AT F86 v 21st F86

Quixote511 · Post by **Quixote511** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:06 pm

Well, I put both of them side by side (thanx to Grunt1 for hooking me up with the Huff). I think 21st takes it as far as pilot and cockpit are concerned. And, the gun bay access is nice. But, I like the moveable surfaces on the AT model. The fit seems better on the AT model as well. I also think the quality control is better for AT. But, I really like the livery of the Huff above any of the AT mounts.

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:15 pm

I would have to say this is a debate very much like the one for the BBI vs 21c P-51. Thankfully, the AT and 21c F-86s are different models of the plane, with the AT version being the E and the 21c version being the F model!

The cockpit detail and figure on the 21c plane deffinitely put the AT F-86 to shame, though the AT cockpit in all respects is pretty well done. The opening guns, deep intakes, movable control surfaces, and landing gear are also well done on the 21c aircraft, and exceed the AT plane.

Where the AT F-86 really comes out ahead in my comparison, however, is with the paintjob and panel detailing. The AT plane just looks more shiny and the panel lining is more crisp. The use of different colored sections where different metal alloys were used on the plane (such as around the gunports, and on the tail) makes for a nice contrast. I painted the area around the gunports on my 21c "Mitches Squitch" F-86 a slightly darker shade of aluminum to try to achieve the same effect. There are even more stenciling details than on the 21c plane and AT even detailed the droptanks.

All in all, I think both are great models and that both have a good solid construction. I am very pleased with both

However, my hat does go off to Admiral Toys for producing such a great F-86 as their company's very first 1:18 plane

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:08 am

Thanks for the comparison guys. I still have yet to see an F-86 in my AOR, so I haven't had a chance to compare. Personally, unless the 21st version knocks my socks off, I'm more than happy with the AT version.

-Ski

Quixote511 · Post by **Quixote511** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:16 am

SOmething else that came to mind----I like AT's packaging better. I know I have to make some concessions to 21st because their boxes have to be robust enough to sit on Wally shelves. But, there is a wonderful ease to opening AT boxes. I don't need to have a full sapper's kit of knives and wire cutters to get my plane together.

supersonicfifi · Post by **supersonicfifi** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:28 am

I am the happy owner of a 21st century F 86 and i am amzed at the beauty of this model does anybody has a photo comparaison with both side by side to forge a better idea ... I am hesitating to order on AT myself because i like the leading edge slots & the speed brakes are better looking ....

but i agre with the other AT is now a full competitor on this market, we must support them 100% !

i will make some photos of my F 86 & mig 15 this week end !

Philippe

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:09 am

I have gotten a few PMs asking me to compare the Admiral F-86 to the 21st Century so here goes.

