New product development on AREA-21

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:29 am

Moth wrote:I have a solution!

21st Century Toys, make a Dornier Do-335 Pfeil, you can be sure no one else makes it.

Admiral, make the Henschel Hs P.75, you can be sure no one else makes it too

BBI, you will do an Aichi Val

Good?

That what I am afraid of, the less Interesting aircraft will be produced before the widely recognized ones. You have moneymakers and money losers, the me-262 night fighter in my book is a money maker so far and its an Interesting aircraft, I had some time to think about it, it will look very nice next to my AT Me-262.

TKO:
I have to say this even both companies are competing I have to say both Me-262 complement each other, Unless AT has a two seat in the works also, then it would be a big bummer, but that means I have to buy them both. maybe they did sit down for a brief time LOL

chunks · Post by **chunks** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:33 am

Well, I'll get 21c's new 262. I'm real happy with Admiral's offering, but a new version is most welcome also. How many of us have several repaints of the same AC, or even dups of the same AC? Now we can get a "repaint" of a significant different version. I'm all for it.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:46 am

Ok here is one problem that most folks don’t think about or do you?

I picked the B-25 as an example we all want one but we might not want the same version also. and also an Issue that 21st has considered on other aircraft also.

The B-25 ha several different versions, some might like the b-25C while others prefer the B-25J. While I particularly like the B-25J and G with the firepower in the nose. While others will want the Jimmy Doolittle version. The big deference is he top turret on the B and C or place towards the rear while the turret on the J model is towards the cockpit which one does 21st make? Do they tool it so the can modify a generic mold so it can be swapped out? It can be done and I hope to see a B-25, B, C, J tons of repaint possibilities with the B-25 along with a P-61B “not so many”

Or pick your own variant that you like the most

B-25
Major redesign of fuselage, nacelles, engine upgrade,
tail gun installed, no top turret, first 9 airframes had
straight wings.
Produced
North American Inglewood, California (NA)

B-25A
As B-25, crew armour, ADF pod, minor changes.
Produced
North American Inglewood, California (NA)

B-25B
As B-25A, mid upper turret, retractable ventral gun,
redesigned smaller tail cone section.
Produced
North American Inglewood, California (NA)

B-25C / D
As B-25B, engine upgrade, external bomb racks.
58 later converted to B-25G-NA.
Produced
North American Inglewood, California (NA)

B-25G
As B-25C/D, redesigned stubby solid nose with 75mm
cannon or gun packs, ventral turret often deleted.
58 also converted from B-25C-NA.
Produced
North American Inglewood, California (NA)

B-25J
As B-25H, glass nose, engine upgrade, many converted with
extended armed solid nose, 3450 NA-114 & NA-115
orders to NA-108.
Produced 1943 - 1945
North American Kansas City, Kansas (NC

B-25H
As B-25G, fuselage side guns, relocated upper turret,
redesigned waist gun windows and tail gun, ventral
gun deleted. NA-113 batch order cancelled.
Produced
North American Inglewood, California (NA)

chunks · Post by **chunks** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:14 pm

I'd take both the early in any markings (doolittle preferred) and the late in any configuration in any markings (any "monster" preferred).

The point is we have none now, so any is a big step in the right direction. Just bring us one, it'll sell. The same goes for the 'hog and many others.

Panzer_M · Post by **Panzer_M** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:22 pm

Still would like to see a Fw190A-8 or F-8.

20,000 examples would say something to the effect of the airplane.

compared to the 15 or so Me262B1 that saw service..

digger · Post by **digger** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:36 pm

Panzer_M wrote:Still would like to see a Fw190A-8 or F-8.

20,000 examples would say something to the effect of the airplane.

compared to the 15 or so Me262B1 that saw service..

It's like the KT, WSC or Pershing - very insignificant but with ton of demand. Goes with the hobby.

Quixote511 · Post by **Quixote511** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:37 pm

I think that beacuse most of the common planes were tackled by 21st already---we will start to see a more diverse body of work from all three of the companies. We have a Hellcat on the way from bbi. I think soon enough we will see the Dauntless, P51 B, Typhoon & Wildcat, along with some bigger twin-engined pieces because they need to strech out for subject matter. I think that the 262 NJ is a step in that direction.

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:41 pm

After the sales disaster with the FW-190D9, I think 21c may be a little wary of producing another variant of the FW-190. Still, if they have made different models of the ME-109, the P-47, and the F-104, then one of those may be likely at some point.

In regards to the ME-262, I'm really glad 21c chose to make such a unique variant and now I'm also very glad that Admiral Toys has produced a standard one. It would sort of kill me to wait all this time for a 1:18 ME-262, from any company, to only get a very atypical version of the plane. With both types out, however, one's collection can be both representative and exotic

Panzer_M · Post by **Panzer_M** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:03 pm

tmanthegreat wrote:After the sales disaster with the FW-190D9, I think 21c may be a little wary of producing another variant of the FW-190. Still, if they have made different models of the ME-109, the P-47, and the F-104, then one of those may be likely at some point.

