Toys or models what is it going to be?

Rowsdower · Post by **Rowsdower** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:44 am

hworth18 wrote:Btw, Just to be back on topic..
My Corgi (and others) 1/72, 1/48 and 1/32 have "Adult Collectible" written on the box..

Just looked at my new Corgi 1:72 Midway Dauntless box and your right! I never noticed that!

75th Ranger wrote:Even the old GI JOES 12" are making a comeback at Walmarts.

I saw a few of those next to the 32x. I knew about the old school Joes with the fuzzy heads and "kung-fu grip" but I never actually saw one. If the box had a picture of what the thing actually looked like instead or artwork I would have bought one.

Light.Inf.Scout · Post by **Light.Inf.Scout** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:58 am

21C filed for Chapter 11!? whats the story with that?

olifant · Post by **olifant** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:08 am

I don't care what my wife says, my collection is made up of "Historical Replicas."

I love the handful of 1/18 planes I have but I must agree gentlemen, 1/32 is where the action is.

I was just thinking the other day at how many new releases we have seen in the last few years. I won't take the time to count but between all the manufacturers it must 30+ armor and planes, not counting the numerous repaints and small figures/diarama sets.

How many can we count for 1/18? Eight or nine with most of those being mods to existing half-track pieces?

I love all you big scale guys but I think you should come over to 1/32.

Walk towards the light!

jeffrowse · Post by **jeffrowse** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:22 am

When a toy tank from my local supermarket costs me £15 and comes with two or three figures plus machine guns, "barbed" wire and other goodies it's a toy.

If it costs me nearer £50 and only has a driver, it's a Collectable or a model.

Or, if it costs me £50, has no figures at all, boasts "stick-on-battle damage!" and bears only a vague resemblance to wha tit is supposed to be, it's part of the Star wars range...

As a sidenote,

Black Lion VF-213 wrote: Those toys are all based on fiction where Hollwood can create fantasy. War isn't fantasy. Fantasy appeals to more people than history. Sucks but it's true.

Hollywood also has a bit of a habit of changing the reality to fit in with their idea of what should have happened.
Despite the film, Jon Blonde Jokey did not take part in the capture of the submarine U571. Nor did any other Americans.

MightyMustang · Post by **MightyMustang** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:21 pm

olifant wrote:I don't care what my wife says, my collection is made up of "Historical Replicas."

I love the handful of 1/18 planes I have but I must agree gentlemen, 1/32 is where the action is.

I was just thinking the other day at how many new releases we have seen in the last few years. I won't take the time to count but between all the manufacturers it must 30+ armor and planes, not counting the numerous repaints and small figures/diarama sets.

How many can we count for 1/18? Eight or nine with most of those being mods to existing half-track pieces?

I love all you big scale guys but I think you should come over to 1/32.

Walk towards the light!

After I get my 1/18th Hellcat that is what I'm gonna do. Switch to 1/32nd and 1/48th scales. I have enough 1/18th planes and the Hellcat will be my 1/18th swan song.

immeww2 · Post by **immeww2** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:25 pm

They are whatever you want to call them be it toys, collectibles, model replicas, thingies, etc. I'm just glad that they are here and there is more to come. Anxiously waiting for the King Tiger and 88 gun.

MightyMustang · Post by **MightyMustang** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:36 pm

I'm gonna give my thoughts on this toy or model thing as I should have before. I consider all my 1/18th planes and 1/32nd planes as models. In fact I detail them so much so that many think that is just what they are: models and not toys. Case in point my 1/18th Ridge Runner 3 P-51. I replaced the prop, replaced the tires, added brake lines ect just to give it a more relaistic look and feel to it. I have done the same to my BBI Marines Dream Corsair along with my BBI HHH Mustang. So do I consider these as models? Yes I do. Toys? No because they are not at all played with.

Thats just my take.

olifant · Post by **olifant** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:13 pm

It needs Hollywood's endorsement.

