1/18 Pershing tank found (sort of)

Post by **aferguson** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:41 pm

Well, i found a psuedo 1/18 scale Pershing tank. It's labelled as 1/20 but is bigger than that but not quite 1/18. I guess about 1/19. Overall it looks pretty good, not great but good.

The only place i've been able to find it is on ebay from this store in australia that has $90 shipping. So that's clearly not an option.

I found the tank on Alibaba. It's made by Canton Toys of Hong Kong. I'm sure this thing can be had for a low price as it looks pretty cheap. It's part of a line of 1/20 tanks that are all built on the same chassis and barely look like what they are supposed to be, except this one, which is a decent Pershing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HUGE-NEW-1-20-S ... 35b69457ce

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/45205 ... rd_RC.html

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:37 pm

Interesting. This is the one I like -

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/44956 ... image.html

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:39 am

Looks like they've got some connection with Henglong... A lot of similarities between the Henglong Pershing tooling and that Alibaba Pershing pictured, right down to the "Snow Leopard" decals, stowage all in the same place. Then again, it is China

I'd be curious for someone to pick one up and see if its really 1/20-1/19 scale and not actually larger...

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:45 pm

If the shipping wasn't so steep I'd probably get an "Emulational M60" to see what it's like. But I just can't see paying more for shipping than for the actual item.

EnemyAce · Post by **EnemyAce** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:16 pm

That's really not bad at all.

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:08 pm

Is someone going to make a dio of that famous tank battle in WW2 with the Panther taking out the Sherman and a Pershing taking out the Panther? All in 1/18?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBI9d0-IfEM

Watch the whole thing. Amazing stuff.

TTT

Post by **aferguson** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:02 am

some interesting things in that video. You can actually see the third shell hitting the panther, as it's caught on film. Interesting to note that really not a lot happens when the shell impacts. A bit of smoke and flash but nothing else. Contrast that with hollywood style films where tanks get hit and there is a big external explosion. In reality, since the shell is penetrating the armour, there wouldnt be much of an external explosion, at least not upon impact. There could be a subsequent explosion if ammo explodes. But in the case of the Panther, just a barely noticable impact, then a couple of seconds later the fire inside can be seen to intensify.

You can actually see the holes where the Panther has been penetrated, due to the fire insde the tank.

Why the panther was positioned the way it was i don't understand. It had its side to the enemy, presenting a larger target and its thinner side armour. Maybe they were out of fuel and couldn't move the tank? An inexperienced crew? Or perhaps they were caught by surprise by the Pershing, expecting any other US armour to be approaching from their front.

The scene of the US tank commander bailing out of his sherman with half a leg missing is really something.

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:17 pm

Hollywierd effects aside. A armor piercing shell impacts against the armor with minimum effect on the outside as the interior of the exploding shell pierces the armor and sprays the interior of the tank with shrapnel. The hope is to set off fuel or explode the ammo. A hit tank will burn for days while appearing almost intact. Of course, a shell like a 88mm against a light tank can involve a whole new effect.

Any shell, hand grenade etc., that explodes with shrapnel will only produce a puff of smoke and some noise. The Hollywierd special effects dept goes nuts with make believe effects.

The first time I was on a hand grenade range, I was amazed at the little effect of a non hollywierd explosion. Of course, massive damage can still result from shrapnel. The day before I first went to that range, a new recruit, in getting ready to throw, pulled the pin and accidentally released the firing lever just enough to start the timer. Result, he lost his head and killed his instructor. Real life is messy.

Back to the Cologne battle, the Panther may have been set to cover a number of street converging on the cathedral.

Amazing stuff to see, especially when you know most of the guys you see were dead. Also notice the standard helmets worn by the Pershing crew, instead of the normal tanker soft helmets.

TTT

gburch · Post by **gburch** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:29 am

An amazing piece of film and really an incredible job of piecing together the action on a second-by-second basis. It's rare to see this level of detail.

And yes . . . really heart-rending to see especially the Sherman commander and know you're watching some of the last minutes of his life.

It really gives a new perspective on those last few insane weeks of the war -- when any rational person would know that all was lost for the Germans, but they fought on . . .

Makes me think of that line from the end of Band of Brothers: "What were you THINKING?"

Post by **aferguson** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:21 pm

i found sever sellers on ebay uk that are selling this tank. Unfortunately none ship to north america. However, here's a pic of one in the box.