In regards to the ME-262, I'm really glad 21c chose to make such a unique variant and now I'm also very glad that Admiral Toys has produced a standard one. It would sort of kill me to wait all this time for a 1:18 ME-262, from any company, to only get a very atypical version of the plane. With both types out, however, one's collection can be both representative and exotic

that's cause noone cares about 4-6 variants 190Ds, like noone cares about the Ta 152. Unlike the service history of the 190A 42-45, in West, Africa, Italy/Sicily, and Russia. Even in 1944 when the Ds came out in the fronts, the BMW powered 190 still was in Service to the end.

Also 21st need to kill the lame horse 109E in all scales, build a F Afrika model, or a K-4 model...they finally moved to the 1:18 109G, but I hardly see them I can go to all 8 Local WMs and find Black Es rotting on the shelf, and they never go on clearance here in Florida...they just rot with Green Zeros and Macchi 205s. And get the 32X non E 109s out.

What about the Ju 87D or G..would be that hard to convert The Bs over, Hell Junkers did it in real life on real machines that needed to be combat ready and able to fly, you think a toy company could mold some plastic.

Jason of Admiral Toys · Post by **Jason of Admiral Toys** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:21 pm

I can say with absolute certainty that Admiral Toys does not have a night fighter version of the ME 262 in the works, nor have we ever had this version in the works. Therefore, rest assured that there will be no duplication of a night fighter version.

Congratulations to 21st Century. From what I have seen of their night fighter it is a great looking representation of this model. I love the detail and engineering.

Regards,
Jason

Birddog · Post by **Birddog** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:47 pm

tko211 wrote:

The A-10 is a whole different matter with a whole other set of interesting facts / problems that prevent 21c from pulling a trigger right now. Can they be overcome... sure. When or how is much harder to say.

-TKO

I hope somebody pulls lthe trigger sometime soon. You know what happens with a gun when you don't shoot it much......

Post by **aferguson** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:38 pm

Now hold up there buck (referring to Panzer M). Some bold statements you're making. I for one was very happy to see the FW-190D when it came out. That, along with the Ta-152 are two of my top favourite fighter planes of the war. Powerful, fast and great to look at.

I'm not denying a FW-190A is not long overdue but that doesn't mean the 'D' was not appreciated or not worth making. They just came out with too many repaints all at once.....a mistake they are no longer making.

As far as the Stuka goes, i'd like a D/G too but i doubt we'll see it. In the eyes of most toy buyers it will look pretty much the same as the B (adding the big under wing 37mm's to a G woud help rectify this a bit) and there have already been 5 or 6 repaints of the first Stuka. Lots of tiny little mods would be necessary, virtually a full redesign in fact. So it would cost nearly as much as making a whole new plane.

Are they going to spend the money and time to make a plane that most WM buyers will perceive to me the same as the earlier Stuka? Doubt it. You're better off to customize one yourself.

On the topic of the B-25 VMF brings up a good point. Which one do they make (if any). My hunch is they would come out with the Doolittle variant first, due to recognizability in the eyes of the public and probably do a modular design so they could reposition the turret and add new nose options etc. I believe they have already done this type of design with the spitfire and 109G, planning ahead for future variants they may choose to make.

BTW, in case you missed the discussion in another thread, if anyone just can't wait for a B-25 there is a very close to 1/18 B-25 available now. Not cheap but looks very good. It's about 1/17. The 'Super Detailed' kit option looks every bit as good as an XD model would. (btw....mine is on the way

).

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/b-25.htm

EnemyAce · Post by **EnemyAce** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:26 pm

Hi Jason,

I just wanted to say that I've been in on XD since the first wave so many years ago, and I think think you and Admiral have shown a LOT of class on all levels since you came into the game, from putting up with all us knuckleheads on the boards, to trying to hash out agreements with your competitors. and others would be wise to follow suit. I also believe that 21st has always been planning on getting their 262 out this winter the way I believe that if Admiral had an A-10 hitting the shores that we'd now be seeing pics of the 21st 2-seater A-10. Keep up the good work, and take the advice and put out a FW-190A with NO fanfare until they're on the boat and you'd rack up some sales. Same for a Dauntless. You gain nothing by releasing info 6 months in advance in this game I'm afraid.

digger · Post by **digger** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:07 pm

EnemyAce wrote:...I also believe that 21st has always been planning on getting their 262 out this winter the way I believe that if Admiral had an A-10 hitting the shores that we'd now be seeing pics of the 21st 2-seater A-10...

Does that mean you believe it or not?

Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:06 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...Currently the Me-262 is scheduled for a late summer 06 release date. There are many other cool secrets surrounding the 262 project, aspects which I am not allowed to share at this time. But rest assured the 21st Me-262 will meet or exceed current standards and is packed with all new features, the mold has been designed in such a way as to endure a long life span with future releases.

