The 21st B-25 Price discussion

[75th Ranger]

$39.98 regular price

on cleareance:

$15.00



I seriously think that in many Walmarts it will become a CLEARANCE item. In a few it will sell well. Just like the Avenger....it did not sell around my area until it was totally on clearance after X-mas.

[Panther F]

I don't know. The M5's sold out around here at $150!! So, at $99 to $110 wouldn't be too out of reach for Walmart!



Jeff

[luftpanzer]

Just wait a while after it comes out. Then you can get it at clearance fo $25.00

[pickelhaube]

This plane is a little bigger than the Avenger not a lot bigger. The price range should reflec this so I am in at between$70 and $90.

But that is the price range of the Avenger - so you're saying the same price range??

Yes I am.

Also do you think that the big wigs at 21st will base there price on this thread? Come on. This is not pointed at you Digger but the other guy.

[tkjaer21]

I'm thinking it will be anywhere from $79.99 to $119.99. Clearenced to abot $50.00 or less at Wal-Mart later on. It is a great plane, it does not seem any more complicated than a P-38 to build. Not anywhere near the problems that they have had with the Avenger. I'd also say that the F-4 is going to be the most detailed oriented plane from 21C to date. My guess is that it is going to be in the same price range a long with the B-25's. They have already given us the hint that it is going to be cheaper than $140.00. Both the F-4, B-25, and Avenger are A-level planes and comparible in size.

[tpa05]

First I agree - don't give 21 a reason to consider charging more. Not only that, what's happening is the e-tailers are reading this and thanks to many of the replies they now know that they too can indeed charge more regardless of what they pay 21.

As for what the price might be at wallyworld, definately no more than $89. I'm a parent and (acting for a moment as a non-1:18 collector) if I'm walking down the isle and I see an array of different aircraft (from 21) you can be sure that it ain't the $100 model that goes in the cart. The conversation will go something like "...look kid, they all got wings, grab the one with the single propeller" or maybe "... ya got too many toys to begin with and ya broke the last one I got ya" or finally "... and the one with the single prop will fit in yer room better anyway and for the price we can buy two of those".

Most of the toys that approach $100 "do something" meaning they are probably remote control or at least "light up" or "make noise". Payin' $100 for something that I know as a parent will either end up broken into pieces (if purchased as a toy) or collecting dust on a shelf ain't something many dads (or moms) are gonna let happen. Again, I know as a collector and a pilot how much I look forward to an aircraft like this but to the outside world a $100 toy that does nothing more than look really cool isn't something most parents are willing to consider.

Here's something else to consider - how many 21 planes will NOT be sold now that we know the '4 is commin' down the pike? Ok, I'll say it - has anyone considered that 21 might delay the release date of the Phantom in order to "get rid" of the other aircraft that are already out on the market? What I mean is I've got to believe that some at 21 know that the other aircraft that would normally leave the shelves (like the Hellcat and even the '25) will now remain in stock as many (like myself) are simply saving their money until the Phantom comes around. Many of us have purchased a "comfortable" amount of aircraft to hold us over and, while we might like some of the new stuff, it doesn't come close to how we adore the Phantom.

Another option, make the smaller and cheaper A-4. Again, small and easy to build. Looks cool and is a great compliment to the Phantom. That one would sell - in my opinion - and make up for the loss on the more expensive stuff they're putting out this year.

[digger]

One, we shouldn't forbid relevant topics that are not offensive or flame. This is a discussion board - it is ridiculous to say let's not say this or that...

Two, who says the B-25 is going to WM? The P-38 never went to WM. All you guys waiting to get one on clearance for $50 may never get the chance..

[warhawker]

Two, who says the B-25 is going to WM? The P-38 never went to WM. All you guys waiting to get one on clearance for $50 may never get the chance..

That is not entirely true. I have the S1 P-38 and I remember buying it at WM.

[VMF115]

As it is right now the online stores already charge more for the single prop almost 20 more for the Big Beautiful Doll P-51 and that's on sale. I bet we see BCA sell it for around 120. I will wait till it drops down a bit I can say one thing I will not pay ebay prices or to hefty of a price.

[digger]

Two, who says the B-25 is going to WM? The P-38 never went to WM. All you guys waiting to get one on clearance for $50 may never get the chance..

