Yellow 23 109 on ebay.

[Barbarian333]

http://cgi.ebay.com/21st-Century-Toys-O ... 3f05754999

Is this the real deal?

[flyboy_fx]

Hard to say.
Need better pics.
Like a close up of the tail decal.
I would say yea it is but im not sure.

[Barbarian333]

I would guess it's the real thing, since it has the cross and it seems obvious the seller isn't trying to bring big money. He has other listings with same starting price.

[Buckyroo]

Didn't the last one go for just north of $1,800.00?

[456THBG]

Love the paint scheme...Wish 21st would have produced it for the general market...It'll be fun to watch & see what it goes for!

[gliderdwm]

didn't military toy shop sell identical repaint and sell it in same early issue 109e box.

[pickelhaube]

didn't military toy shop sell identical repaint and sell it in same early issue 109e box.

Yup

This could be one of them

[normandy]

I like the paint scheme!! but at $570.

[Barbarian333]

Sold for 1,064.00

[MG-42]

* How pathetic. Just for bragging rights ? ... whatever the case may be , strictly psychological I presume.
You can have a relative simple custom paint job done , for a fraction of the price.


- Mitch

[Barbarian333]

I must admit, i did bid on this plane. I stoped at $560.00. I figured it would be a good deal at that price, knowing what these have gone for in the past. I also knew i wasn't gonna get it for that price, but it was worth a try. I would have re-sold it anyway.

[snake]

* How pathetic. Just for bragging rights ? ... whatever the case may be , strictly psychological I presume.
You can have a relative simple custom paint job done , for a fraction of the price.


- Mitch

I agree.

But maybe the guy has a ton of money, and this is no big deal to him. As much as a good bottle of wine.

But for us working "joes", that is a lot to spend on a 1/18 Me109. And with no documentation, who is to say it is not simply a custom, posing as the real thing.

[Jnewboy]

FYI I will be happy to make that "rare 109" for anyone here, Plus Ill charge Less!!!! Ill even include the box!!

[AMERICAN_GRENADIER]

die hard collectors will always pony up the cash to add to thier collection. i recently met a collector who has are you ready over 5 thousand diecast planes. i didnt believe him at first then he sent me pictures. truley unbelievable all scales and all displayed they fill his basement. he doesnt want to think about the money he has spent

[Dauntless]

So, was this the real deal or as gliderdwm mentioned one of the MTS repaints?
The box is the first release and it doesn't look pristine.
The seller makes no claims as to authenticity either and almost an odd lack of info in the description.
How can you tell which one it is?

Maybe I should just not ask these questions. I think I've bought some 1:32 planes from this guy and he's cool.
Like I could bid on one of these anyways.

[Buckyroo]

So, was this the real deal or as gliderdwm mentioned one of the MTS repaints?
The box is the first release and it doesn't look pristine.
The seller makes no claims as to authenticity either and almost an odd lack of info in the description.
How can you tell which one it is?

Maybe I should just not ask these questions. I think I've bought some 1:32 planes from this guy and he's cool.
Like I could bid on one of these anyways.

the one thing I noticed is that the one for sale had weathering/exhaust detailing, which would be in line with the real deal. I don't thing MTS had that, but their picture is gone now so there is nothing to compare.

[Dauntless]

It's got the weathering so...

[Buckyroo]

It's got the weathering so...

Mine was just an observation in a comparison to the MTS birds not a statement declaring originallity. Just food for thought or discussion.

[gliderdwm]

There are limits for most of us here and these rare prototpypes are way over authentic or not. I have the regualar issue desert 109E and all the other ones except for nightfighter version. Thats enough for me. I would rather shell out big bucks for a A-10.
The JSI 109e never materialized. Maybe one day

[NWarty]

The JSI 109e never materialized. Maybe one day

It'll be done in Spinach colors though, keeping it consistent with the Spot/SquiggleCat

[Barbarian333]

I did ask the seller if this was the actual prototype. Seller said he had it for aprox. 10 yrs and as far as he knew it was not any kind of reprodution.

