Opinion on 1:18 scale figures alternative

spect_spidey · Post by **spect_spidey** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:39 pm

I am curious if anybody out there would be interested in 1:18 scale figures being made more like their 1:6 scale brothers. The figure would be a basic nude body made with the same articulation currently used on most 1:18 scale figures, but the uniform be made of cloth rather than sculpted or molded onto the figure itself. I think this would be a good idea for a company to attempt. I think it could help cut down on manufacturing costs. Working in this scale would make things like gloves and boots a bit of a hassle, but that problem could be solved with articulation points at the wrists and mid shin. This would allow a basic body to be used for all figures. Requiring a company to only sculpt new heads, hands with or without gloves, and lower legs with appropriate foot wear for the figure to be released. I also believe it would further the customization capabilities of figures tenfold. There would be endless possibilities with cloth uniforms. They could even just release uniform/equipment sets.

Please vote and let me know your opinions on this idea.

Jesse James · Post by **Jesse James** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:22 am

I voted that I'd have to see one first, however I'm leaning towards no without seeing them.

"Softgoods" as they're called in the industry, are an item that has limited uses with it not looking awkward in this scale. As it is, cloth can, and often does, look awkward in 1:6 scale so 1:18 is often even tougher to work with. It is great at times, like for instance the Star Wars line made good liberal use of cloth in their Revenge of the Sith line this year. Some of the female figures had softgoods skirts, and this yielded some really poseable Jedi Knight figures. Also the Jedi figure for Ki-Adi Mundi was fantastic with its softgoods robe and working hood. Very cool.

At the same time, I can point out tons of times fabric was used and it looked just attrocious. Not so much because it couldn't look good but because the fabric used looked bad.

At the end of the day though, any fabric used isn't going to match a good sculpt for realism, so to that end since WW2 figures don't wear big bulky Jedi cloaks or anything like that I'm ok with the sculpted gear... I'm even really impressed with the pliability of the coats 21st's managed with the BotB Germans and soon-to-be US Trenchcoat soldier. Very cool, very poseable, very realistic. Not that a cloth coat would bug me, but I really can't imagine a whole outfit on a "nude" action figure in this scale is going to look good at all. I just don't see it. With all the stitching of a full outfit, there alone is the added bulk to make it look awkward since it's usually the bulky seams that ruin the looks.

Tack on the belts and things, it could look really funky.

It's kind of like a "real fur" Chewbacca in this scale. Hasbro's tinkered with that idea, and ultimately it's just gonna look so bad they have canned it. They can't even do a 12" figure that way, and things get a LOT harder in the 1:18 scale to look real when it comes to fabric gear. used sparingly and when you need poseability though, then it's real cool. The ROTS line's a fine example, but it was only used to keep a figure poseable and wasn't a whole costume, just a part here or there.

digger · Post by **digger** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:21 am

As it is, cloth can, and often does, look awkward in 1:6 scale so 1:18 is often even tougher to work with.

The outlaw said it best right there. The only thing I would disagree with JJ on is the bulkiness of some of the uniforms did get crazy with FJ, PanzerGrenadiers, Eatern Front, Russians, etc....but still the above problem would be very evident no matter the figure. For example, you could not have 1:18 buttons or zippers, so they would have to be bigger, non-existent, or colored on. You could imagine how any of those options would look.

I have thought about it in the past, but decided it just wasn't meant to be in this scale. That's not to say there isn't room for improvement. IMO figures are getting better and better, there are plenty of improvements that can still be made, and plenty of subjects to cover. If the Japs & the new bbi guys are evidence of what's to come, things are looking bright.

kevrut · Post by **kevrut** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:50 am

