Wondering about AllGo's Passion Wagon

[Coreyeagle48]

Greetings:

It's not just that though, there are good and bad factories in China, just like there are good and bad car dealers here and good and bad food places here. There are many many things today that are made in China, and most of the models we buy are made in China. There is either a shocking difference between some factories or there are factories that are making the stuff cheaper. I think 21st, in order to keep their costs down, contracted with the poor quality factories and therefore this caused the major quality control issues that we have seen in these models. As I have stated previously, I bought many other products that were made in China, and never had the problems like I did with 21st's stuff.

As stated previously, the 21st excuses are getting old, it's either time for them to step it up or pack it in. I do not understand why this forum has consistently bailed them out of the excuses though. By far the biggest excuse was when they couldn't sell the FW-190's and convinced the board to go "help the company and buy 4". That was the most ridculous thing I ever heard, no matter if there was a free special edition plane involved or not. The only reason that was done was because they couldn't sell what they had on the shelf. That should have been a clue right there that this company did not have all its ducks in a row. Then there were the announcement of products they had no hope of making, endless repaints, poor quality, the list goes on. It seemed a lot of folks here just left these problems go as not to upset them when really as customers we should have been demanding better. It was almost like people thought upsetting them would drive them out of business, then there'd be no 1/18, and the world would come to an end.

I liked their products, they were cool, when they were good examples of them. The problem here is that there were far too many poor examples and very few good ones. Look through your collections now, I bet unless you very carefully picked them, you can find a problem with all your 1/18 you have. That's not good business.

If they want to come back, that's good. I just hope they do so as a credible company with a vaild business model and good quality production. I hope they make models that are as perfect as can be and are the pride and joy of people's collections, not the shame of them. Otherwise, their business model will just be a never ending cycle of coming and going.

Corey

[DropTank]

I was on the fence with the PW until I read a few posts, now I think I will buy 2 or 3 if they ship. Good luck All-Go/21st.

[ram04]

Honestly, All-Go is probably all done, its easy to come on the internet and say this is what we are going to do, but to not follow up on those promises and not put the product out, tells me the product was never even produced.

[Rowsdower]

I gotta agree with Corey on this one. The horrible QC on 21st's products was one of the main reasons I gave up 1:18. The 32x was a little better but had more than their fair share of goofs. I remember sitting in the toy aisle closely examining aircraft for a half hour trying to find a good one. You'd find one with a bad spot, the other would be in ok shape but have another bad spot, etc. etc. Not fun.

[tko211]

I am trying to find out more... I will let you know what I find out when I do.

[tmanthegreat]

I will have to agree with Corey and Rowsdower with regards to 21c. They had a number of slip-ups that were, in my opinion, quite unacceptable. I had to go through 3 ME-262s to get one where the landing gear doors didn't break, had to go through a couple Avengers as well. I have a nice example of a BBD P-51 I got at Wal Mart, but I picked the choice example from a pile of 14 of them...

Certainly not everything they made was bad, not by a long shot. I've got many good examples of aircraft and tanks purchased from both mass retail and small retailers. 21c also deserves credit for starting the 1:18 market and even making such large and detailed models as they did. I still marvel at the fact that I have large P-51s and Tiger tanks with interiors sitting about on display

But, again, 21c obviously "did not have all its ducks in a row" and rmade some really questionable business choices. First, they really underestimated the appeal of their items. Sure, they have strong appeal to a group of collectors like myself and the rest of you, but not nearly enough mass appeal to sell in bulk at Wal Mart or TRU, even in the early days. Tie that in with some odd paint schemes (that were always sold in greater quantities than the better ones) a few odd product choices and increasingly poor QC issues and one does not have a winning combination. In the end, the company tried to be bigger than it was and failed hard.

I would like to see All Go be successful, but would really hope they stay away from the old 21c antics. So far, their track record is not too good...

[dragon53]

For what it's worth, my dealer for Hobby Master, etc. had the "Passion Wagon" listed as a pre-order/sold out, but now their website has it up for pre-order again with arrival in July.

[digger]

they really underestimated the appeal of their items

No offense TMan, but I'm not really sure what you're talking about.

Oh, and how many Tomcats did you go through before you got one without Spots?

[tko211]

Greetings:

The reason 21c got thrown out of Walmart was because people kept returning their broken stuff! Walmart got tired of it and I'm sure TRU might have too. The writing it clearly on the wall here.