[vmf214]

Well I know a little about these paint masters as I own the one that got away from 21st back in 2002-03 timeframe via their fanclub. For those that don't know, back then they had an actual functional fanclub that members could order stuff from to include alleged "exclusives" ie the spinach 109 & a piece of armor can't remember which, a Panther I think. Anyway a guy ordered the spinach 109 and what he got in the mail was a desert paint master scheme. He called them, they gave him the scoop on it, very much wanted it back, and he naturally opted to keep it. Awhile later I bought it from him. Supposedly there were only 3 and the 21st employee I spoke to in 2005 corroborated this, however, now I understand from a reliable source there were actually 5. I have studied it thoroughly and made ample notes about it. There are many things about it that unless you actually knew from seeing one, would never know. I never published this info via any type of forum simply to keep unscrupulous hacks from drumming up one and deceiving someone by calling it authentic. Hats off to PWP for being honest in purporting theirs as repros although I don't agree with doing it, just screws with the value of the real deal by making people leary of what is and what isn't authentic, just my personal opinion mind you. I can tell you though just from the pictures on the MTS site they were obviously not the same. But again, unless you saw one up close you wouldn't know it. This from talking to other owners of 2 other authentic ones and comparing notes.

I can safely say though, if there were infact 5 of these and not just 3, and the recent one was in fact authentic, then they are all accounted for. Not to say the current owners won't sell them, but I know where 4 of them are and they ain't going anywhere anytime soon. If there are in fact 5, 4 have already been sold on ebay, bought mine in 2005, one sold in late 2009, another in mid 2010, and this one, plus there is the one 21st gave tko. That'd be 5 assuming the recent one on ebay is authentic. But remember, often times it's what a seller may leave out that incinuates to an authentic nature. The ole play dumb ploy which alot of times leads potential bidders to believe it has to be real coz the seller isn't spilling the beans about it. Any future ebay listings of these should be held in the highest scrutiny. I can safely say 3 of them are going nowhere, can't speak for the other 2.


Never talked to Zach about his or the seller of the current one so can't confirm numbers 4 & 5 are the same as the first 3 but I would imagine they likely are.

I don't know if this recent one is authentic based on the poor quality pic. I can guarantee mine is & that it was the first one that escaped from 21st (their words), the one JL has is, and the one that brought $900 several months ago is also authentic. The latter two were sold on ebay via 21st CT utilizing ebay userid's that would never clue someone in that it was actually 21st CT. Jim gave Zach his so that's a no brainer.

To compare a factory model such as this to custom work is apples and oranges. Collectors don't buy or want this stuff for the scheme, which btw is quite incorrect for an E, but because it is what it is, a factory paint master example that was never released via mass retail. This is why they bring big bucks, has nothing to do with level of detail etc etc. Many still just don't get this. Sorry but no, these particular planes aren't just another 21st 109. That's why things like this are collector's items and it's why there are collectors and it's why they bring the big bucks.

As far as "one of a kind" customs, who's to say any particular custom item is a "one of a kind"? Just coz a repaint hasn't surfaced on ebay don't make it one of a kind when the first one does show up there. That japanese 109 repaint that has been listed oodles of times as a "one of a kind" for example is chocked full of errors coz they used an incorrect profile from j-airplanes website instead of actual photographs & didn't even get that right. It however, isn't a "one of a kind"...I can guarantee.

Now back to regular programming.

[snake]

Thanks for that informative, and insightful post, vmf214.

[Jnewboy]

I totally understand VFM, I get why its so valuble if it is authintic, First runs or masters of almost anything are usually coveted. What I was trying to get across in my post was like you said it is only for its super low production run not its scheme of detail. So that suggests that it is purely an investment purchase. So if it is an investment purchase WTF are they paying upwards of $1000 for it? do they think it will be worth $10,000???? it wont, it will never be worth any more than what it is worth now, because it is what it is and the company folded, the collectors that are around now are all there are and there wont be any new ones. I doubt that there are many people buying up 1/18 stuff on ebay that just happened to type 1/18 one day into the search bar, they are like me and allot of us, it started by picking up a Fw-190d or Mustang at Walmart years ago.

All Im trying to say is if you do buy something purely as an investment you want to buy it low and know you can sell it high latter. Buying an ugly unauthentic model you never intend on displaying or even opening for that much money in the hopes it will be worth alittle more in the future is well for lack of a better word kinda dumb, buy gold, buy guns, raise alpacas, there's lots of better ways to make money.

I think whoever bought it really just bought it to say they have it which is kinda sad considering outside of this forum pretty much everyone eles in the world could give a rats ass.

PS I agree about the Jap 109E, actually I have only seen one photo of the 109s they were sent for trials and it was an F model in the pic.

