Hey 21C, if your listening, BBI just yelled "Fights On!" Its 3 miles to the merge and your behind in power and altitude. Time for some of that fancy pilot crap.
And there is more on the line here than who buys the next round at the club.
If you are really re-tooling your 51, the minimum standard just got bumped way the hell up!
We all knew that the 21C Mustang was sub-par. Yeah it was the first out of the gate, and yeah its probably the catalyst for everything since, including this board, but we all knew it was way off compared to later releases.
It is a stroke of genius for BBI to come out with a 'Stang, as the overwhelming majority here have something to compare it too. Apples to Apples like. I have already seen posts about boxing up the LOU IV to replace it with KILLER.
If your attempting to de-throne the king, sinking his flagship is a damn sure way to accomplish that goal.
New BBI Mustang!
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airforcecop67
- Corporal
- Posts: 49
- Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:28 pm
- Location: Arizona
to answer the question: "is there anything in accurate on BBI's mustang" and to confirm the suspissions of aferguson....
To say that the riviting looks overdone is putting it mildly. In fact minus the moving surfaces there were no rivets on the real mustangs at all. The mustang was built with 2 things in mind speed, and range. So a totally riveted wing would put more drag on the airframe, reduce the lift performance, and all of that puts demands on more fuel limiting the range of the plane. I went to my local air museum to confirm this. I counted 25 rivets on the upper wing surface (minus moving surfaces) they were all located on the ammo doors and they were flush screws... not even raised rivets.
In short... the real mustangs wing should not look like the side of a b-24 liberator. It really should be all smooth.
I understand that BBI's is an improvement even with the innacuracies. But as mentioned before by someone else. It is not a fair comparison to put BBI's against the model that 21st did over 5 years ago and don't forget this it was the one that started the whole 1:18 scale aircraft thing. It will become clear which is better when 21st releases their new p-51. (without rivets I am hoping).
To say that the riviting looks overdone is putting it mildly. In fact minus the moving surfaces there were no rivets on the real mustangs at all. The mustang was built with 2 things in mind speed, and range. So a totally riveted wing would put more drag on the airframe, reduce the lift performance, and all of that puts demands on more fuel limiting the range of the plane. I went to my local air museum to confirm this. I counted 25 rivets on the upper wing surface (minus moving surfaces) they were all located on the ammo doors and they were flush screws... not even raised rivets.
In short... the real mustangs wing should not look like the side of a b-24 liberator. It really should be all smooth.
I understand that BBI's is an improvement even with the innacuracies. But as mentioned before by someone else. It is not a fair comparison to put BBI's against the model that 21st did over 5 years ago and don't forget this it was the one that started the whole 1:18 scale aircraft thing. It will become clear which is better when 21st releases their new p-51. (without rivets I am hoping).
well, having had time to study BB's pictures it looks very impressive. A couple of things jump out at me; i still say the rivet detail looks too heavy and the squadron codes are wrong (it's supposed to be a 'Q' not an 'O'...while easily fixable this is a surprising error on such a well detailed piece).
Lots of good points about it. Ooodles of detail, bombs AND drop tanks (the bombs may work well on 21c's P-47, i never liked the piddly one that comes with it). 2 types of removable head gear for the pilot plus a nice parachute, seat belts (at last!), great looking cockpit, nice paint job etc.
Pretty much a winner for sure. 21c's new P-51 will be hard pressed to out do it. This bodes very well for future planes. The problem now is that all the older stuff is going to start looking like crap in a few years.
I still like my Lou IV. I have it hung up high and it looks great. I'll display Killer on a shelf so i can see all the lucious detail but Lou IV remains.
Lots of good points about it. Ooodles of detail, bombs AND drop tanks (the bombs may work well on 21c's P-47, i never liked the piddly one that comes with it). 2 types of removable head gear for the pilot plus a nice parachute, seat belts (at last!), great looking cockpit, nice paint job etc.
Pretty much a winner for sure. 21c's new P-51 will be hard pressed to out do it. This bodes very well for future planes. The problem now is that all the older stuff is going to start looking like crap in a few years.
I still like my Lou IV. I have it hung up high and it looks great. I'll display Killer on a shelf so i can see all the lucious detail but Lou IV remains.
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vmf214
- Officer - Brigadier General
- Posts: 1581
- Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 7:23 pm
- Location: USA
- Contact:
I say it is fair to compare to a plane made 5 yrs ago. It's not like 5 years ago was 1932 or anything! Bottom line this output from BBi is nothing more than a swift kick in 21st's ass as far as WW2 aircraft is concerned. 21st finally hired a real modeller evident with the Kepford re-release now all they need to do is get rid of the holder of the neuro-rocketry degree that says a Zero won't sell. Likely the same guy that pushed hard for the CIA Huey... Games' on and I love it!!
