I Miss Ultimate Soldier!

[Karl Dak]

Hi All:

Over the weekend, I broke out some old Ultimate Soldier / 21st Century 1/18 scale figures. I really enjoyed their DAK collection, although they didn't offer many varieties. It got me thinking, what a great company! I really think they were the premier company for offering military scale collectibles. Their 1/18th offerings as well as 1/32 was non-comparable to any other plastic or die cast manufacturer, including Forces of Valor. I got into the game late, but have enjoyed purchasing on the 2nd hand market.

I really miss Ultimate Soldier!

Here's a shot of one of a few DAK figures, Joseph Dieffenbach:



I suppose we can just hope for more World Peacekeepers and GI Joe - that's about as good as it gets.

[tmanthegreat]

I have mixed opinions on how much exactly I "miss" 21c...

On one hand, the fulfilled a childhood dream to see "GI Joe" sized WWII aircraft, tanks, and figures - and made more than I could have ever hoped for during the run of the XD line from 2000-2008. Then they added to that their Vietnam lines and smattering of modern stuff in 1:18. Never mind the other scales they did well, like 1:32 and 1:6. I still remember that day I walked into a TRU store in the Sacramento, CA area on a road trip in October 2000 only to find a "giant" P-51D. They did some gutsy stuff that was - and still is - very cool

But 21c had major foibles, which is why we now miss them instead of enjoying new products:
-- They were a tiny company that greatly overestimated the appeal of their items. Think of all the stacks of discounted unsold items at Wal Marts across the country.
-- They over-diversified as evidenced by all the various scales they went into. They did 1:6, 1:18, and 1:32 scaled items generally well. They were not good at 1:48, 1:144, 1:10, etc. and those scales took away efforts that could have been put to better use...
-- 21c was never fiscally sound. They barely survived bankruptcy after loosing their contract with TRU in 2003 and were killed after more financial difficulties stemming from their Wal Mart dealings by 2008.
-- They never really catered to their collector base. I know there was the Fan Club and Area21 website, but there were few "club exclusives" little attention paid to the desires of the collector base. Heck, even the small retailers didn't get items that went to the big stores like certain armor pieces and figures.
-- 21c never really worked out their QC issues. This is major!! QC problems plagued them the entire way through the line. Their competition (BBI) had better QC, but they could never get it right. One should never have to comb through 5-10 models to find a good one, never!
-- They never had good distribution. While that may have had more to do with Wal Mart than 21c, it hurt both parties. I mean you'd have areas of the USA that always got new stuff and other places that never saw a thing, and places where there were palate loads of unsold items.
-- 21c made a bunch of hype that didn't pan out. Just think about the King Tiger, F-4 Phantom, and B-25....
-- Slow to improve in the end. Their items were getting better, but still suffered from the same QC defects that had always plagued things.
Had 21c simply stuck to what they did well, improved their QC, marketed their products as a collector item - not something to sell cheaply at every TRU and Wal Mart, and better-catered to their fan base, 21c just might have survived. After all, Dragon, Corgi, BBI, Hobby Master, etc all weathered the same economic storm that took 21c down...

21c may have started out making realistic 1:18, 1:32, and 1:6 items, but their competition quickly caught up and in some cases exceeded them. BBI's 1:18 efforts, especially in the WWII arena, are far superior to the 21c offerings in terms of detail and quality. In 1:32, the early FOV armor was hands-down better than most of the 21c items and were really models versus toys (FOV has since declined drastically in quality so that claim is no longer accurate). Corgi 1:32 aircraft are superior in nearly every aspect to the 21c examples as were even the BBI 1:32 planes. Just compare a Dragon 1:6 figure to a 21c one from the early 2000s and you will easily see who comes out on top...

The nice thing with 21c was that they cost less - but then we often got what we paid for.