It maybe somewhat costly but it would be far less than a commercial slot- I'm talking about product placement in the right movie(s). Some popular summer blockbuster where the lead character is in a pivotal scene and somehow either one or a couple of planes or tanks from any of the three XD makers is handled and made reference too and becomes some sort of focal point in the movie. Doesn't have to be the main focal point, just something that makes the audience take notice for more than one scene. Then you have more people in America (who otherwise wouldn't have though about previously) thinking about these really cool big airplanes whether they're toys or models, doesn't matter.

There will be some office exec who probably had a dream of flying for the Navy or Air Force or driving a tank for the Army or built model planes/tanks himself and has no idea XD exists, after seeing the movie searches the internet for these planes or tanks and lo and behold by the end of the month he has a Corsair or F-4 Phantom hanging from his office ceiling. Everyone coming by says, "Wow, where did you get that?" or "Awesome, I saw that in _____ (insert movie's name here), I want to get one too".

I am thinking something with Meg Ryan in it. Like the movie where she meets that guy and falls in love, then they break up, then reunite at the end. Wait, that is every damn movie she does!

See the price I have to pay to make up for my "Historical Replica" purchases? Night after night of Lifetime network...

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:23 pm

Two points:
1- Toy or Model for the next generation.

My 2 year old Grandcrumbsnatcher comes in my house.....where he heads for Pop-Pop's special room. He walks in, looks around and maybe reaches up and touches a tank or plane, either 1/6 or 1/18. He knows he can't play with them and heads right for the big Hasbro aircraft carrier and turns it on and the sirens go off, the noise of a plane taking off, the radars spin and he can steer it. It does something...our toys for big guys don't do anything. They just sit there and look, just so nice. Our toys started out out as toys but with today's prices it would do the big 2 1/2 to change marketing. WW2 Magazine, VN Magazine and others. We in the MVPA already have toy dealers getting premium prices in the MVPA magazines and at MV shows. Jumping into TV may be too costly at first, ...baby steps...they will quickly find out if this board is just a bunch of whiney collectors wanting more, allways more or we have something in this market direction change.

2- 1/6 is dead?

I hardly think so, as 75th Ranger says, 12" will never die. DID just announced a completly assembled and painted in your choice of patten, a 1/6 SdKfz 251, in metal and plastic (I'm pretty sure, details are not complete but it sounds and the prototype pics looks good enough for the TTT pocketbook hinges to creak open for some serious pre-order money for something that may be here after X-Mass) and no sooner did DID announce that when DML announces a whole line of 1/6 KITs started with a Kettengrad for around $100.

1/6 might be dead to 21C but the market today is steady and we see young guys on the boards so the demand is there for almost all of 21C's 1/6 vehicles today it seems foolish to wash their hands simply because they made a 1/9 Abrams that was flawed and a Humvee that had black windows with no interior. So 21C got their fingers burned and we wouldn't just buy an inferior product just because it had a 21C name on it...silly reasoning.

My 2 cents.

TTT on the soapbox.......

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:03 pm

Light.Inf.Scout wrote:21C filed for Chapter 11!? whats the story with that?

They did, but that was back in 2002-2003 around the time their original contract with TRU was cancelled. That year, we only got a couple new 32x planes, with the M2 Bradley, Hummer, and "Patton" WC-57 command car in 1:18. (So don't ever say "its a bad year for collecting" as we haven't seen a year as worse as that insomuch

) 21c was then able to revamp themselves with their Wal Mart contract and things are looking bright for the moment!

Someone else may be able to fill in the finer details of 21c's financial troubles, however.

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:04 pm

That was a good historical recap, tman.

Morian Miner · Post by **Morian Miner** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:09 pm

Does it really matter? If its a toy, but to scale, you can customize the heck out of it to make it a "model". Just because someone calls it a model, doesn't mean I'm not going to fly it around the room and strafe the dogs. Just let the manfacturers make stuff, and we can either like it or not like it.