First off they both are really nice models, and both capture the look of the F-86 nicely. That being said, I do think the 21st Century F-86 is a overall better looking model. Starting at the front, the intake on the 21st Century Sabre is right on. It has a slightly more oval shape than the Admiral F-86, and that is the shape of the prototype Sabres intake. Plus the 21st Century Sabres intake is open which really adds to the appearance. If you look in the front wheel well of the 21st Century Sabre you can see the tube that runs from the intake into the engine compartment. Very nice indeed. Next the 21st Century model has a much better detailed front landing gear strut. The Admiral strut really has no detail on it at all, and to me this really makes a difference in appearance. Plus the 21st Century Sabre has a steerable front strut. This is neat because on the real Sabre the nose wheel turns when it is retracted. And the 21st Century models front landing gear doors sit in the proper position when the front gear is extended. The Admiral doors just hang down. I have modified my Admiral F-86s to sit in the correct position. I also find the front wheel and tire on the Admiral plane to be a bit to big. Moving on to the cockpit the 21st Century Sabre wins hands down. The instrument panel is better detailed, and the seatbelts in the 21st Century Sabre are really well done. And if you notice when you open the canopy, the detail holding the formation light moves back with the canopy with the 21st Century Sabre. This is correct as this i how the real Sabre is. On the Admiral plane, this detail does not move back with the open canopy. One of the nicest features about the 21st Century Sabre are the removable panels to expose the six machine guns. That panel is one of the best fitting parts I have seen on a 1:18th scale model. It snaps in so well it looks like it is molded into the plane. The Admiral F-86 does not have this feature. The Admiral Sabre is an F-86E version, and it has really nice leading edge slats on the wings. When extended, they really look great. The 21st Century plane is an F-86F, and this model had the hard wing design with no leading edge slats. On both models the flaps move, but on the 21st Century model the ailerons move also. While talking about the wing, I noticed that the Admiral model has really nice looking main gear wheels and tires. The Admiral model captures the big brake hub on the Sabres main wheels well. I find on the 21st Century model the hubs don't stick out enough, and the Admiral model has tire tread which looks great. The 21st Century models main wheels have not thread design on them. Both models have nice main gear struts, but I have to give the edge to the 21st Century model here. They are a bit better detailed, and not as chunky as the Admiral model has them. The detail you see when the airbrakes are open are nice on both models. But I find the Admiral model to be a bit nicer. On my Admiral CL-13 Sabre, the detail is really well painted, while the detail on the 21st Century model is just overall painted silver. And I like the way the struts pop out on the Admiral model that hold the speed brakes open, they work really well. The 21st Century model has these struts also, but you have to stick the end into a little hole in the fuselage to hold them open. Both models have great looking vertical stabs, but I don't like how the rudder pops out on the Admiral version. It leaves a gap, and you have to push it back in. The 21st Century model has really nice horizontal stabs. These are nice one piece items, and they are made nice and thin to really capture the look of the real Sabre. I find the Admiral horizontal stabs look to thick, and they are made of two pieces each, which are glued together. I like the paint work on both models. But I must say the camo paint job on my Admiral German CL-13 is fantastic. This is some of the best paint work I have seen on any 1:18th scale model. If you have both models do this. Look at a picture of a real F-86 from the front, and look at both models from the front. You will see that 21st Century has really captured the look of the Sabre. I find the Admiral models fuselage to be just a little bit to thin. I mean in the middle of the fuse. The 21st Century model has the lines right on, and captures the somewhat oval look of the F-86 from the front. Like I said earlier, 21st Century really did their homework in getting the front intake right. To me that makes a big difference in how the model looks. Oh I almost forgot about the pilots. I like them both. I did some paint work on the helmet of my Admiral CL-13. I painted it camo to match the plane. I sent a picture of it to Jason at Admiral and he really liked it also. To sum up these are both nice models. I look forward to future repaints on both of these. Thanks to Admiral and 21st Century for making a great model of my favorite fighter plane..........Sabrefan

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:06 am

You need to double-space that

Well said!

digger · Post by **digger** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:22 am

tmanthegreat wrote:You need to double-space that Well said!

Spoken like a true prof Tman.

Btw, great review Sabrefan.

warhawker · Post by **warhawker** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:23 pm

Sabrefan, I thought you had a side by side photo of the two planes posted once? Is that not so?

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:28 pm

No warhawker, I had a photo posted of the 21st Century F-86 and Mig-15 posted side by side.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:40 pm

tmanthegreat wrote:You need to double-space that Well said!

Sabrefan wrote: I have gotten a few PMs asking me to compare the Admiral F-86 to the

21st Century so here goes.

First off they both are really nice models, and both capture the look of the

F-86 nicely. That being said, I do think the 21st Century F-86 is a overall

better looking model. Starting at the front, the intake on the 21st Century

Sabre is right on. It has a slightly more oval shape than the Admiral F-86,

and that is the shape of the prototype Sabres intake.

Plus the 21st Century Sabres intake is open which really adds to the

appearance. If you look in the front wheel well of the 21st Century Sabre

you can see the tube that runs from the intake into the engine

compartment. Very nice indeed.

Next the 21st Century model has a much better detailed front landing

gear strut. The Admiral strut really has no detail on it at all, and to me

this really makes a difference in appearance.

Plus the 21st Century Sabre has a steerable front strut. This is neat

because on the real Sabre the nose wheel turns when it is retracted. And

the 21st Century models front landing gear doors sit in the proper position

when the front gear is extended. The Admiral doors just hang down. I

have modified my Admiral F-86s to sit in the correct position. I also find

the front wheel and tire on the Admiral plane to be a bit to big. Moving on

to the cockpit the 21st Century Sabre wins hands down.