So, a part of me does indeed miss the "Golden Age" but at the same time, I really don't. It was damn irritating when the same board members in the Midwest and south always seemed to find new XD items and those of us out west never could. It was also darn irritating waiting nearly 3 years for something only to have its QC suck (think the TBF Avenger). With the demise of 21c, I really think we have reached a greater level of stability and sustainability in the small scale militaria market.

Sorry for the rant

[Threetoughtrucks]

Ditto, and to the point.

21C low prices will be missed but the negatives will not be missed. How long did we wait for the Avenger? Two years? Constantly telling us "next quarter". The hype on the B-25 and the King Tiger in 1/18 hurt. Us guys into both 1/18 and 1/6 were anxious about a PZ III to do "battle" with the greatest 21C success, the M-5 Stuart, and what happened? Nothing but a few pictures. After all, who doesn't have a Stuart? And usually more than one... This statement does not apply to Pickel...... what did he have? 25?

What hurts me is that the end, 21C started to make some really nice 1/6 guys and weapons to compare with 21C's arch enemy, Dragon, but at that point, it was too late with not enough.

TTT

[Jnewboy]

I could never get over the insane amount of scales like you said Tman. I would look through the 1/32 or was it 1/35 stuff and say "that would be nice in 1/18" over and over and over. The 1/35 armor world is so complete and over done that when a new kit comes out the differance is a few bolts and some other little tweek. I am of course speaking about models and I understand that not every model collector has the time and/or skill to do thier own stuff but most do. Those of you who have seen a good model upclose knows that its oceans away from the factory made stuff and so why bother?

I never got the whole even smaller scale stuff. I know people collect those scales like 1/72 and smaller but they are already on the market and have been for years! Why did they think they were going to penetrate a market that is already dominated by makers like Corgi and DML whose product was vastly superior?? Maybe they thought that the collector would go to Walmart, wait in line and buy a less detailed version of what they want in order to save... what.. like $2 ?

The large stuff like 1/6 and 1/10 you hit on the head TTT. Plus also that stuff is to big for normal toy isles like at Wal-Mart and needs its own dedicated section like at a TRU. Who goes to Wal-Mart and buys a 1/10 Grant tank on a whim? Thats something you need to have delivered to your house when your wife is at work or asleep so it can be quickly hidden Can you imagine putting that on top the cart and saying "hey honey look at the great deal I got on this tank"
Thats one of the reasons why they still sat there after the clearance prices.

Bottom line is that they should have should have pioneered 1/18 scale and be known for that scale. when you heard "21st Century Toys" Your mind should automatically go to 1/18 scale. Highly diversified and better detailed they could have made a good run of it. So that by the time FOV and BBI tried to get a foot hold in the scale they could have been denied just as 21st was when they went into all the scales they did.

Bottom line, to much ambition without focus or the resources to carry it out. Over expanded themselves and were crushed. Sounds familiar somehow

Maybe the guy running 21st Century was a failed artist with a little mustache and a bad temper

[[CAT]CplSlade]

Yes, 1/48, 1/72 and 1/144 were insane markets to attempt to crack - maybe they were mesmerized by the success of those other companies and thought there was enough demand to warrant spreading out, when they really needed to consolidate and improve what they started with before doing that.

1/32, which is my scale, was a mixed bag because now that they are gone, no one else makes armor in 1/32 (except FOV, really) so the model kits on the market are out of scale with my planes.

Why are model planes still in 1/32 and not 1/35 like the armor kits?

[Karl Dak]

Wow! Some really interesting views regarding the history and quality of Ultimate Soldier. Having got into the 1/18 hobby way late, I missed the quality issues that you guys mentioned, or am not aware of them.

I also collect 1/32 scale and absolutely love the Ultimate Soldier "playsets". The figures and vehicles found in these box sets are really nice, in fact some of my favorite figures of their 1/32 scale collection.

Great discussion here and while I don't necessarily agree with all the comments, I respect the views from those of you experienced with Ultimate Soldier.

