Official 1:18 Scale NY Toy Fair Thread

immeww2 · Post by **immeww2** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:53 am

While reviewing the Toy Fair pics, I noticed that 21st put a P51 in a FW 190 box. I thought that was kinda strange.

MightyMustang · Post by **MightyMustang** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:25 pm

21st Century Mustang to blow away the BBI Mustang? Aint we getting ahead of ourself here p51? All some of us have seen is pics of the new 21st Mustang and thats it, its not even the final product. To me it looks s like a carbon copy of BBI's Mustang and thats not a bad thing but a good thing. And teamski you say the 21st Mustangs nose is spot on well so is BBI's because I've compared actual P-51 blue prints to the BBI Mustang and the out line and shape of their Mustang is "spot on" to use your words. The only thing over done on BBI's Mustang is the blown canopy which some Mustangs did have by the way.

What some of us are forgetting is that these ARE STILL INTENDED AS TOYS and nothing more so there is going to be some faults. If 21st comes out with the new and improved Mustang good for them, and good for all us Mustang fans because I can never get enough of the Mustang. This does not have to turn into a war of whos making the better product 21st or BBI. 21st has given me two great looking F4U Corsairs in the Ike Kepford Bird and The Checkerboard F4U and soon I'll be adding the P-47 "Snortin Bull" to my collection as well. But what BBI gave me is a great lookin Mustang and I'm sure we will see alot more WW 2 warbirds in their future as well. Its great to be a collector because both companies are giving us fans what we all want.

Just my thoughts.

digger · Post by **digger** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:32 pm

"This does not have to turn into a war of whos making the better product 21st or BBI." - Agreed.
They both have pros/cons, and the competition is good for all of us

I only wish BBI could get with the program. After the M4 & p-51 I thought we had another real player in the 1:18 WWII market but it hasn't happened yet. When 21st jumped in they gave us both Axis & Allied fighters, tanks, figures & jeeps. I just wish BBI could even come close

MightyMustang · Post by **MightyMustang** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:37 pm

I have to agree with you digger. BBI should have followed up after their Mustang release and gave us more WW 2 planes but missed the boat so to speak. Thats one area 21st didnt let us down on.

Post by **p51** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:03 pm

Well who knows, maybe there are more WW2 planes coming out soon from BBi. I seem to recall there was a P-47 at Toy Fair last year at the BBi booth. Really, the mustang just came out not long ago, give BBi some time. They haven't missed the boat yet.

21st Century Mustang to blow away the BBI Mustang? Aint we getting ahead of ourself here p51? All some of us have seen is pics of the new 21st Mustang and thats it, its not even the final product.

I just have a feeling that they're going to do their best to beat it, and as Digger said:
The Mustang is not finished - they were confident that one of the final mods would be groundbreaking.

I think we can expect good things!

And teamski you say the 21st Mustangs nose is spot on well so is BBI's because I've compared actual P-51 blue prints to the BBI Mustang and the out line and shape of their Mustang is "spot on" to use your words.

Actually, the Bbi Mustang is not correct, especially the nose and canopy. I brought it to the Planes of Fame Museum last month and took it over to the P-51D 'Spam Can' and the P-51D 'Wee Willy II'... and the general concensus of all the people who were with me (some of which who are mustang experts and work in the famous fighter rebuilders) agreed there were problems with the nose and especially the canopy. Still, the detail is amazing and you can trace the panel lines on the BBi Mustang to the real Mustang and they are almost identical.

Spudkopf · Post by **Spudkopf** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:22 pm

G'day All

Since this is starting to become a bit of P51 thread, Id just like to pass comment on the apparent use of raised rivet detail of the BBI mustang (I do not have a BBI P51 so I base this assumption on the pictures I've seen) this for me is a little bit of a disappointment, as all the Tangs that I've ever seen (and most other aircraft for that matter) have had flush riveting, and when painted (as most RAAF examples are) the rivets become more or less invisible.

I do understand that raised rivet is the easiest way to show this kind of detail and model makers have been doing this, well since forever, however I would have liked it better if BBI had used the method 21stCT are using on the upcoming Avenger (as shown below in one of Teamski's pictures).

Taking it one step further the little engraved circles that where used on the old Revell 1/32 scale Bf109 F/G would be the most realistic way to show flush rivet detail on unpainted aircraft in this scale.