The instrument panel is better detailed, and the seatbelts in the 21st

Century Sabre are really well done. And if you notice when you open the

canopy, the detail holding the formation light moves back with the canopy

with the 21st Century Sabre. This is correct as this i how the real Sabre

is.

On the Admiral plane, this detail does not move back with the open

canopy.

One of the nicest features about the 21st Century Sabre are the

removable panels to expose the six machine guns. That panel is one of

the best fitting parts I have seen on a 1:18th scale model. It snaps in so

well it looks like it is molded into the plane. The Admiral F-86 does not

have this feature.

The Admiral Sabre is an F-86E version, and it has really nice leading edge

slats on the wings. When extended, they really look great.

The 21st Century plane is an F-86F, and this model had the hard wing sign

with no leading edge slats. On both models the flaps move, but on the

21st Century model the ailerons move also.

I noticed that the Admiral model has really nice looking main gear wheels

and tires. The Admiral model captures the big brake hub on the Sabres

main wheels well. I find on the 21st Century model the hubs don't stick

out enough, and the Admiral model has tire tread which looks great. The

21st Century models main wheels have not thread design on them. Both

models have nice main gear struts, but I have to give the edge to the

21st Century model here. They are a bit better detailed, and not as

chunky as the Admiral model has them.

The detail you see when the airbrakes are open are nice on both models.

But I find the Admiral model to be a bit nicer. On my Admiral CL-13

Sabre, the detail is really well painted, while the detail on the 21st

Century model is just overall painted silver. And I like the way the struts

pop out on the Admiral model that hold the speed brakes open, they work

really well. The 21st Century model has these struts also, but you have to

stick the end into a little hole in the fuselage to hold them open.

Both models have great looking vertical stabs, but I don't like how the

rudder pops out on the Admiral version. It leaves a gap, and you have to

push it back in. The 21st Century model has really nice horizontal stabs.

These are nice one piece items, and they are made nice and thin to really

capture the look of the real Sabre. I find the Admiral horizontal stabs look

to thick, and they are made of two pieces each, which are glued together.

I like the paint work on both models. But I must say the camo paint job

on my Admiral German CL-13 is fantastic. This is some of the best paint

work I have seen on any 1:18th scale model.

If you have both models do this. Look at a picture of a real F-86 from the

front, and look at both models from the front. You will see that 21st

Century has really captured the look of the Sabre.

I find the Admiral models fuselage to be just a little bit to thin. I mean in

the middle of the fuse. The 21st Century model has the lines right on, and

captures the somewhat oval look of the F-86 from the front.

Like I said earlier, 21st Century really did their homework in getting the

front intake right. To me that makes a big difference in how the model

looks. Oh I almost forgot about the pilots.

I like them both. I did some paint work on the helmet of my Admiral CL-

13. painted it camo to match the plane. I sent a picture of it to Jason at Admiral and he really liked it also. To sum up these are both nice models.

I look forward to future repaints on both of these. Thanks to Admiral and

21st Century for making a great model of my favorite fighter plane..........Sabrefan

It easy on the eyes this way...

you can send the check to me...LO jk

scbvideoboy · Post by **scbvideoboy** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:14 pm

Teamski wrote:Thanks for the comparison guys. I still have yet to see an F-86 in my AOR, so I haven't had a chance to compare. Personally, unless the 21st version knocks my socks off, I'm more than happy with the AT version.

-Ski

The 21C F-86 will knock your socks off.

DH

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:36 pm

For those who are interested, I am posting a detailed article on AREA-21 tomorrow that will highlight the F-86F "the Huff". You can plan on seeing roughly 20+ pictures taken from all angles and showing all details. If you look on AREA-21 now you will see this has already been done for the MiG-15.

Obviously my stance is going to be slanted more to the 21c model. -I am sure you all understand my position. I have reviewed both versions closely abd honestly I have to say that the 21c version is superior in almost every aspect. However in consideration of the fact this this is AT's first release and that it's even being compared to a 21c version is feat in itself in my book. So you have to give AT props for a maiden product that is for sure!