I would love to see any 1/18th scale military vehicle company come along and start offering the variety offered by Ultimate Soldier back in the day.

Interesting views!

[holensock]

I too have a love/hate relationship with 21C.
I was more into armor and figures and it was frustrating for me that their figures didn't fit well or not at all in their vehicles. Well, unless you took the figures legs off. And some of the plastic on their vehicles broke off too easy, especially if you tried to put a figure in the driver's seat. Usually the steering wheel busted off.
Their Marines had the BEST battle faces, but they couldn't sit. Wish too that they had shoulder articulation.
But ya know, even with what I've said here, I still buy 'em. I'd still buy them if they were in stores.
Wish Power Team would do WWII....

[tmanthegreat]

I was thinking about my post earlier today and still stand by all that I said, but I think 21c's strongest point actually was their armor and vehicles those in 1:18 scale at that (though some of their later 32x vehicles were getting very nice).

21c really made the widest variety of any of the other companies that produced 1:18 armor (BBI and Unimax Bravo Team) and their pieces were truly excellent. I know its not accurate, but the XD Tiger is an awesome vehicle and one of the few toy tanks to come with a complete interior - ever. The M-41, M-2 Bradley, all the German and US Halftracks are right up there with the Tiger. BBI made a great Sherman (really, better than the 21c version) but their modern armor was a bit more toyish. I won't even get into Bravo Team. 21c Hummers and smaller "jeeps" were well detailed and great items. It is a shame we never got the King Tiger and a shame 21c never followed along more with their modern 1:18 armor. Vehicles like the Bradley and M-48 are excellent - just think of what they could have done with an M-1 Abrams in 1:18.

That's not to say 21c didn't make any great planes - they certainly did - but armor was their most accurate and realistic part of the line nearly the entire way through.

[normandy]

I wish they were still around!
21st is why we're here, They my not have had a good business sense but they produced some great products.

Quality Control or the lack of, hurt them. One of the major problems was having production in china! Who owns what and who really calls the shots? Defects- What are you going to do? put back on the ship and send it back? Your production factory my not take returns.
As a model builder I fixed any QC issues I found on my XD, that is no excuse for 21st; but if your not making your product in your country your not in control.

Discounted, unsold items--- walmart was 21st's doom! walmart will tell you what and how much to produce if you want to sell in their stores. So now your producing at walmart levels and the the people in charge of distribution,
started out as shopping cart retrievers or greeters!
Don't need to go into which parts of the country got what, we all know about that....but that was a major ---- up on
their part not 21st's.

New product announcements......many companies do it, we're going to make (in this case a B-25) and it never
sees the light of day. Scaring off the competition, just wishful thinking or the realization the thing is to damn big.
The KT I'll just leave that alone......

The different scales always had me baffled. The only thing I can figure is while the money was coming in 21st wanted
to cover all the bases. Maybe not to smart, but had things improved for 21st they might have done very well.

Its easy to sit here and look back......but when it was happening, I'm sure Mr. Allen tried to grow his company the
way He thought was best. His love of history is evident in these product lines. He tried.................

Had 21st Century Toys never come along.....What would you have done with these past thirteen years?

[the_bird]

I miss them as well. I think their lower prices help keep the industry in check a bit.

[zonetoys]

Miss them? I don't miss them as much as I miss the HUNT!

Love the 1/18 scale. Not as large as the 1/6 (collected a lot) but bigger than 1/32 or 1/35 and these old eyes could see the detail! I bought everthing I could find, especially when WalMart discounted. I used to go into WM and TRU and KB Toys more than several times a week! Now, I never go into TRU anymore, KB is gone, and my wife has to drag me to WM for supplies.
I still have many unopened packs of 1/18 soldiers, boxes of vehicles, and many 1/6 WWII boxed soldiers that I bought, especially at the end. And yes I have more than one Stuart and DeSimone's Sherman Tanks. Can we say "Obsessive?" Not much to choose from nowadays!
Unlike TTT (who downsized) I just bought a new place in the country with a lot of room and a large shop/garage (for my son's and my cars). MOPAR friends refered to it as the "Garage Mahal." It has an upstairs that my son wants to set up like a private museum for his 1:1 military movie stuff and all the rest of the military toys! Still trying to figure out how to get the "WindTalkers" jeep upstairs!