Well Said and 100% True

Actually not true. I was CC'd on emails from WM executives traded with 21C executives and it was explained that the decision to cut realistic military toys was part of a larger WM strategy to thin down the toy isles during the rebranding efforts WM recently made. On this list was also many Wrestling Toys, NFL & MLB toys, and frankly most anything they saw as a "Adult collection toys" with exception only being to Star Wars, Hot Wheels, Barbie... Etc. 21C was cut from WM along side a couple dozen other companies.

My company also designed package art for Gracelyn Toys (NFL & MLB) and was told essentially the exact same thing. Toy Dept is under complete review and re-work. They simply didn't want those kinds of toys in the program anymore. They continued to say the toy isles needed to much more kid friendly.

So 2 different companies, 2 different markets same message. Both are now out of business. Thanks WM! I stopped shopping there ever since. I now go 100% to Target. I figure that the KIDS can give WM the money they need as they shop for kids toys.

[tko211]

I have made contact with All-Go and I am working on posting some pics of the Passion Wagon Production sample. I can now confirm that Passion Wagon is likely dead. The quality controls were not acceptable from China regardless of multiple attempts and revision rounds. This lack of superior paint and QC from plane to plane along with the expected "soft" response to another P-51D so soon equals a risk factor that is too high in the end. I have been assured that All-Go is still in the game and now shifting to other subjects that were being evaluated. As for the Website, there was a hosting hick-up as some data was being transferred and will be back up very soon.

I will have an official report from All-Go sometime today or tomorrow that will essentially tell you everything I just said and also include the production samples that were not acceptable. So- It appears that in this case All-Go is listening to us and has decided that QC, and subject selection are going to have been deal breakers on the P-51.

[Mitch]

Well Said and 100% True

Actually not true. I was CC'd on emails from WM executives traded with 21C executives and it was explained that the decision to cut realistic military toys was part of a larger WM strategy to thin down the toy isles during the rebranding efforts WM recently made. On this list was also many Wrestling Toys, NFL & MLB toys, and frankly most anything they saw as a "Adult collection toys" with exception only being to Star Wars, Hot Wheels, Barbie... Etc. 21C was cut from WM along side a couple dozen other companies.

My company also designed package art for Gracelyn Toys (NFL & MLB) and was told essentially the exact same thing. Toy Dept is under complete review and re-work. They simply didn't want those kinds of toys in the program anymore. They continued to say the toy isles needed to much more kid friendly.

So 2 different companies, 2 different markets same message. Both are now out of business. Thanks WM! I stopped shopping there ever since. I now go 100% to Target. I figure that the KIDS can give WM the money they need as they shop for kids toys.

I have a friend at WM corporate and he said the same exact thing...thinning out the herd of sorts. He also said the boxes took up x amount of shelf space and that may have figured into it as well.

I also have been a Target only shopper ever since and only step into a wally when I have no other choice.

[Threetoughtrucks]

And, I know this will upset alot of you guys, but 21C never had the intention to manufacture "collectors" version scale models. They were making toys and dollies. Toys break with play. Models are not played with, they just collect dust on shelves.

21C toys were great because they were sturdy and could withstand being played with by 5+ year old children. Not 20 to 50 year old "collectors" of scale model military vehicles and planes.

Almost all 21C pieces are slightly off in scale and dimensions to make them more sturdy and playable.

There are manufactures who make 1/18 models and the prices of these pieces reflect the work put into them.

21C toys break. Get over it...

TTT

[norman888]

I don't get any of the hostility towards 21st. They definately made toys and not collector pieces.

Some members here went through 10 pieces to find a "perfect" example...are you kidding me??? What do you expect from a $30-$40ish 1/18th scale military toy. I have about 50 1/18th scale planes/tanks and had no chance to pick and choose the "best" ones and never tried. Have you ever been into scaling modeling and look at the price of these nowadays?

I never had a 21st piece that had such a blatant QC issue that I would want to return it. Maybe I'm just lucky or too easy. But then again I only found them in small 3-4 quantities at stores and could not be so choosy. I don't think QC has been the death of 1/18th scale at all.

For $100 good luck getting a "perfect quality" P-51...more like >$200!

[paulpratt]

My son first started buying 21st century stuff at TRU after he got finished with call of duty 2. He was 6 when he bought his first pieces. He has dozens of vehicles and probably close to 100 figures from all the various manufacturers. He loves them and has taken incredible care of them.

It's a shame that they were moved from mass retailers. He was devastated.