Just my 2 centidollars worth

Back on topic thanks to Teamski & Digger and others for there NYTF reports.

Post by **p51** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:20 pm

That's a nice shot, I haven't seen one that detailed yet of the avenger. Sure looks better and better everytime I see it! (and the first time I saw it I was amazed!

)

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:17 pm

I just got back into town from toy fair and I wanted to jump in on the thread for the new 21st P-51. It is not yet complete and the version there did not reflect the final changes that will be added in the final production run. While all of the details were not fully disclosed even to myself I can comment on the few that I do know. The final version will have the most accurate and correct spinner, and prop blades ever produced in 1:18 scale. Also the exhaust ports will be perfected. As Teamski mentioned there is more work to be done on the gear. The prototype shown did have excellent range on motion on all the moving control surfaces. The canopy and wind screen also looked to be far superior to anyother version produced thus far. As I said I still don't know for sure what else 21st plans for improvements but I was told it would be an addition never before seen in 1:18 scale! I think mustang experts will be impressed with the final product. It was great to see some people from the baord. I met Digger, Teamski, and even Dirk from Germany! That was my highlight of the trip! Avenger is awesome, Panzer paint schemes and new marines were sweet to! It was a fun show.

MightyMustang · Post by **MightyMustang** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:06 pm

In response to p51's comments about the nose of BBI's Mustang being wrong all I have to say to that is I am more liable to believe a man like Merle Olmstead who in WW 2 worked on the 357th fighter groups Mustangs and in a book signing he gave BBI's Mustang high praise saying that it was the most accurate Mustang he ever saw. And to Bud Anderson who was at the same book signing said the very same thing, who I may add signed the top of my BBI Mustang wing. So both men saw the aircraft and had high praise and they were both heros of WW2 who knew the Mustang well. So I will take both vets opinions before any elses. But thats just me and dont apply to anyone elses assumptions or opinions. As for the over blown canopy I agree its over done but not bad because I have pics of Mustangs with that style canopy. Other Mustang experts who know the Stang very well have also said its very well done and one of those experts happens to be Valdo Lenosch a man who owns TWO Mustangs and is very well known. That all being said I'm sure 21st's Mustang will be very well done and be compareable to BBI's version and to some better but BBI set the standard and no one can take that away from them.

Post by **p51** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:03 pm

Personally, I'd take the comments of those who have worked on mustangs and built them and restored them rather than those who have flown them as those who have built them have had to deal with working on the nose shape. No offense to vets of course, I have a very very high respect... but we're talking the likes of the world famous pilot Steve Hinton (he owns two mustangs)and the company that is the best fighter restorer place in the world. They've restored countless Mustangs. Currently at the museum are three P-51Ds, TF-51D, P-51A, and an A-36 Apache. These guys know what they are talking about. While the BBi one is the closest yet I'll admit... it's not perfect.
And I still think 21st can take the bar away from BBi. We all said that when the Corsair came out, that was the bar. That was taken away for while. The two companies are raising the bar overall, and it's the challange between the two that keeps the bar raising higher and higher. When one company sets the bar at a certain level, why would the other company make something that has less? I'm just saying that I think 21st can do it.

MightyMustang · Post by **MightyMustang** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:43 pm

p51 you and I may have our differences and views on the BBI Mustang but I'll give you this, what you said is very true and I'll be man enough to give you credit on your post. I think the bottom line is we should just be thankful that two companies like BBI and 21st are giving us what we all want like I said before. I have no further to comment because we all have our opinions and 21st may change my mind when it comes to the 1/18th Mustang, they may very well take the crown from BBI as far as the Mustang is concerned and if they do then I'll be the first in line to give them praise. But until then the BBI Mustang is still the best in my opinion. Time will tell if that changes or not.

The future looks very bright

Post by **p51** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:25 pm

Yes, the future does look bright! And my room is looking smaller than ever!

Can you imagine a bunch of repaints of the F-104 and the Avenger?? He he. I may have to rent a hangar from the Planes of Fame Museum and start my own aircraft museum!