[dragon53]

What are the chances of 21st Century/Allgo coming back?

[maritime96]

I'll throw my 2 cents into the conversation on 21st century as a person who is involved with the toy business here in NY. In my opinion they cut their own throats with the attitude they took toward the small stores who were buying a few cases of their stuff to sell in their stores. When 21st century toys started out they had a two nice sized rooms and a reception area during NYC toy fair in the old "Toy Building". Early on you could be a walk in industry buyer and they were more than happy to show you around, talk to you and work with you to get their product into the smaller toy and hobby shops. They did this for a number of years even when they were first into Toys R Us. Now as the years went on they were in Toys R Us and then Wal Mart, and the attitude to the little guys became "yeah well you guys may buy from us but NOT enough to match the big boys."

The place I worked for at the time were active buyers of 21st century stuff; so we would set up an appointment to meet with them at toy fair. One of my personal examples of their change of attitude was showing up for a scheduled meeting with 21st at toy fair only to be told "yeah well toys R Us showed up early and is in our buyers room now and for the next day and Wal Mart has all the afternoon slots. So if you guys want to wait we can see if we can sneak you in" We were a bit floored and said "but we have an appointment" and were told "we'll try and sneak you in" I sat with the two other buyers from the company I was with in their waiting room for 45 minutes, before we got up and walked out. As we left all the receptionist could say was "Sorry guys, but you understand the big guys get preference "

Fast forward a few years when Toys R us dropped them and Wal Mart started to jerk them around and low and behold they found our phone number again. But by then we were going strong with 12" Dragon (who ALWAYS made time for us at toy fair; heck they even took us out to lunch) and 21st just didn't have a place in our business plan anymore. Now I know a few other stores up here on Long Island that stayed with them / or did take them back, but said they ended up dropping them due to the frustration over the poor quality of their 12 " figures and 21st track record of showing items and setting release dates that never happened. I miss 21st as much as you guys and own lots of their 1:18 stuff. Heck I wish they were putting out a new tank or two and new figures every year. I just can't have a lot of sympathy for them, as I really feel their downfall was 100% of their own making.

[tmanthegreat]

maritime96, I think you just brought in a really interesting perspective there. I remember way back when (before their first near-death experience in 2003) that you could literally email the company to get info on products. Their customer service rep, Arlene, was awesome and even directed me to the original GPXD forum a decade ago. Talk about catering to the little guys!

But that's not the perception I had of the company in their later years - again, coming strictly from a consumer. Remember a few years ago when The Flying Mule (a well-established small retailer) got fed up with 21c and basically stopped carrying their products? Remember when BadCat used to get 21c exclusives, then didn't? Likely they all dealt with the same attitude your business did. My local Hobbytown USA store typically carried most of the major 21c aircraft and armor through to the 2006 time-frame (including some of the exclusive items), but their selection really dropped in the last couple of years. The last 21c items they ever had were sold on commission from someone's collection in 2011 (and I bought all I could!)

To provide a comparison, I can still email Hobby Master customer service in Hong Kong to request replacement parts for models (when necessary) and they take collector ideas and feedback seriously in creating new products. 21c did that for a while, then thought they were larger and better, and stopped. Too bad.