I've got about a half dozen 1/18 figs with cloth uniforms. They don't look too bad. I found them about 3 years ago before X-Mas. They have the Team REALTREE and MOSSYOAK logos on their hats. They're the Outdoor Sportsman series by Ertl Collectibles. They have the likeness of many famous fishermen and hunters. I have several Dale Earnhardt Sr. ones. They all have either rifles, bows, or fishing gear along with 1/18 deer, turkeys, or pheasants. Some came with a choice of several dogs.
The uniforms look good though. They don't look bunched up and the stitching looks good too. The basic frame of the figures are kind of thin. You really have to be careful when you pose them, I don't think they would stand up to alot of abuse. My daughter plays with them and a couple times has dislocated an elbow or knee. It's hard to pull his pant leg up to put it back together. The slight bulkiness of the uniforms makes it a little difficult to keep some poses. Overall, they look good. I think WW2 figs would look better, but they would have their problems. I like my WW2 figs just the way they are for now. If they changed now, there would be a major difference in any diorama. (Mixing the old with the new.) I only wish I had a digital camera to show them to you.

kevrut · Post by **kevrut** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:08 am

I found a pic. http://www.toymania.com/toyshows/expo02 ... tl63.shtml

steelbonnet · Post by **steelbonnet** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:55 am

I posted YES for cloth, As i use them on some of my figures. Hell i`ve got 2 Micromen in full combat uniforms (will post later on

)

Though a lot of my customs have cloth jackets to go on them also.
They do sometimes add that little more to them IMO.

ja
Steel Bonnet

immeww2 · Post by **immeww2** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 1:51 pm

I'm not sure. With the body being as small as it is, would the cloth outfits fit properly or would they look like loose clothing? I'm "on the fence" as of now.

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:32 pm

definitely not. Not matter how well executed cloth can never look as natural as molded plastic looks in simulating clothing....especially in such a small scale.

Morian Miner · Post by **Morian Miner** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:40 pm

I voted no. SW did have some that looked okay, but some that were horrid (see the Princess Leia series). Would rather have the toy companies include more accessories and weapons, rather than try to be clothing makers.

KAMIKAZE · Post by **KAMIKAZE** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:02 pm

I also voted no. It's very hard to get the cloth to lay flat without being rediculously
thin and easily damadged. It might also effect the price adversely. I like to buy hordes of cheap figures and lots of accessories.

Mark

SGT. Saunders · Post by **SGT. Saunders** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:18 pm

Hi Guys

I can see maybe a real net on a helmet or raingear, sleepingbag under a backpack, but my vote is NO!!

SGT. Saunders

Quixote511 · Post by **Quixote511** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:14 pm

What gets me is the weave size of the fabric--it never looks to scale.
Aaron

coreystinson · Post by **coreystinson** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:16 pm

If you are curious to see how this might turn out, you can take a look at the Outdoor Sportsman figure line. They are 3 3/4" (~1:18 scale) figures with cloth clothing. I think they turned out pretty well. Note that the clothing is not really intended to be removed. I am not sure how they would have been if snaps or velcro had been attached t the clothing as well.

http://smalljoes.com/ertl_outdoor_sportsman.shtml

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:08 pm

While clothing can work decently on larger figures (like 1:6 scale) it wouldn't come out all that great with 1:18 figures. My example is the Star Wars Ep. II Obi Wan pilot figure, which came with a cloth cloak. That cloak was far too large and misshapped to look anything like the costume from the film.

21c and other companies have done some seperate "cloth" accessories, though they were made of soft plastic to get the more realistic look. Some examples include the opened long coat for the BoB German Infantry and the removable smock for the BoB US BAR Gunner figure.

lsc1002 · Post by **lsc1002** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:05 am

What if they had part plastic and other things cloth, like overcoats, etc.

Robopredator · Post by **Robopredator** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:31 am

Have you guys checked my website out, i make soft goods, and i concentrate on stuff that doesnt look good in plastic like jackets long coats etc, i have been doing it for serious as a business for 3 yrs. The blending of both can work, there are pluses and minuses but i make it a point to use the thinnest fabrics and vinyls to keep the bulk down.

http://www.urbanrevtoys.com

i have also done a few german long coats.
All made my be here in the good ol USA,

i slowed orders over the new year break to reorganize my operation but if you guys are interested just send me an email,
thanks

Robopredator

[email protected]

added some pics sorry for the poor quality,

steelbonnet · Post by **steelbonnet** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:02 am

Hey killi.