[vmf214]

Totally disagree. I didn't buy mine for bragging rights and I know the 2 other guys that own one and they didn't buy them for bragging rights either. In fact, I had mine for 4 years before I told anyone I had it because I simply didn't want bugged about it. I truly didn't give a "rats ass" who knew I had it, here or anywhere else. We are collectors pure and simple, and could care less who knows what we have. We don't buy stuff just to sell it high later. I'm sure concerning XD, all the rare stuff that has popped on ebay these last few years did draw some bidders that hoped they could get the item cheap and turn a profit on it later, but in the end, a collector is the one that ended up with it. Mother nature dictates these types of items will increase in price. The world of 1/18 hasn't stopped drumming up new interest and new collectors just because 21st is gone or because AT is gone or because JSI and Bbi are catatonic. Quite the contrary, alot of new collectors are entering the scene everyday, the prices on ebay prove this. Countless new members that join these types of forums prove this, especially with all the posts of "wish I would've discovered the hobby sooner or started buying the stuff sooner..." coz it's higher than a cat's back now. I'm quite sure that this forum or any other similar forum for that matter represents a very small fraction of the collecting community. Some guys seem to think only forum members buy this stuff, weird. There is not a forum out there that will make or break a company. The stuff hasn't dried up completely, never will & it'll be bought and sold from now till the end of time, just like anything else. How does it make someone "dumb" because they want what they want and will pay to get it? So if someone bought something you drummed up and paid what many of us would consider way too much, they'd be "dumb" too? I doubt you would think so in that case. In fact calling someone dumb because they collect and aren't afraid to pay for their collectibles is kinda insulting. But fortunately we don't ask for a concensus on what we should spend for what we want. What does seem to be the concensus here though & I've read it several upon several times is anyone with disposable income & can afford to pay the high prices are dumb, stupid, moronic, etc etc. People assume the kids are starving so daddy can have the pretty toy. Maybe, maybe not. To me that's where a "WTF" applies. The guys that say tripe like that jealous or what? Kinda childish. I can't afford a Lambourgini but I don't consider the guys that can dumb or stupid. Probably could if I sold my airplane and gun collection lol.

I've been collecting toy airplanes and armor since the early 70's, all scales, diecast, plastic, and am a rabid vintage kit collector as well. I can assure you your assumptions that no one will be around to buy the stuff are quite incorrect. Ebay isn't the only venue for this type of stuff believe it or not, several networks are still around that have been around way before ebay or even the internet that alot of us buy, sell, and trade thru. Stating that what the guys paid for their stuff now is all it will ever be worth is total hogwash. Stating that the collectors that are around now are all that there will ever be is also total hogwash. How can you possibally justify that or even prove it? You can't. Quite the contrary, the fact that 21st is gone for example, causes inflation of their products, not deflation. A simple example (and I can give several) relating to this falsehood you speak is the smaller diecast stuff from the 60's & 70's. Most of the companies that made the stuff are long gone, have been for 20-30 years but guess what, new collectors rear their heads everyday to gobble up as much of it as they can. The internet invents collectors of just about anything because it makes items available to everyone that otherwise would never know the items ever existed. You are assuming everyone buys stuff just to make a killing later. Collectors "collect" for the sake of collecting & because they enjoy the items they collect, their (our) goal is not to raise the gold standard.

Bottom line no one can see the future concerning any collectibles' value potential. Will the desert 109's be worth a hundred bucks 10 years from now? Kinda doubt it. Will they be worth more than a grand? Based on several decades of collecting items just like this, I can safely guarantee it based on actual experience, not hearsay or assumptions.

As far as the economy goes, yeah that affects what risks manufacturer's will take to create something new, but has little to no affect on what a collector is willing to pay for something that is already out there. Collecting is often an obsession and an addiction as well. Collectors will always find a way to get their fix, regardless of the current economic climate. Ebay has proven this time and again all thru the current recession. And I can guarantee with absolute certainty it isn't just the wealthy buying stuff. Hell most collectors are rich in goods, poor in money. Obvious as to why. Hasn't affected the collectible car market, firearms market, or even the airsoft market (things I have personal experience with). 1/18 is no different.

Concerning the Japanese 109, they were sent E's in 1941, not F's. There are 3 common pics easily found on the internet but that is where people often go astray in their assumptions because it seems the internet makes people forget about books. There's tons of info in books that will never be on the internet to include photo's. Have quite a few photo's of the IJA eval 109's in my collection & they ain't F's.

Soapboxy? Sure. But I am speaking from experience and not from assumption.