Dimension quotes are varying quite a bit, so i don't know who to trust. As near as i can tell, it's about 1/19.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-20-Remote-C ... 3cbfd68639

flayrah · Post by **flayrah** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:02 am

The video is powerful.

gburch · Post by **gburch** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:57 am

aferguson wrote:i found sever sellers on ebay uk that are selling this tank. Unfortunately none ship to north america. However, here's a pic of one in the box.

Dimension quotes are varying quite a bit, so i don't know who to trust. As near as i can tell, it's about 1/19.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-20-Remote-C ... 3cbfd68639

I just don't get it . . . why in the world would someone go to all the trouble of making the molds and selling something like this and get the scale wrong . . . like the F-16 . . . arrrrgggghhh!

Post by **aferguson** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:42 am

huh? First off, it's just my guess that it's 1/19 and not 1/20. It may be 1/20, but i doubt it. These cheap chinese tanks, as well as other toys made in china, are often quoted with wrong scales. Sometimes they're not even close.

This series of tanks are all built on the same chassis, with different upper bodies and turrets stuck on them. Most of them look like crap, but it just so happens the chassis they used for all these different tanks is the Pershing chassis and they did a reasonable job on the Pershing (they call it snow leopard). I doubt any of the tanks in this series are really 1/20, most are probably under 1/20 and i think the Pershing is a bit over 1/20, which is good for us since it makes it closer to 1/18. I can live with a 1/19 Pershing, if that is what it does indeed turn out to scale out to.

CanberraPaul · Post by **CanberraPaul** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:10 pm

What are the inaccuracies with this tank exactly?

Post by **aferguson** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:23 pm

nothing major. Slight details are a bit off. The turret shape is a bit too sharp sided and the hull is not quite wide enough for its length, as far as i can see. But overall it's pretty good. Miles better than the other crappy tanks in this line, all of which use the Pershing chassis. The biggest flaw is probably that it's a bit underscale....exactly how much is hard to tell but i still think it's around 1/19.

CanberraPaul · Post by **CanberraPaul** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:49 pm

I just went and bought one as shipping for me is cheap here in Aus. I have always wanted a Pershing, 1/19 will do. I don't have the room for it at the moment so it will live under my bed, all my other stuff is on display - I hate leaving models in boxes!!! Its good my wife loves them too as they are all over our bedroom in little dio's. I would like to get Jnewboy (Jon) to paint and detail it properly for me but he will be too busy.

Post by **aferguson** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:53 pm

If you wouldn't mind giving it a measure before tucking it away, i'd be much obliged. Hull length and width would be all that's needed.

CanberraPaul · Post by **CanberraPaul** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:05 pm

Aferg I will certainly do that for you.

Post by **aferguson** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:08 pm

thanks mate. Looking forward to hearing what you think of it....i consider this a pretty lucky find.

CanberraPaul · Post by **CanberraPaul** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:19 pm

Aferg I will get you images of it also - when I get a camera. As I said when I joined this forum I would like to get everyone images of my models especially Jon's sfuff which looks better in person than with his shots with the blue backgrounds.

Post by **aferguson** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:30 pm

did tank shells have tracer rounds? I was rewatching the pershing/panther video and realized that you can see the shell hitting the panther because it's a tracer. I've never heard of that. What's the point?

B17Fortress · Post by **B17Fortress** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:03 pm

"It makes pretty pictures. Scares the hell outta the krauts!" -Oddball

Other than that I would have to say lining up a shot or designating a location for an artilley strike.

normandy · Post by **normandy** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:49 am

aferguson wrote:did tank shells have tracer rounds? I was rewatching the pershing/panther video and realized that you can see the shell hitting the panther because it's a tracer. I've never heard of that. What's the point?

It looks like they did use tracer rounds.... http://www.inert-ord.net/usa03a/usa5/75mm/index.html

Post by **aferguson** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:26 am

hm interesting. You learn something everyday. Thanks Normandy.

I still don't see the point of a tracer though. With machineguns it makes sense as you can adjust your aim as you fire so as to be able to strike the target. With single shot shells you know if you hit the target or not and by the time you adjust your aim, the aiming point itself has probably changed anyway.

Anyone know what colour US army tracer rounds typically were?

normandy · Post by **normandy** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:45 am

Haven't found anything on the color of the tracer yet.
Good still shot from the film showing second tracer round about to hit....

Here is link from the above pic. http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... -tank-duel
Go to page two for more still shots.

Small Scale Military Headquarters

1/18 Pershing tank found (sort of)

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