[usmcchet9296]

I have made contact with All-Go and I am working on posting some pics of the Passion Wagon Production sample. I can now confirm that Passion Wagon is likely dead. The quality controls were not acceptable from China regardless of multiple attempts and revision rounds. This lack of superior paint and QC from plane to plane along with the expected "soft" response to another P-51D so soon equals a risk factor that is too high in the end. I have been assured that All-Go is still in the game and now shifting to other subjects that were being evaluated. As for the Website, there was a hosting hick-up as some data was being transferred and will be back up very soon.

I will have an official report from All-Go sometime today or tomorrow that will essentially tell you everything I just said and also include the production samples that were not acceptable. So- It appears that in this case All-Go is listening to us and has decided that QC, and subject selection are going to have been deal breakers on the P-51.

They should have just made it in kit form and let us build it and paint it ourselves. Same thing with the Jagpanther and KT .... just make the molds and let us put the damned things togather.

[usmcchet9296]

I don't get any of the hostility towards 21st. They definately made toys and not collector pieces.

Some members here went through 10 pieces to find a "perfect" example...are you kidding me??? What do you expect from a $30-$40ish 1/18th scale military toy. I have about 50 1/18th scale planes/tanks and had no chance to pick and choose the "best" ones and never tried. Have you ever been into scaling modeling and look at the price of these nowadays?

I never had a 21st piece that had such a blatant QC issue that I would want to return it. Maybe I'm just lucky or too easy. But then again I only found them in small 3-4 quantities at stores and could not be so choosy. I don't think QC has been the death of 1/18th scale at all.

back in the late 90's 21c made 1/6th scale Vietnam uniforms and weapons and they were great. Much better than Hasblows Joe stuff. 21c later went into the WWII market and there pre-production samples looked great ...then the figures reached the shelves..... they sucked epically and in all honesty 21C never really recovered from it and while the majority of the stuff 21c released was good when the failed they failed bigtime. Then we get TKO saying buy a PW so you can get a KT.... Fool me once .... Sorry as much as I wanted a KT I am not going to get something I didnt want in order to get it ............ Like I said 21C / ALLGO should just sell there molds to JSI and go into another line of work

For $100 good luck getting a "perfect quality" P-51...more like >$200!

[aferguson]

i tend to agree about QC issues not being a big deal. For the money, 21c products were fine. People were expecting too much, for the most part, to complain about little things. Even small broken parts and finger prints. Annoying yes, but get a bit of glue and paint and fix it, ya know?

You were paying $40 for a huge, nicely detailed, painted and finished model/toy. An incredible bargain that we'll never, ever see again.

[usmcchet9296]

I don't get any of the hostility towards 21st. They definately made toys and not collector pieces.

Some members here went through 10 pieces to find a "perfect" example...are you kidding me??? What do you expect from a $30-$40ish 1/18th scale military toy. I have about 50 1/18th scale planes/tanks and had no chance to pick and choose the "best" ones and never tried. Have you ever been into scaling modeling and look at the price of these nowadays?

I never had a 21st piece that had such a blatant QC issue that I would want to return it. Maybe I'm just lucky or too easy. But then again I only found them in small 3-4 quantities at stores and could not be so choosy. I don't think QC has been the death of 1/18th scale at all.


For $100 good luck getting a "perfect quality" P-51...more like >$200!

back in the late 90's 21c made 1/6th scale Vietnam uniforms and weapons and they were great. Much better than Hasblows Joe stuff. 21c later went into the WWII market and there pre-production samples looked great ...then the figures reached the shelves..... they sucked epically and in all honesty 21C never really recovered from it and while the majority of the stuff 21c released was good when the failed they failed bigtime. Then we get TKO saying buy a PW so you can get a KT.... Fool me once .... Sorry as much as I wanted a KT I am not going to get something I didnt want in order to get it ............ Like I said 21C / ALLGO should just sell there molds to JSI and go into another line of work

[ram04]

As far as 21st quality control goes, I still believe that these were meant to be sold as toys, I have never been a nut and bolt counter.

I would like to see ALL-GO come up with something, it does'nt have to be perfect as long as the price is reasonable, there are plenty of guys out there that can take a so-so model and make a exact copy of the real thing.

I got in this hobby late, but was impressed with the fact that it was affordable, if everyone demands that these models be perfect to the last detail, then you better be ready to pay a premium price.

Myself, I was more than happy with what was being offered and wish it was still available.

If Heng Long can sell a RC tank for less than two hundred dollars, I see no reason a static model can't be produced and sold at less than one hundred dollars.