Honestly, I'd prefer the toy aspect. No matter how much detailing or research a company puts into it, someone is going to have to point out everything that's wrong with it. Aim low, get the product out, and let the customizers go nuts on it.

Light.Inf.Scout · Post by **Light.Inf.Scout** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:28 pm

Threetoughtrucks wrote:Two points:
1- Toy or Model for the next generation.

My 2 year old Grandcrumbsnatcher comes in my house.....where he heads for Pop-Pop's special room. He walks in, looks around and maybe reaches up and touches a tank or plane, either 1/6 or 1/18. He knows he can't play with them and heads right for the big Hasbro aircraft carrier and turns it on and the sirens go off, the noise of a plane taking off, the radars spin and he can steer it. It does something...our toys for big guys don't do anything. They just sit there and look, just so nice. Our toys started out out as toys but with today's prices it would do the big 2 1/2 to change marketing. WW2 Magazine, VN Magazine and others. We in the MVPA already have toy dealers getting premium prices in the MVPA magazines and at MV shows. Jumping into TV may be too costly at first, ...baby steps...they will quickly find out if this board is just a bunch of whiney collectors wanting more, allways more or we have something in this market direction change.

2- 1/6 is dead?

I hardly think so, as 75th Ranger says, 12" will never die. DID just announced a completly assembled and painted in your choice of patten, a 1/6 SdKfz 251, in metal and plastic (I'm pretty sure, details are not complete but it sounds and the prototype pics looks good enough for the TTT pocketbook hinges to creak open for some serious pre-order money for something that may be here after X-Mass) and no sooner did DID announce that when DML announces a whole line of 1/6 KITs started with a Kettengrad for around $100.

1/6 might be dead to 21C but the market today is steady and we see young guys on the boards so the demand is there for almost all of 21C's 1/6 vehicles today it seems foolish to wash their hands simply because they made a 1/9 Abrams that was flawed and a Humvee that had black windows with no interior. So 21C got their fingers burned and we wouldn't just buy an inferior product just because it had a 21C name on it...silly reasoning.

My 2 cents.

TTT on the soapbox.......

I love 1/6 too. It seems it is getting harder to find and with size, that is an issue for me, unfortunately. DID is making a 1/6 sdkfz 251!!!!??? Is there a website or something for that. That is a must have!!! Room be damned. I'll sell a car and ride the damn thing to work! Man that wouldn't be pretty these days. I wish 21C would have made their 1/6 Panzer III that was rumored.

75th Ranger · Post by **75th Ranger** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:07 pm

21C needs to make more 1/6 vehicles r/c and not r/c as well. I will buy them even if they are 1/9....they look good, are playable and are not tha expensive.
the new DID german hanomag costs $900 - $1000 dollars and that is NOT acceptable in my book!!!
I rather have a 1/9 M1A1 Abrams that sounds like a Stuart any day, honestly....

even the 1/18 21C armor is really nice even if it is in r/c....
for me 21st needs to get back in the 1/6 scale business...they are doing well, i think, with the 1/6 weapon sets....so why not more itmes....little by little.....their old stuff still sells.

well, that's it for now over.....

Light.Inf.Scout · Post by **Light.Inf.Scout** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:17 pm

Agreed! 21C 1/6 stuff is what got me back into this hobby. 900 - 1000 buck...ouch! That is a little pricey for my educator salary, I really would have to sell a car and ride it to work,LOL. Still, that will be soooo freakin cool!!!

Coreyeagle48 · Post by **Coreyeagle48** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:54 pm

Greetings:

Perhaps 1/18 scale won't die, but as I said, the companies need to continue to develop product to satisfy the public interest. We have been treated to a lot of our favorites over the past couple of years, now they need to go to the next level.