21C did say 9 months ago that the 262 was due this year (obviously didn't happen but I know the initial AT schedule for the 262 was late summer as well...sh%t happens).
21C also hinted that the mold would be able to accommodate variety. That said I would expect a single seat version down the line.

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:16 pm

I did a little digging on the me-262 it obviously isn't going to release in the next 3 weeks, thus it will be a 2007 release. I couldn't get a firm ETA confimed but right now all signs are looking very good for a quicker delivery in the early month or so of 2007. My bet is February. Nothing says I love you honey like a 1:18 scale 262 nightfighter for valentines day. It's cheaper than roses and you don't need to water it to keep it alive.

-TKO

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:19 pm

Tko

When will Bad cat get them or does WM has first dibs on them??????

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:23 pm

Way too early to tell on that issue! Though I gotta say if I could choose I would perfer it goes to on-line retailers first! I want one of these badly, I know others do too and waiting around for WM employees to restock can be a major pain. I know I am preaching to the chior on that issue here. EVERYONE here is a HUGE fan of WM distribution...

I would love to see someone like BAD CAT do an exclusive on this puppy!

-TKO

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:28 pm

tko211 wrote:Way too early to tell on that issue! Though I gotta say if I could choose I would perfer it goes to on-line retailers first! I want one of these badly, I know others do too and waiting around for WM employees to restock can be a major pain. I know I am preaching to the chior on that issue here. EVERYONE here is a HUGE fan of WM distribution...

I would love to see someone like BAD CAT do an exclusive on this puppy!

-TKO

Tell them the tribe has spoken, you have your mission now go Push for it and Make it happen!!!

grunt1 · Post by **grunt1** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:41 pm

I'm also happy about the night fighter. Interesting twist on a plane that thanks to AT, is finally out!

What happened to the 21st standard Me-262?

Post by **aferguson** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:21 pm

howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?allworkandnoplaymakesjackadullboy..

parrish333 · Post by **parrish333** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:38 pm

aferguson wrote: And as TKO said as the selection of unproduced aircraft goes down the likelihood of duplication of effort goes up. And this may make the big three blanche. We may never see a Dauntlass or A-10 because each company is worried one of the others may already be making it and get their product to market first. So everyone just freezes and nobody makes it (Jason has already discussed this situation more than once).

Once again this really underscores the need for a coordinated approach between the three companies. Divide up the available subjects equitably amonst them so nobody has to worry about getting burned. This has been proposed by one of the companies but apparently fell on deaf ears.

It's time to forget about corporate pride and to be logical and sensible. It's to the benefit of each of them and it's to the benefit of us and this hobby.

This would be superb!

EnemyAce wrote: Hi Jason,

I just wanted to say that I've been in on XD since the first wave so many years ago, and I think think you and Admiral have shown a LOT of class on all levels since you came into the game, from putting up with all us knuckleheads on the boards, to trying to hash out agreements with your competitors. and others would be wise to follow suit.

And notice Jason had the integrity to compliment his competition on the 21c Me-262 as well!

Jason of Admiral Toys wrote: Congratulations to 21st Century. From what I have seen of their night fighter it is a great looking representation of this model. I love the detail and engineering.

Regards,
Jason

tmanthegreat wrote:Now that's sweet! I am VERY glad to see that 21c has decided to make a different version of the ME-262 than the Admiral Toys version. It allows for a certain measure of co-existence in this hobby and will do a number on our pocketbooks

Imitation is the highest form of flattery, but in this industry, it can also be a kick between the legs! Given the timing of AT's release, doing the two-seat version instead of repeating the one-seater was, IMHO, a flattering yet respectful move.

Well said everybody

FieroDude · Post by **FieroDude** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:07 pm

aferguson wrote:howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?allworkandnoplaymakesjackadullboy..

Y'all really need to stop those impulsive visits to Starbucks for the mega-sized espresso...

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:15 pm

FieroDude wrote:
aferguson wrote:howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?howmanycrewfigures?allworkandnoplaymakesjackadullboy..
Y'all really need to stop those impulsive visits to Starbucks for the mega-sized espresso...

Those cold Canada winters take a toll on a person. Quick get him to some place warm.

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:33 pm

It is confirmed that there will be a complete crew of 2 for the night fighter. More details including pictures will be posted as another article sometime in the next week or so.

The older me-262 mold shown in the post by grunt1 is in the trash can! That mold was built about 5 years ago. It had shape issues, no moving control surfaces (except alierions) and the other problems. The engineering was developed for this version way back inthe day. Other projects took priority each year and the project was put on perma hold Then back in fall of 2004 21C decided to do the 262. All new prototype plans were put in place with forward thinking implementations that have already been noted. According to 21c product development the 2 seat version was planned into the all new model clear back in 2005.

that is what I know so far.

-TKO

chunks · Post by **chunks** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:40 pm

Hey, just had a thought. Sorry, but I'm sure it'll be worth 'bout what all my thoughts are worth. Even so, you are now subjected to it.

With the recent change in detail level, etc, is 21c diversifying? Will there now be a Wally World Grade and a Collectors Grade?