Maybe 21st should re-work the crap they call a Tiger I, before releasing a completely new vehicle.
I don't know why so many people think this 21st Tiger is so good. It's full of inaccuracies, it's hard to call it a Tiger. Their Panther is a much better model/toy, though not many mention it.
A King Tiger is a possibility, seeing so many people bought the FOV KT for $500 or more, despite the fact that it's more toyish than the 21st Sherman.
21st could do a Firely, I don't know why they haven't even tried. With very little work, their current Sherman could easily converted to a Firefly.
I just wish 21st would give more attention to armor the way they give attention to their planes.
My guess is its an Abrams. They've been hinting about an Abrams for a long time, whether it's 1/18 or 1/9th. I'd like a Chally 2 or a Merkava Mk. IV, but not likely.
Any Guese of what the new 1/18th XD armor will be ?
-
Threetoughtrucks
- Officer - Brigadier General
- Posts: 5405
- Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 9:46 am
- Location: SOUTH JOISEY
- Contact:
Guys:
Remember, we are collectiong TOYS, whatever you call it, it is not a scale model of the real thing. 21C makes TOYS for the general public.
We are fringe collectors of a TOY line.
A Brit tank would be great for us, any armored car would be great for us.
But 21C is not going to produce any vehicle the general toy buying public would not recognize and buy for their kid.
Where are our toys sold?.... by design by 21C?....the toy aisles in Wallyworld, the store we love to hate for their distribution failures (for us), or the store we just plain hate. They are the future for consumer sales, whether we like it or not.
21C will most likely produce something with instant recognation, like the Abrams. Like the Hummer, the Jeep. That's where the smart money is. Even the WW2 vehicles, the Tiger, Panther, T-34 or Sherman, most of the public see, and say.....Yea, that's a tank. Show them a Cromwell, even a Mosquito and they say Wha??????
What we like to see will not be produced in large numbers. We are better off pushing for a Legend series of vehicles for the Jadpanther's, the Cromwell, the M-16 half-track, the M-26, etc. etc. We all have our favorites, the most we can hope for are limited production runs. These items will get expensive very quickly, but then again, we are not collecting toys? are we.
Look at what a WSC in 1/6 is now going for. There was a vehicle sold in TRU for what?? a buck & a half, and now you can still find them NIB but the prices run up to and over $400. 
TTT
Remember, we are collectiong TOYS, whatever you call it, it is not a scale model of the real thing. 21C makes TOYS for the general public.
We are fringe collectors of a TOY line.
A Brit tank would be great for us, any armored car would be great for us.
But 21C is not going to produce any vehicle the general toy buying public would not recognize and buy for their kid.
Where are our toys sold?.... by design by 21C?....the toy aisles in Wallyworld, the store we love to hate for their distribution failures (for us), or the store we just plain hate. They are the future for consumer sales, whether we like it or not.
21C will most likely produce something with instant recognation, like the Abrams. Like the Hummer, the Jeep. That's where the smart money is. Even the WW2 vehicles, the Tiger, Panther, T-34 or Sherman, most of the public see, and say.....Yea, that's a tank. Show them a Cromwell, even a Mosquito and they say Wha??????
What we like to see will not be produced in large numbers. We are better off pushing for a Legend series of vehicles for the Jadpanther's, the Cromwell, the M-16 half-track, the M-26, etc. etc. We all have our favorites, the most we can hope for are limited production runs. These items will get expensive very quickly, but then again, we are not collecting toys? are we.
Look at what a WSC in 1/6 is now going for. There was a vehicle sold in TRU for what?? a buck & a half, and now you can still find them NIB but the prices run up to and over $400. TTT
Sometimes I am the windshield, sometimes, I am the bug.
Re: .
Umm...the comment about the Tiger I is pretty misguided. If you think it is a Toy then it is pretty damn amazing (I won't go into the "playability" as we all know it by now....). If you see it as a model then you should be willing to work with it - like any other model kit that has some inaccuracies. Those smoke dischargers come off real easy....GooglyDoogly wrote:Maybe 21st should re-work the crap they call a Tiger I, before releasing a completely new vehicle.
I don't know why so many people think this 21st Tiger is so good. It's full of inaccuracies, it's hard to call it a Tiger. Their Panther is a much better model/toy, though not many mention it.
We could only hope that vehicles going forward are as good as the Tiger - or the Panther for that matter as it too is very nice. If you weren't happy with the Tiger for $40 then you need a new hobby....
Now, I too say the new armor will be a King Tiger and I'm psyched. Repaint potential, plenty of room for a full interior, and at a fraction of the cost of the FOV version. Bring it on.
-
GooglyDoogly
- Officer - Lt. Colonel
- Posts: 1083
- Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:59 pm
.
I'm not comparing the 21st Tiger to a detailed model, I'm comparing it to other armor made by 21st, like the Panther, which is great, with very little mistakes.
If you follow your reasoning that we should accept the inaccuracies of the Tiger because its a toy, then how come that attitude is not so prevalent in 1/18th planes. You should tell 21st not to bother with re-tooling their P-51, since their old one is good enough as a toy, and don't buy the BBI P-51 if you have the old 21st's.