Great to see you posting some of your stuff mate & also truely showcases that cloth does work

I will be posting my 2 Urban camo guys like your first photo soon.
After that I`m mainly just jackets. Though well how can you NOT like the Bruce Lee custom.

Anyway Killi Great to see these up & that you are indeed still doing clothing

ja
Steel Bonnet

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:00 am

I disagree that cloth can never be as good as molded plastic in simulating folds in clothing. Have you guys ever visit various 1/6 forums and look at their pics? You can make those cloth items look extremely realistic, but you can't do that with molded items. Because no matter how well you paint and weather it, it would still look like a painted plastic. See various modelling site and look at their 1/16 and larger figure models. Excellent craftmanship, but they still look like statues. On the other hand, there was this Japanese modeller who posted a pic of a German soldier firing his rifle while protecting his comrade a few years ago. At first, most people thought those were re-enactors, but it was in fact a 1/6 diorama with Dragon figures.

In addition, those who said no often point to SW figures as examples how bad it would turn out. Come on, be honest. SW figures are crappy for the most part, with or without cloth items. The only reason people are buying them is because they ARE SW figs, and not because of their quality.

My only worry is the price point.

digger · Post by **digger** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:24 am

My only worry is the price point.

Agreed, I would not want to pay any extra for little clothes.

I don't agree that what works in 1/6 works in 1:18. Again, you literally cannot do buttons or zippers in 1:18, so military uniforms are out. I think Bruce Lee above looks sweet, but just not my thing. I like Soldiers, and they have only been getting better recently and have not gone up in price. I think they will continue to get better and hopefully will not go up in price. Look at how far the 29th Infantry has come from the S1 21C version to the new bbi version

And they are a dollar less at retail!

I want to stay on this path - better & better figures, roughly the same price. Maybe a field Jacket here or Bomber jacket there, but really no need for pants, shirts...c'mon.

Aviatornut.com · Post by **Aviatornut.com** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:35 pm

I have been thinking about this, I think it would be a great idea to have a naked figure then you buy what you want(ie SS uniform) It would only work if the total for both was not more than $10.
I like the idea of buying a figure that has two different of heads to change out then you buy a clothing pack that has the uniform and the gear.
this would open the market to a larger variance

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:37 pm

Aviatornut.com wrote:I like the idea of buying a figure that has two different of heads to change out then you buy a clothing pack that has the uniform and the gear.
this would open the market to a larger variance

21c seems to be attempting to do that with their upcoming Battle of the Bulge figures with all the accessories and the newly released OMG Paratroopers that come with extra weapons and helmets. As I said earlier in the thread, the BoB German Ardennes Infantry figure can be used to create variable figures, as the rubber coat is removable. You can see some of my creations in the photo below:

Aviatornut.com · Post by **Aviatornut.com** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:09 pm

they look great. imagine how much more you could do if you had several uniform option.( south pacific mechanic, SS trooper, russian uniform, ect.)

mediump · Post by **mediump** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:15 pm

aferguson wrote:definitely not. Not matter how well executed cloth can never look as natural as molded plastic looks in simulating clothing....especially in such a small scale.

ditto

"If you are curious to see how this might turn out, you can take a look at the Outdoor Sportsman figure line."

these don't look good at all IMO

mediump · Post by **mediump** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:21 pm

I do love the idea of using the soft rubber like the new BOB figs
but I just think that a whole cloth uniform looks cheesey.
remember dragons (cloth)camo smocks? I never could get those to look good on a 1:18 figure

Aviatornut.com · Post by **Aviatornut.com** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:50 pm

there is materiel that could be used to look more realistic. I know if 21st or bbi could produce one figure to make several figures we would get more variety.
I know some the example have been cheesey but if they use some of new tinner materiel out there it might work.
just an idea.

Small Scale Military Headquarters

Opinion on 1:18 scale figures alternative

Would you be interested in 1:18 figures with real cloth uniforms?

Opinion on 1:18 scale figures alternative

no good

xd

xd

.

well..