh and G'day Jason.

popeye357 · Post by **popeye357** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:23 am

Id buy that:)

KAGNEW · Post by **KAGNEW** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:29 pm

thanx Jason.
i talked to Roy at Nats so i knew what i said was true. but you know how rumors go. i'm glad you are still out there.
i still want all the models you said were in works.
but if you could bring back F-4, i know a bunch of jet jocks that would love you. i think you would have a real hit with it.
anyway i'm glad to hear from you and many happy returns from all of us

smokey1 · Post by **smokey1** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:15 am

Jason, put me down for 3 f-4's and 2 SBD's.

supersonicfifi · Post by **supersonicfifi** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:25 am

and me for at least ONE F4 PHANTOM with ONE A 1 SKYRAIDER ...

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:53 pm

I still have 2 Dauntleses on hold at MToys. And if you throw out the F-4 put me down for one as well.

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:40 pm

Jason of Admiral Toys wrote: I think it is time to maybe dust off the F-4 master model. Who knows...?
Regards,
Jason

YES. Please do!

And this time, I doubt you have to worry about an 89.99 F-4 announcement rearing its ugly head again.

KAGNEW · Post by **KAGNEW** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:56 am

i met a new friend this weekend at an IPMS event.

it seems he did the prototype / paint model F-4D for the 21st add.
he used the Tamiya 1/32 F-4D kit in a hurry for them to photo for there site/pix.
go figure!!!!!!!!

supersonicfifi · Post by **supersonicfifi** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:28 am

i was sure of this ! it's not very clever from 21st because with all our contacts & passion the truth was obliged to make surface !

Now we ve got the proof that the guy who is working the 21st CT marketing is a dumb ! Marketing is not to react but anticipate the needs to sell better !

For me they should anticipate a lot : A 10 , Phantom ; migs; B25 ; F 14 , mirage 2000 , tempest .....armor ....

Now with their strategy evrybody is waiting ... (firstly us!

)

We are lucky to find some customizers (even at a price !)

I am very angry about the Phantom Fisaco ! i really think that it could be the most stricking model to any collector and really hope that admiral will go for it !!!!!

I will be one of the first customer !

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:59 am

KAGNEW wrote:i met a new friend this weekend at an IPMS event.

it seems he did the prototype / paint model F-4D for the 21st add.
he used the Tamiya 1/32 F-4D kit in a hurry for them to photo for there site/pix.
go figure!!!!!!!!

LOL really?
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/G ... ki/00.shtm

No wonder the "1/18 Phantom" 21st showed had XTREME DETAIL...considering it's a TAMIYA.

KAGNEW · Post by **KAGNEW** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:33 pm

YUP! thats the one
Ron is a member of another group. we were talking at LSP this weekend

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:56 pm

I might offer another view point. the F-4 fiasco was indeed that, a fiasco. I don't think anyone is denying that no matter what angle you look at it. 21C didn't want to announce the Phantom that early but felt they needed to follow suit so that fans could make decisions from there. Alot has happened since then and the market place is quite different with new challenges. I honestly fear that these changes are what has obviously effected more than just the F-4 for both camps. -period!

As for the Tamyia model. Yes, it totally was ordered up. Roy was pushing hard for that scheme to be S1. The CEO of 21C wasn't so sure, 21C was just starting to build prototypes in both 1:18 and 32 but were not far enough along. So Roy called in some modeling buddies and got an F-4 model built and painted to serve the purpose of impressing the CEO of that scheme, and to serve as a paint master hopefully.

It worked and the the CEO of 21C did end up agreeing with Roy for that scheme to be S1. 21C also felt the rush to show this scheme as a means of "staking out" what scheme they intended to lead with, anticipating that Admiral was also going to still release the F-4 as well, hoping that there would be no cross over at least in paint schemes. This way Admiral could have launched with a Navy version and then go from there. -I can tell you now, that was the discussions being had back then.

About 7 months ago the word from 21C was that the F-4 was on hold, perhaps not going to ever be built, then 2 months later I was told that it had been green lighted again and work was progressing. Now?... Well your guess is a good as mine because I am pretty out of the loop these days. I know one thing for sure. I am buying one from whoever builds one!

-just wanted to throw in the facts as I had them as another point of view. take em or leave em.

Panther F · Post by **Panther F** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:00 pm

Let's hope that both the F-4 and an F-105 are released ... soon.

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:01 pm

Thanks for the update TKO. My question is , why did 21st Century ever release that ad showing the F-4 for 89 dollars? I have no idea why a company would show ads for a product it might never make?

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:13 pm

tko211 wrote:I might offer another view point. the F-4 fiasco was indeed that, a fiasco. I don't think anyone is denying that no matter what angle you look at it. 21C didn't want to announce the Phantom that early but felt they needed to follow suit so that fans could make decisions from there. Alot has happened since then and the market place is quite different with new challenges. I honestly fear that these changes are what has obviously effected more than just the F-4 for both camps. -period!

As for the Tamyia model. Yes, it totally was ordered up. Roy was pushing hard for that scheme to be S1. The CEO of 21C wasn't so sure, 21C was just starting to build prototypes in both 1:18 and 32 but were not far enough along. So Roy called in some modeling buddies and got an F-4 model built and painted to serve the purpose of impressing the CEO of that scheme, and to serve as a paint master hopefully.

It worked and the the CEO of 21C did end up agreeing with Roy for that scheme to be S1. 21C also felt the rush to show this scheme as a means of "staking out" what scheme they intended to lead with, anticipating that Admiral was also going to still release the F-4 as well, hoping that there would be no cross over at least in paint schemes. This way Admiral could have launched with a Navy version and then go from there. -I can tell you now, that was the discussions being had back then.

So basically, how far along was 21st on the 1/18 or 1/32 F4? Isn't that in contrast with 21st's explanation back then that they had a 1/18th F4 mold all along, (like the ME-262 and F-86), and those releases had nothing to do with Admiral announcing their F4 at all...

yeah right.

I might believe that with the 262 and the F-86, but with the F4...21st didn't even have anything to show for it, and just rushed to order up a 1/32 Tamiya model built. Why the hurry all of a sudden? Were they that desperate to run Admiral to the ground?

Competition is great, but what 21st did with the F4 wasn't a fiasco. It was a deliberate attempt to sabotage AT's F4 release in hopes of driving a small company out of the market. Maybe 21st was thinking, "Hey, if we make whatever AT makes and sell it cheaper, they'd bound to go bankrupt! Yay!"

No? Well why was the main selling point of the 21st Phantom was it's 89.99 price point, according the 21st's flyers? Had 21st ever done that for any of their other releases? No.

What were they planning to do, every time AT or BBI announces a release, they contact a professional modeler and ask them to build a Tamiya model just so 21st can say, "Ooh, ooh, we were planning one too all along!!!"

Oh I forgot. BBI is a giant compared to 21st. So 21st will just bully around the small guys.

Karma will get you, sooner or later.

Small Scale Military Headquarters

Admiral 1/18 F-4 Phantom?

21ST over the top

The proof

Re: 21ST over the top