Thanks for the pics Dave. The plane sure looks like a winner. I bet 21st is taking notes. One thing would be to add ailerons and hinge the tail surfaces. Dave, can you take a shot of it with the flaps extended??
-Ski
-Ski
[url=http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2869983520050168193AYuxRR][img]http://inlinethumb18.webshots.com/8785/2869983520050168193S600x600Q85.jpg[/img][/url]
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tmanthegreat
- Officer - Brigadier General
- Posts: 11238
- Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 7:38 pm
- Location: Central California
Yes - the helmet is innerchangeable with the hat. Kind of a novel idea, considering all the other varied experiences we've had with 1:18 WWII pilots.
One of the things that strikes me most about this plane is the fact that it simply looks correct. Gone are the thick, flat wings; the toyish undercarriage, and misshaped canopy and cockpit! The BBI P-51 does the real aircraft justice! The Mustang has long been one of my favorite WWII aircraft, and now we all have a 1:18 model of one to proudly display!
One of the things that strikes me most about this plane is the fact that it simply looks correct. Gone are the thick, flat wings; the toyish undercarriage, and misshaped canopy and cockpit! The BBI P-51 does the real aircraft justice! The Mustang has long been one of my favorite WWII aircraft, and now we all have a 1:18 model of one to proudly display!
I have a little more time for some further thoughts....
I assembled my P-51 last night and it looks great. I agree there appear to be too many rivets, but to me that not as egregious an error as some of the ones we saw on the $300+ King Tiger.
The detailing is nice, and I love the weathered look. The pilot figure looks really cool, and, as some of you guys have mentioned, the cockpit is outstanding.
I added the drop tanks and they are absolutely super. Incredible detail!
Is there anything I wish they had added? Perhaps a rear-view mirror (but I don't recall and haven't checked yet to see if this is something that appeared on P-51s. Damn memory....), but all in all I'm very happy.
Anyone interested in World War II aircraft in general or the P-51 in particular owes it to himself to get this plane.
Mike
PS Who the hell packs those things? I assume that's all done by hand!
I assembled my P-51 last night and it looks great. I agree there appear to be too many rivets, but to me that not as egregious an error as some of the ones we saw on the $300+ King Tiger.
The detailing is nice, and I love the weathered look. The pilot figure looks really cool, and, as some of you guys have mentioned, the cockpit is outstanding.
I added the drop tanks and they are absolutely super. Incredible detail!
Is there anything I wish they had added? Perhaps a rear-view mirror (but I don't recall and haven't checked yet to see if this is something that appeared on P-51s. Damn memory....), but all in all I'm very happy.
Anyone interested in World War II aircraft in general or the P-51 in particular owes it to himself to get this plane.
Mike
PS Who the hell packs those things? I assume that's all done by hand!
Post by Mighty Mustang:
"First I want to say hello to all members of the board. This is my first post and many more to come. Heres my thoughts on BBI's new big Mustang so here it goes.
I saw the topic on the Mustang and saw many good posts about it saying how excellent it was and thats good news. I'm a BIG P-51 fan, always have been always will be. When the news first came out about BBI's Mustang and I saw the first photos of it I was blown away. It is far and away better then the 21st Century release and if 21st is going to retool their P-51 then BBI's should be what they model it after. I was never happy with my 21st Blue Nosed Mustang. I dont know what it was but there was just something wrong about it. Then I read one of the posts how someone pointed out the flaws and bang it hit me. Fat wings, raised rivets, poor cockpit detailing just to name a few. I know that 21st Centurys Mustangs were a first for the company but they could have done alot better. It looks as though BBI has corrected those problems and then some with a fine presentation of the legendary Mustang. Some have already pointed out the excessive rivits on the BBI Mustang to those I say "they are alot better then the raised fat rivets". And then I hear that some are offended by the Mustang having the word "Killer" painted on it. That was the name applied to the Mustang by Major Stephens, BBI was only trying to be accurate. In fact all his Mustangs were named "Killer". Heres the flaws I see with BBI's Mustang and there not major. One is the landing gear. When a Mustang is parked the landing gear was not extended, BBI's is and that can be fixed and it will by me. Second. Why in the heck did they put Major John Madden on it? That had to be a joke. That will be corrected as well. The code letters on the fusalage were GQ not GO, simple correction there. And finally the antenna wiring has to go, why? Eighth Air Force Mustangs did not have this feature. I have been thinking about doing a re-paint of my Mustang when she arrives. I would like to have it wear the colors of Chuck Yeagers Glammourus Glenn III or paint it in the color scheme of the 352nd Fighter Groups Petie The 3rd. But I have to see my Mustang first because I just might like it the way it is.