MARKSMAN1 · Post by **MARKSMAN1** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:34 pm

Well there is not alot that I am excited about. No new figures, no new armour or artillery or vehicles in 1:18 scale, just repaints, though I will probably pick up the panzer repaints, and the Japanese soldiers though they were not shown. I was hoping to see more than what was shown, there will be more no doubt maybe later in the year. I guess I won't be spending as much this year on xd stuff, but it is a big star wars year so I guess I won't be saving too much. I was hoping to see the new western stuff by Dusty Trails, or new ww2 stuff from BBI, but we got a no show on both. You airplane guys should be happy I guess, some neat stuff there, and I will probably pick up the Avenger when it shows up.

Gunner · Post by **Gunner** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:27 am

I wouldn't sweat it just yet. February isn't even over yet. The year is still young and some exciting things have already happened. I think this will be a good year for 1:18, not just in aircraft, but in other areas as well. I know the Sherman, Super Humvee and Kiowa have all flown off the shelves around here, and not too many months ago, TRU couldn't keep the carded figures on the shelves.

shorty · Post by **shorty** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:45 pm

i hope they decide to add the borsch light to the series 2 panzer iv's and put the barrel back in its proper position

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:24 pm

shorty wrote:i hope they decide to add the borsch light to the series 2 panzer iv's and put the barrel back in its proper position

I was told that they expect the barrels to remain rotated like they are. Silly really, but no big loss.....

-Ski

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:36 pm

There's a new video of the retooled P-51 on the 21c fanclub site. Thats going to be a pretty nice plane when it comes out, but I would rather they focus their efforts on getting a new type of plane out instead - such as the Avenger or F-104 - then hit the remakes.

hworth18 · Post by **hworth18** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:02 pm

tmanthegreat wrote:There's a new video of the retooled P-51 on the 21c fanclub site. Thats going to be a pretty nice plane when it comes out, but I would rather they focus their efforts on getting a new type of plane out instead - such as the Avenger or F-104 - then hit the remakes.

I don't blame 21st for retooling this plane.. It was seriously outdated and since BBI put out a stunner of this version, the P-51D is an almost guaranteed best seller.. The more they can put in the bank, the more they have to "play with" new molds..

MightyMustang · Post by **MightyMustang** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:10 am

A re-tool of their Mustang was way overdue in my book and so far from what I've seen and heard its going to be a winner.

MightyMustang · Post by **MightyMustang** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:30 am

Just veiwed the video of the 1/18th Mustang from 21st. From the video the unfinished product already looks pretty darn good. I wonder what the final version is going to be like? I hope BBI is watching because their Mustang version may be in trouble. I also saw picts of the Avenger and all I can say is WOW! Its is going to be a beauty and a plane I will certainly get. BOTH planes will be on my list to buy when they finally come out.

kimtheredxd · Post by **kimtheredxd** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:17 pm

Any one notice it seems the whole tail comes off the avenger in the pics from the toy fair or so it seems.This must be how they are going to fit it into the"standard box"Still cant wait for it to come out!Glad to see it looks like the wing hinge is a beefy one.I hope some one opens this baby up and puts an complete interior in it!

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:44 pm

Interesting observation for the tail on the Avenger. That appears to be the same thing that will be done with the F-104, and is quite similar to what 21c has done in the past with the P-38, UH-1C and the AH-1W. A removable tail on the Avenger will make it easier to install and access the interior for the radio station and the belly-gunner's seat.

That Avenger had better come with an interior, and if interior efforts on past 21c planes, helicopters, and even tanks are any indication, we should get the full deal!

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:43 pm

tmanthegreat wrote:Interesting observation for the tail on the Avenger. That appears to be the same thing that will be done with the F-104, and is quite similar to what 21c has done in the past with the P-38, UH-1C and the AH-1W. A removable tail on the Avenger will make it easier to install and access the interior for the radio station and the belly-gunner's seat.

That Avenger had better come with an interior, and if interior efforts on past 21c planes, helicopters, and even tanks are any indication, we should get the full deal!

Yeah, both planes were broken down for that exact reason: boxing. I didn't get a look inside the Avenger, but Roy mentioned that it does have a detailed interior. I just wished that I took a picture of the boxed F-104 that was on display. My bad.......

-Ski

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:57 pm

Don't worry about the picture of the Boxed F-104. There's one on the 21c site or at least its in the background of one of their pictures. In the box for a different plane, I believe.

shorty · Post by **shorty** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:59 pm

did anyone inquire to roy about a 1/18 scale wirbelwind. they have the hull already, all we need is a new turrent and we're set to go?