Navy Corsairs

Post by **aferguson** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:21 pm

Since the Corsair wasn't cleared for carrier operations until the fall of '44 does that mean that prior to that Navy pilots flew them from land bases, like the Marines did? And did Kepford fly his Corsair from a land base?

I can't believe i don't know this..

vulgarvulture · Post by **vulgarvulture** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:20 pm

Correct.

Some info on the "Jolly Rogers":

Originally they had planned and trained to be a carrier-based squadron, working with Chance-Vought to iron out the problems with the Corsair's bouncy landing gear, poor visibility, and other 'minor' issues. While VF-17 did qualify for carrier operations with the F4Us, the Navy high command decided to deploy them on land, where they could take advantage of the Marines' logistical support and spare parts. They set up their base at Ondongo, meaning "Place of Death," on New Georgia in the mid-Solomons on October 27, 1943. This was just in time for the landings at Torokina, near Empress Augusta Bay on Bougainville.

airforcecop67 · Post by **airforcecop67** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:18 pm

Admiral Blackburn wrote in his book that prior to deploying to the Pacific, his squadron, and Vought Tech-Reps had all but eliminated the nasty carrier landing habits of the Hog with various uprgrades and improvements. Stronger oleo struts for the gear, a small fence on the left (I think left) wing so that it stalled before the right at landing speeds, etc. etc. Blackburn was steadfast in his belief that the Corsair was fully carrier ready, but the Navy Brass Hats were still skeptical and relegated the Corsair to Marine and Navy ground based units. Brit units deployed their Corsairs on carriers well before the Navy saw the light, and only the advent of the Kamikaze and the Corsairs superior speed and rate of climb over the Hellcat turned that light on. Had the Corsair been deployed earlier, being a superior overall fighter to the 'Cat, the Corsair would have captured the title of Highest Scoring Naval Fighter.

I guess it will have to be content with having the longest production run of any piston fighter, and there is comfort in the knowledge that the Navy relegated the remaining 'Cats to no more than flying bombs guided to their targets by specially equipped drone control Skyraiders over Korea, while Corsairs shot down Migs, ruled the nights skies, and tore hell out of the ChiComs in close air support.

Post by **aferguson** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:16 pm

Great info, thanks guys. So the palm trees beside my Kepford Corsair are correct then..

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:28 pm

I talked with a couple WWII Fleet Air Arm Corsair pilots while I was stationed in the UK (While signing a Spitfire drawing I did). I asked them about the bouncy strut problem and one guy mentioned that this happened several times to him and killed a friend of his. It was cool to get the raised eye of the vet as most people would ask, "did you take out any Zekes mate"? Instead, I asked a question that hit a memory nerve. Early Corsairs had the tendancy to bounce excessively on landing. I mean really bounce. Many pilots were killed because the bounce threw the plane in the air about 15-20 feet and many jammed the throttle to the gates causing the plane to flip over into the drink. The struts were serviced with lower psi and later ones were modified to snub the rebound. The British also had to deal with the birdcage on early -1s and low tailwheels. It's amazing they took them on!!

Every one of the FAA pilots I talked to flew both the Seafire and Corsair and all of them to a "T" preferred the Corsair hands down......

-Ski

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:39 pm

Andrew,

You can use the Kepford Corsair photo in the Profile Album as a reference shot! It's exactly where you want it.............

-Ski

Jagdflieger · Post by **Jagdflieger** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:21 pm

aferguson wrote:Great info, thanks guys. So the palm trees beside my Kepford Corsair are correct then..

Ah provided you don't have it sitting on an aircraft carrier...

airforcecop67 · Post by **airforcecop67** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:57 am

Actually, VF-17 did have decks available to them during one point in their combat tour. They were flying CAP over a carrier group while the groups planes flew strikes against the Japanese. Only one pilot made use of the deck to refuel and rearm. He was a young ensign, but as I cant find my book, I cant recall his name. He was fed, given a cup of coffee by an Admiral, and generally treated as a visiting hero prince while his Hog was being serviced. Blackburn writes that the young man was in awe at being treated in this manner.

Of course it helps that the flattop boys had just watched VF-17 save their butts from incomming Japanese attacks.

Of interest, part of the problems that VF-17 encountered during their work-ups and carrier quals was that the carrier assigned to them (again the name escapes me....but it was the same carrier mentioned above) was that the carrier was new and the wooden flight deck was still "green" ie. the wood had not seasoned and hardened and Blackburn mentions that he felt that the deck itself had some bounce to it and was a contributing factor.

Anyone who has ever put nail to green wood can attest to that.

Now, the Brits had armored decks, with absolutely no give at all. Bouncy struts would have been hell to land on that.

There has been much written over the difference between armored and wooden flight decks in WWII. Each had their good and bad points, I suppose, with each a reflection of the builders and users ideals.

Fighting 17, by Blackburn, is a must read for any WWII buff.

Now if Tom Hanks will just turn it into a movie!

Rogue · Post by **Rogue** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:29 am

Is Tom Hanks gonna be the 21st century John Wayne?

MightyMustang · Post by **MightyMustang** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:41 pm

Ah a favorite subject of mine VF-17. I had the honor of meeting a group of pilots who were in VF-17. What awsome stories they had to tell. They talked about the Corsair and the problems they had with it but all of them said they wouldnt have wanted to fly any other fighter. They talked about Blackburn, Kepford, Streig, and on and on. One pilot said that they were scared as hell when they had to land their Hogs aboard a carrier but when they did they had it licked. Imagin if the Navy would have followed the advice of Commander Blackburn about Corsairs on carriers? The Hellcat would never have been named the "Ace Maker" because in nearly every respect the Corsair out performed the Cat. I have a take on something else that bothers the hell out of me and thats this..............

Why the hell does VMF 214 get all the publicity when it comes to the Corsair and not VF-17? VF-17 shot more enemy planes down then VMF-214 and yet when it comes to the Corsair the first thing you hear is about Boyington and VMF-214. Thats crap and its time VF-17 got some credit as well.

cmelt27 · Post by **cmelt27** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:18 pm

OK, so I read in one of these posts that I need to read Jolly Rogers by Blackburn, which apparently is now out of print. I want to start reading a couple more books on the Pacific, as I have been stuck on the Eastern Front lately.

SO, I was in Barnes and Noble and they had a fairly hefty book called Fire in the Sky by Eric Bergerud. I was wondering if anyone has read it and can make a recommendation one way or the other. Thanks.

Bruzzer · Post by **Bruzzer** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:32 pm

I've read some chapters and they were interesting. I like the P40 so I skipped over to that stuff. Like you said that thing is hefty and I never did go through more than 1/4 of it.

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Navy Corsairs

Navy Corsairs

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