Those of you who own an AT F-86 have nothing to feel bad about. But honestly, if you like the Sabre you really should spend the 45.00 -55.00 bucks on a 21c model to see what all the talk is about and decide for yourself. As someone already pointed out they are 2 different versions so that also might help in your decision / justification for both. (like my wife will ever be sold on the differecne of a hard wing vs. slat wing).

Detailed pics of the Huff go up tomorrow on AREA-21!

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 4:54 pm

I now have both and I can say I love them both, if you don’t have the AT or the 21st get them both, they look great together, I still like the AT F-86E paint techniques its just stands out over the 21st F-86 F. In fact out of all the Aluminum depicted aircraft I think AT F-86F best depicts them all.

Both Sabers are great and should be displayed next to each other.

One question about the 21st f-86F is it me or does the front wheel hub look different then what was used on the real aircraft?

If that is was the way it is supposed to look can some one shot a link.

http://www.fav-club.com/articulos/f86/F ... lles-3.png

Rowsdower · Post by **Rowsdower** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 8:29 pm

I feel the AT Sabre looks "toyish" where as the 21st offering has a more realistic design and overall look. I have Mitch's Squitch on my entertainment center and every time I look at it I smile. That's my two cents.

MG-42 · Post by **MG-42** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:57 am

I don't have AT's version to compare with but I'm quite satisfied with "The Huff" and "Mitch's Squitch". The detail 21st. has put into these are awsome.

=

STUKA · Post by **STUKA** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:46 pm

I have yet to see the Huff but Mitch's Squitch looks incredible in the box - yet to take it out. I picked up the 21st. Century version because of the price at WM. Bottom Line. I think both planes look great and my hat is off to Admiral for a job well done. Welcome to the market. Now if I can get the taste of the Japanese Kate out of my mouth....

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 6:15 am

I'm happy with my AT F-86 since I have yet to see any 21st F-86s or Mig-15s anywhere near Delaware. They will show in a year. That's how long it took the Bunker Hill Corsair and Stuka!!!

-Ski

Flak Happy · Post by **Flak Happy** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:00 pm

I thought there was also a size diffrence( and something else...I cant recall what)between the F-86E(AT) and the F-86F(21st)?

Folkwulfe · Post by **Folkwulfe** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:16 pm

Maybe this is nit-picking...or maybe this has been covered before, but here goes. I just got my "Mitch's Squitch" out of the box and together. I must say I am very impressed at first glance. I have one of the first AT Sabres also, so I can easily compare them both side by side too. One thing I haven't noticed....until now that is....is the different markings. While the S1 AT Sabre goofed with the national insignia upside down on the lower right wing, 21st has also goofed IMHO. The ID panels (wide yellow stripes with black outlining) on both main wings does NOT continue completely around the under-surface of the wing like it should. The AT Sabre does.....or am I wrong that it should?

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:21 am

You are correct. The 21st Century F-86 should have the yellow stripe under the wing. I am not sure how they missed that.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:12 am

I don’t like the 21st landing gear wheel hubs front and rear. To do like how the front rotates and the front door hinges and how rear locks.
I do like the AT but like some one stated it’s a bit on the large size

Folkwulfe · Post by **Folkwulfe** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:19 pm

I didn't think I was going nuts! Every picture I've been able to get my hands on that have the yellow ID bands shows them on both top and bottom wing surfaces. Oh well, guess I'll just have to fire up the compressor and try to match the colors. Shouldn't be too hard.

And in case anybody thinks I'm dinging the aircraft...NOT! No matter how you look at it the 21C Sabre is a beaut. The 6-3 wing is dead on, the gunbay doors fit and finish is superb, and the general deepening of the fuselage center section gives the charactoristic Sabre look the AT Sabre just doesn't seem to have. The fuse at the wing root is definately wider across and taller by a hair...perfect. I won't redo other people's reviews...just tell you that all of it is true. AT did a great job, but they have most definately been "aced". Makes you wonder about the 262...doesn't it?

Small Scale Military Headquarters

AT F86 v 21st F86

AT F86 v 21st F86

21st F 86

ha

AT vs 21st.'s F-86F

Nit?

OK