I think if we would see anything disappear in the 1/18 world first it would be the aircraft. They are just so big and complex and I think the brick and mortar stores don't really have an interest in carrying large quantities of them. I'm very interested to see if the BBI-Target relationship continues because I know someone who works for Target and the store managers dislike large items because they tend not to sell and take up shelf space. I think one of the reason TRU continues to stock the PTE repackaged stuff is because it is cheaper and people will pay the money for it. There is more playability with things like that. But at my TRU, the BBI Corsairs have just sat there forever, and they don't appear to be getting sold anytime soon. That is worrisome for 1/18 scale planes.

I also feel Walmart is partially to blame for the situation, today I happened to frequent a Walmart and find Starfighters, but they were up on the top shelf and no one was around. It's distrubing to me because I just didn't want to bother someone to get it, and therefore walked away. I just wonder how many other buyers see these, but don't bother because they stick them on the top shelves.

And Walmart will always sell remote control cars because they sell, especially at Christmas time. It seems like that is a standard Walmart Christmas gift is an R/C car. Heck I even got one being 26 from my grandmother to race around the driveway, LOL.

I think 1/18 has the potiental to survive but may in the future be confined to businesses and stores that support our hobby and sell these types of items. Meaning we may not find them in Walmart in the future, or TRU or even Target.

Corey

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:13 pm

Because of the size and the potential for accuracy 1/18 is the perfect size for vehicles. As much as I like 1/18 in vehicles, I also think 1/18 is not good for figures, 1/6 is great for figures and poor for vehicles only due to the size necessary for vehicles. Space is also why I think 1/32 has the great potential for accurate planes. Hopefully we will see the bigger twins and maybe multi engine planes which are really not possibe in an average house in 1/18, but in 1/32? I intend to have a B-25 when it is available but really how many really big planes can you have???

I'm basically a vehicle guy and I'm here because 1/18 21C hooked by price, accuracy and strong constructio.

I have six 1/6 tanks in various stages of construction, I mean, that's a whole room by itself. (Sherman,T-34, M-10, three Stuarts)...this doesnt include support vehicles, Jeeps, trucks, armored cars. my Sdkfz 250's and Ketts by the ton).....and who knows how many figures...I love them but as I will get more, maybe my direction should be to quality, like the DID Sdkfz 251 (BTW, I know of at least one other member of this board who has pre-ordered this piece..expensive? somewhat, but the prior DID Ketts are just super, as well this piece will be, and it looks like it will be limited to 300 pieces by DID).

Yesterday, a cleaned out two Home Depots and one Lowes of the shelves I want and this past Sunday, my son and Mrs. TTT helped me clean out my garage and attic of toys in preperation for my new shelving....no more hiding my "treasures". Right now they fill three rooms.....already, I realize, my under construction and big MIB toys will have to live in the garage...

IF you have the room, by all means, go ahead, collect whatever you can afford and have the space (and ceiling height) for....

TTT

Light.Inf.Scout · Post by **Light.Inf.Scout** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:19 pm

Here's a site with a preorder for DID 1/6 german half-track. I use this company alot...they're great. Price seems lower than others I have heard about.

http://atlantictoys.safeshopper.com/910/cat910.htm?519

Rowsdower · Post by **Rowsdower** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:39 pm

Light.Inf.Scout wrote:Here's a site with a preorder for DID 1/6 german half-track. I use this company alot...they're great. Price seems lower than others I have heard about.

http://atlantictoys.safeshopper.com/910/cat910.htm?519

Those things are freakin' amazing! Sadly I don't have the room or the income to spring for one of them!

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:23 pm

Scout:

Your link to Atlantic Toys is the cheapest official etailer price yet. My pre-order is in with a small dealer that will try to hopefully beat that price. We shall see. Word is only 300 will be produced worldwide with only 150 for the U.S., and the "251" will be the more desirable "C" model. Sounds and looks great. Might have to cancel that order for a Russian mail order "maid" I ordered....

TTT