Well enough said but BBI's P-51 I believe has set the standard and I think its a sign of things to come from BBI. Who knows maybe a Hellcat is on the way next? Or how about an accurate P-47? The future looks bright for us 1/18th scale fans and I have to thank BBI and 21st Century for making it happen.
MightyMustang"
"First I want to say hello to all members of the board. This is my first post and many more to come. Heres my thoughts on BBI's new big Mustang so here it goes.
I saw the topic on the Mustang and saw many good posts about it saying how excellent it was and thats good news. I'm a BIG P-51 fan, always have been always will be. When the news first came out about BBI's Mustang and I saw the first photos of it I was blown away. It is far and away better then the 21st Century release and if 21st is going to retool their P-51 then BBI's should be what they model it after. I was never happy with my 21st Blue Nosed Mustang. I dont know what it was but there was just something wrong about it. Then I read one of the posts how someone pointed out the flaws and bang it hit me. Fat wings, raised rivets, poor cockpit detailing just to name a few. I know that 21st Centurys Mustangs were a first for the company but they could have done alot better. It looks as though BBI has corrected those problems and then some with a fine presentation of the legendary Mustang. Some have already pointed out the excessive rivits on the BBI Mustang to those I say "they are alot better then the raised fat rivets". And then I hear that some are offended by the Mustang having the word "Killer" painted on it. That was the name applied to the Mustang by Major Stephens, BBI was only trying to be accurate. In fact all his Mustangs were named "Killer". Heres the flaws I see with BBI's Mustang and there not major. One is the landing gear. When a Mustang is parked the landing gear was not extended, BBI's is and that can be fixed and it will by me. Second. Why in the heck did they put Major John Madden on it? That had to be a joke. That will be corrected as well. The code letters on the fusalage were GQ not GO, simple correction there. And finally the antenna wiring has to go, why? Eighth Air Force Mustangs did not have this feature. I have been thinking about doing a re-paint of my Mustang when she arrives. I would like to have it wear the colors of Chuck Yeagers Glammourus Glenn III or paint it in the color scheme of the 352nd Fighter Groups Petie The 3rd. But I have to see my Mustang first because I just might like it the way it is.
Well enough said but BBI's P-51 I believe has set the standard and I think its a sign of things to come from BBI. Who knows maybe a Hellcat is on the way next? Or how about an accurate P-47? The future looks bright for us 1/18th scale fans and I have to thank BBI and 21st Century for making it happen.
MightyMustang"
Post by Mburduck:
"Glad to see you here, MM. Welcome!
You raise some good points about the slight goofs on the BBI P-51. Any good suggestions on changing the "O" to a "Q" (I'm not a decal expert)?
I, too, would love to see an accurate P-47 bubbletop, too. The P-47 remains my favorite WWII plane. Give me a plane that increased the odds of bringing me back in one piece any day (guess that's why I like the B-17, too). The P-47 might not be as "sexy" as the P-51 (and don't misunderstand--I love the P-51, too), but to me it just looks more...."manly"? Heck, I just love P-47s!
Again--welcome!
Mike"
"Glad to see you here, MM. Welcome!
You raise some good points about the slight goofs on the BBI P-51. Any good suggestions on changing the "O" to a "Q" (I'm not a decal expert)?
I, too, would love to see an accurate P-47 bubbletop, too. The P-47 remains my favorite WWII plane. Give me a plane that increased the odds of bringing me back in one piece any day (guess that's why I like the B-17, too). The P-47 might not be as "sexy" as the P-51 (and don't misunderstand--I love the P-51, too), but to me it just looks more...."manly"? Heck, I just love P-47s!
Again--welcome!
Mike"
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tmanthegreat
- Officer - Brigadier General
- Posts: 11238
- Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 7:38 pm
- Location: Central California
Hopefully someone like Lair is working to make a decal kit for the BBI Mustang. The corrections of the pilots name and the Q letter are not that difficult. The Q is the easiest to make, I would guess one could make a short, black line on an inkjet decal sheet then position that on the O to make it a Q.
Even if a correction kit is offered for this plane, I'm going to leave mine alone. Inaccurate markings aside, its still the best 1:18 WWII airplane released in quite a while and I am VERY pleased with it!
Even if a correction kit is offered for this plane, I'm going to leave mine alone. Inaccurate markings aside, its still the best 1:18 WWII airplane released in quite a while and I am VERY pleased with it!