[maritime96]

tmanthegreat, I really think it was getting into Wal Mart that finally pushed them over the edge. It felt like they started to "believe their own press" once that happened. They were riding high on the quick easy money coming in from that account and figured the ride would never end. From that point on the whole "why bother ourselves with the little guys and the small money that comes in from them" attitude really took hold. The vibe became - why take the care and work it takes to continue to nurture multiple small accounts to make our money, when you can brainlessly make money by shoving whatever you make at whatever quality to Wal Mart and Toys R Us. Then as we all know, Toys R Us got freaked out over the "Nazi German" toys and dropped them, then Wal Mart did what they do best: pressed for cheaper and cheaper prices, clearanced the heck out of what they had bough, and then just decided to drop them as a supplier completely.

As soon as that happened 21st tried to find a way to survive and pay their bills. So they rolled the dice on the only revenue stream they thought they could still tap.. the small businesses. Basically they came crawling back to their old reliable ex girlfriend..( the small stores); acting like some kind of "rolling stone" player ex boyfriend who needed a place to crash and get back on their feet till the next best thing came along. (or Wal Mart would start selling their toys again) Problem was all the small businesses weren't willing to forgive and forget. One thing lead to another and now we can only speak of the "fallen flag" which is 21st century toys.

[tmanthegreat]

Yeah, I believe it totally. Its dangerous when one starts to believe their own propaganda... 21c billed themselves as the leader in 1:18 scale, which they were at the outset, but then other companies caught up to them with superior offerings. Unimax made better 1:32 tanks (at the time) and BBI really made more detailed 1:18 and 1:32 planes that never had any serious QC issues. When one starts to believe their own hubris, it can lead to problems, whether as a company or an individual or even a country. If I'm already the best, the most innovative, etc. why should I change what I'm doing? Just leads to problems on down the line.

[Apache26]

I've seen variations of this thread posted all over the 1/6 forums for years and it's always an interesting study in failure. I wouldn't be a grown man collecting toys were it not for 21st Century. In the late 1990's, they were the first to really revive the GI Joe genre in a way I had always dreamed about it as a kid - with serious attention to historical detail. I felt gypped growing up in the 1980's with 3 3/4 Joes and not the big guys whose gear you could assemble and customize.

The TUS line was clearly dedicated to detail but all too quickly surpassed. In the fight between grown men collecting dolls and kids who buy toys, there's a resolution that may never be resolved. Either you seek to please collectors or kids who simply need GI Joes, and you pay for one or the other. Marketing and distributing aside, 21st Century did its best to straddle the line and paid for it by over-promising and under-delivering at a cost that was worthy of a good toy, but too cheap for a collectible and too expensive for spare parts.

I remain struck with how disappointing it was to pick up a 12" figure whose product photo looked incredible, and then open the front flap to see a toy that bore no resemblance to the photo on the back. Anyone who remembers the difference between the khaki clad NVA soldier in the picture and the green uniformed Frankenstein NVA that was produced knows to what I am referring. It seems like all their 12" figures were like that. Either you market and sell a collectible toy, or you market and sell a toy, pure and simple. By the time Dragon surpassed TUS, 21st was finished in the 12" figure market for realistic collectibles under $60.

Since I generally disdained 1:18 until well after 21st went under, I didn't really have much interest in the quality control of 3 3/4" figures. Yet I did recognize the overall coolness of being able to buy a detailed and realistic historical combat vehicle in 1:18. It seems that 21st was the only manufacturer who had the balls to really delve deep into the history and details. Unfortunately, they again made inexplicable decisions. If you bought the 21st "Platoon" figures, you'll notice that the product photos are of detailed headsculpts placed on the USMC tank crewman bodies. The actual products, were, thankfully, nothing like this. Yet the paint colors and detailing were sometimes just bizarre. Likewise, why make a UH-1C in every conceivable configuration that won't sell (Air America UH-1C? WTF?) when you could sell a UH-1D/H for years and pair them with a figure product line?

Over promising and under-delivering...that was the death knell. I miss 21st because had they been smarter with their money, we might yet have seen truly innovative stuff like the F-4 or the M-551. Maybe someone will pick things up and get it right. I think that 21st was the only manufacturer truly invested in this stuff.