Just my opinion, but I would like to see ALL-GO release something, maybe if they got something on the market and we supported it, they would be able to make a go of it.

[grunt1]

I have made contact with All-Go and I am working on posting some pics of the Passion Wagon Production sample. I can now confirm that Passion Wagon is likely dead. The quality controls were not acceptable from China regardless of multiple attempts and revision rounds. This lack of superior paint and QC from plane to plane along with the expected "soft" response to another P-51D so soon equals a risk factor that is too high in the end. I have been assured that All-Go is still in the game and now shifting to other subjects that were being evaluated. As for the Website, there was a hosting hick-up as some data was being transferred and will be back up very soon.

I will have an official report from All-Go sometime today or tomorrow that will essentially tell you everything I just said and also include the production samples that were not acceptable. So- It appears that in this case All-Go is listening to us and has decided that QC, and subject selection are going to have been deal breakers on the P-51.

Good updates and actual data vs. rumors. Thanks for reaching out to them TKO, keep it coming.

[digger]

i tend to agree about QC issues not being a big deal. For the money, 21c products were fine. People were expecting too much, for the most part, to complain about little things. Even small broken parts and finger prints. Annoying yes, but get a bit of glue and paint and fix it, ya know?

You were paying $40 for a huge, nicely detailed, painted and finished model/toy. An incredible bargain that we'll never, ever see again.

Amen.

[usmcchet9296]

If Heng Long can sell a RC tank for less than two hundred dollars, I see no reason a static model can't be produced and sold at less than one hundred dollars.

No shite ..... Amen

[Airacobra]

If Heng Long can sell a RC tank for less than two hundred dollars, I see no reason a static model can't be produced and sold at less than one hundred dollars.

No ---- ..... Amen

I have been saying this for quite some time now. I dabble in r/c and 1/18 static display models and I always find it tough to understand why the prices of the static planes are rapidly approaching the price of r/c planes. I understand comparing the two is like comparing apples to oranges, but there are several mid sized, 60 to 70 inch wing span, ARF (almost ready to fly) r/c planes out there for less then the price of the higher end 1/18 static planes. You can get a fully painted KI-84 with a 72" wing span for $300 that would require very little work to become a centerpiece of a static display. Plus, if you get up the nerve, you can complete it as a fully functional r/c plane down the road. Now obviously we can't have a dozen of these 60" + wing span models laying around but you understand where I'm going with this. Those ARF's are completely painted and nearly fully assembled by workers and those companies find ways to keep labor costs reasonable. Why can't 1/18 scale companies do the same. I still don't believe these models should cost $100. $60 to $70, sure, but not the prices we are starting to see. Then again I may be way off, but if prices continue to rise because people think they should, I will eventually leave the 1/18 scale market and focus solely on r/c. Much better bank for your buck there in my opinion.

[Coreyeagle48]

Greetings:

That's what I do not understand about some of the comments on this thread. If the planes are $40, fine, then maybe a few gaffs are acceptable and what not, but the 262's were sold for more than $40, more like $70-80 and had numerous problems. Then the F-14 came out and for $250 we got a whole lot of problems. So for someone to come on here and say "Well they are only $40, a few problems are acceptable" is a bit ridculous. Many, many people here paid a lot more for these planes in their collections. If they are going to sell these planes for the price they want, then they better darn well be flawless and not easy to break, simply put.

I've gotten a few Franklin Mint pieces lately for my collection and they are expensive, but the diecast and the paint quality (I know some people have said they got bad ones, I never did) is flawless. It is what I expect when I am paying that much money.

So I guess it goes back to what people were saying, if they are $40 a few little goofs are acceptable but these planes aren't $40 anymore and they aren't really bought by people for toys either. People treated these as collectibles no matter if that was the intention or not.

I know what you mean about the R/C ARF's and many of them are very nicely done. I don't care for the foam ones particularly, but I have an E-Flite Stearman and it's awesome! I love it! It's a great flyer.

I really think the 1/18 scale is a dying breed unless prices can be reduced, quality is better, and interesting pieces are produced, not just repaints of everything. The F-14 was a potiential winner, but it was a disaster in most respects. I'm interested to see what the next piece is and if it is as big of a disaster, a winner or what happens.

[Airacobra]

If you're bored take a look at the KI-84 I mentioned. Believe me, that's a lot of plane for $300. Again, I know it's an apples to oranges argument, but if you can get this for $300, there should be no reason our 1/18 planes should cost more than $70.

http://www.vqwarbirds.com/product_info. ... 191f354f47