That is not entirely true. I have the S1 P-38 and I remember buying it at WM.

no you didn't.

[VMF115]

That is not entirely true. I have the S1 P-38 and I remember buying it at WM.

no you didn't.

Lets all be cool here. lets not fight.

[Threetoughtrucks]

Speaking as a parent that raised three kids to adults, I bought toys, not to be broken, I bought toys I wanted . I bought my kids toys I never had as a kid. Mrs. TTT always was in charge of anything bought for the kids, EXCEPT toys. No toys came in my house without the TTT approval.

Sure, some got broken, especially broken by the youngest little terror (now FDNY officer, with 1/1 MV's in the yard) but more were played with and enjoyed. My daughter still has every Star Wars figure she ever received and wishes she still had the vehicles. Her house is filed with collectivle toys from tiny Hobbits up to 4' high Kiss dolls....we go to Toy Fair every year.

The B-25 will sell no matter what price 21C can put on it. Read other scale boards. Whenever the 21C B-25 is mentioned, there is always positive reaction and the "I'll get one" comments.....and this from guys who wouldn't touch a 1/18 toy.

Will 21C gouge us with price? Hardly. Will our etailers charge us more than WM? Count on it. Will bloodsuckers on eBay sell it for outrageous prices? Absolutely!!! That is a collectors life.

I think the ideas that 21C wil charge us under $100 for the biggest plane they have ever thought about producing is just wishful thinking. Thinking about any price for the B-25 under $75 is just dreaming. Thinking about not discussing a reasonable price for 21C to charge us because then etailers will then think of jacking the price even more is just unrealistic.

I'll wait on this one and I'll pay. AND one will be purchased for my two year old grandson to be held until he woun't destroy it and me and TTTJr can play with it while TTT3rd just looking on..........another military collector in the making.

TTT

[tpa05]

I see are alot of names with alot of words and what they contain are opinions - nothing more. Lets all calm down.

My suggestion - chicken soup.

[aferguson]

i doubt 21c would even consider making a b-25 unless they knew they could sell it through WM. Versions of the P-38 did make it to WM but that's irrelevant anyway because remember it was produced before the WM deal and was originally sold thru TRU, which is essentially the same thing, in that it is a large retail chain.

So, with the exception of the odd paint scheme i have no doubt the Mitchell will be sold thru WM and most probably for the same price as the F-4, in the same way the stuka sold for the same price as the me-109, spitfire, p-47 etc etc etc.

[tpa05]

Me dinks Ferg said it all!

[digger]

I didn't mean to sound like I was fighting - just trying to keep the record straight - The P-38 was not at WM. Aferg, don't know why you think otherwise. The box, the price point - never.

[Moth]

The P-38 was at TRUs, maybe your mixing them up?

[VMF115]

I didn't mean to sound like I was fighting - just trying to keep the record straight - The P-38 was not at WM. Aferg, don't know why you think otherwise. The box, the price point - never.

I seen the P-38 at WM next to the P-47 years before I started to buy them. unless I seen something else...

[warhawker]

I didn't mean to sound like I was fighting - just trying to keep the record straight - The P-38 was not at WM. Aferg, don't know why you think otherwise. The box, the price point - never.

I seen the P-38 at WM next to the P-47 years before I started to buy them. unless I seen something else...

Hence my comment, I remember buying the p-38 at WM. It was around the end 2001 beginning 2002 when I got it. I remember because I was just moving into a new apartment after returning from working in Europe right after 9/11 and I had nothing to really to decorate my new bachelor pad. The p-38 along with a Stuka and a Me-109 was what I bought in order to display them on new shelves at my new pad.
This point is mute and the real discussion of this thread is what will be the price point be for the B-25 if, as 21st has in the past with other aircraft, allow it to be sold at WM or online retailers?

[Moth]

Someone should ask TKO, he should know for sure.

[tpa05]

Ok, so what if the P-38 wasn't there. What if it was an illusion and it never was at any of the larger retailers, who cares. It was before the wedding between 21 and Wallyworld. The wedding is still going strong - period. With this you can be sure that if the Phantom is gonna be there then so too is the '25. Again, it's how 21 has decided to sell it's product(s).

Before I continue - please, lets not argue which one is more complicated and therefore require more in terms of production costs. They both are - period. If someone does choose to make the arguement then build another thread.

To TTT, I commend your son's ability to refrain from breaking his toys. My son too is pretty careful to make sure that all his aircraft remain safe. The problem however is that my son has friends and they aren't so careful. I'll leave it at that. What I might suggest TTT is that the next time you go to Walmart you stand at the end of the isle and watch who runs up and down it. After say 15 minutes or so ask yourself how safe any of the aircraft built by 21 would be in the hands of any of those kids. Sure, a few might be recognizable after a few weeks but for the rest who knows. With this, I return to my earlier suggestion I that the parents of these kids would be less than willing to purchase anything approaching $100. Look, it's simple, what the readers of this forum appreciate regarding the quality of the 21 product is not shared by your average Walmart customer.

[digger]

Before I continue - please, lets not argue which one is more complicated and therefore require more in terms of production costs. They both are - period. If someone does choose to make the arguement then build another thread.

That is what this thread is about - what the B-25 should/might/could/will cost. A lot of that has to do with the size and detail on the plane. Also the crew, and where it is sold. I understand your point about toys appoaching the $100 mark and will not upset people more by suggesting it could cost more, but what if it was a B-17 they announced? Would you still insist it should be no more than $100 under the same theory that kids break toys and these are toys sold in WM? Eventually that has to give...

Also, Warhawker, your 2002 shopping sounds a lot like what they had at TRU around that time..

[pickelhaube]

Back to the P-38 at Wal-Mart The P-38 was NEVER at the Wal-Marts down here. They were in the Toy-R-us though. They were also at the Puerto Rican Toy-R-us. I went down there with the family and picked up 6 Samantha Paytons. They also had 10 each of the props. The fountains and buildings and such for $5 but I passed. It was tough getting those 6 P-38 back on the plane. Concessions were made.

Again I am in at $70 to $90. for the B-25.

[tmanthegreat]

The B-25 is going to be expensive - not excessively expensive, but costly nonetheless. It will cost more than the Avenger, that's for sure. Why? The plane is going to be huge!

Here are some pictures of my Corgi B-25, Hobby Master TBF Avenger, and Matchbox P-38, all in 1:72 scale. I have included a 1:72 pilot figure and the FOV 1:72 M3A3 Halftrack for size comparisons.







Imagine these in 1:18. The B-25 alone is going to require alot more the plastic than the Avenger and it will be heavy! This little Corgi model even has metal landing gear struts.

BTW, I would love a B-25 J in the configuration of the above model

[tpa05]

Like I suggested before, stand in the isle and watch who's shopping. I've got to believe that once 21 decided to use Walmart as it's primary vehicle for selling it's product(s) that it was then that 21 was forced to consider who the typical Walmart customer might be. It's not just a matter of building a product and expecting it to be put on the shelves at their leisure. It's Walmart that decides the sale potential of each item and the two main considerations are (1) profit and (2) price and, with this, the expectation that it will move off the shelves in what they determine is a reasonable amount of time.

Here's another consideration. I've got to believe that one of the things that's being discussed at Walmart central is how many of the 21 aircraft remained on the shelf after the holidays and were then forced to be put on clearance. What was the loss on this? A number will be generated and when the discussion over how much Walmart will be willing pay for the new aircraft is made it is this number that they'll present to 21 and use to discount/reduce whatever 21 hopes to recieve on their new items.

If the '25 were to be sold at e-tailers only then 21 can (should?) make the aircraft as detailed, realistic and historically correct as possible. Here the buyers of this particular product are quite different than those who frequent the venues offered for sale of their other products. The buyers of this particular "e-tailer-only" product are more demanding but also more willing to pay for what they know (hope) to be a product that in terms of quality is better than any that can be found at any of the large departments stores (such as uhm say Walmart?).

Things changed once 21 and Walmart got together. If the '25 is gonna sit on one of Walmarts shelves then it better appeal to Walmart customers. How is this determined? Price. It's why we go there for so many of our other products.

Before the marriage, the variables used to determine profit were based (primarily) on production cost vs profit margin. How this was determined included how/where the product(s) were to be sold. Now it's Walmart who (in part at least), dictates the cost and hence profit for the 21 product. Will the '25 be sold at Walmart? If so, I say once again, stand in the isle and looks who's shopping.