Also, people shouldn't blast the BBI Abrams for its inaccuracies, because its a toy right? I have often wondered why the BBI Abrams is so maligned but the 21st Tiger is always defended, when both have serious issues.
This reminds me of the old arguments about 21st 1/6th figures. Alot of people defended 21st for making substandard figure sets while Dragon, BBI, and other companies constantly improved their products. What's the result? 21st still have figures that have velcros for buckles, plastic mold breadbags and bandoleers, while their competitors have working buckles, cloth pouches etc. That's why aside from 1/6th vehicles, 21st is dead on the 1/6 market.
Look how far the detailing has gone in 21st 1/18th planes. That's because we consumers demanded it, didn't give excuses that they're just toys, (not anymore), so 21st and BBi raised the bar and all of us benefited.
Another point, 21st seems to be expanding their market, with the release of Europe-exclusive releases. It couldn't hurt them to make armor that's very popular in Europe. The Challenger or Leopard are very popular around the world, and they might sell very well there, and even here in the U.S.
But like I said, it's probably going to be that 1/9th RC Abrams they had on their catalogue.
If you follow your reasoning that we should accept the inaccuracies of the Tiger because its a toy, then how come that attitude is not so prevalent in 1/18th planes. You should tell 21st not to bother with re-tooling their P-51, since their old one is good enough as a toy, and don't buy the BBI P-51 if you have the old 21st's.
Also, people shouldn't blast the BBI Abrams for its inaccuracies, because its a toy right? I have often wondered why the BBI Abrams is so maligned but the 21st Tiger is always defended, when both have serious issues.
This reminds me of the old arguments about 21st 1/6th figures. Alot of people defended 21st for making substandard figure sets while Dragon, BBI, and other companies constantly improved their products. What's the result? 21st still have figures that have velcros for buckles, plastic mold breadbags and bandoleers, while their competitors have working buckles, cloth pouches etc. That's why aside from 1/6th vehicles, 21st is dead on the 1/6 market.
Look how far the detailing has gone in 21st 1/18th planes. That's because we consumers demanded it, didn't give excuses that they're just toys, (not anymore), so 21st and BBi raised the bar and all of us benefited.
Another point, 21st seems to be expanding their market, with the release of Europe-exclusive releases. It couldn't hurt them to make armor that's very popular in Europe. The Challenger or Leopard are very popular around the world, and they might sell very well there, and even here in the U.S.
But like I said, it's probably going to be that 1/9th RC Abrams they had on their catalogue.
Hey, hey...
Take it easy....I'll tell you why....
The Abrams didn't have room to put the figures in....it didn't even have opening hatches....it retailed at $50 and they all came with a backwards (inside out) commander's hatch IIRC. While the Tiger had removable tow cables the M1 didn't....matter of fact the Tiger had a number of removable tools. Of course, the Tiger had a FULL INTERIOR ...but that's no thing 
.....shiny plastic compared to a real paint job, with painted tools and stowage....engine access, extra track links that were removable...C'mon, be fair... 
The Abrams didn't have room to put the figures in....it didn't even have opening hatches....it retailed at $50 and they all came with a backwards (inside out) commander's hatch IIRC. While the Tiger had removable tow cables the M1 didn't....matter of fact the Tiger had a number of removable tools. Of course, the Tiger had a FULL INTERIOR
...but that's no thing .....shiny plastic compared to a real paint job, with painted tools and stowage....engine access, extra track links that were removable...C'mon, be fair... -
luftpanzer
- Officer - Brigadier General
- Posts: 1528
- Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:55 pm
- Location: Randolph New Jersey
- Contact:
-
GooglyDoogly
- Officer - Lt. Colonel
- Posts: 1083
- Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:59 pm
.
Yeah, I guess I'm a bit miffed at 21st at botching my favorite tank. After purchasing their Panther, I was really looking forward to their Tiger, then... The same thing with the BBI Abrams. That's why I didn't bother collecting 1/18 modern armor because I couldn't stand that Abrams.
The 21st Tiger will always be a mystery to me. They chose to combine initial, early, mid, late, and final production features on a single Tiger (not to mention getting the dimensions wrong). Imagine them doing that on a 1/18th plane, and all of us would be crying foul as well. Imagine a P-47 Razorback with a bubbletop canopy.
The one saving grace of the Tiger is that it has interior....but they even mess that up. It's not hard to get reference photos of a Tiger's interior. Especially with the completion of the Bovington Tiger. 21st instead chose the cheap way out and put an inaccurate, wrong, simplified interior on their Tiger. The FOV King Tiger is guilty of that as well. Why bother displaying that "full interior" if the only people who would be impressed by it are those who think that the King Tiger is one of the tanks that fought in the Gulf War.
A new piece of armor...
Well if I could have just one it would be a t-34. And forget accuracy, I'd settle for a bright pink interior with a fur steering mechanism, vodka trays and mood lights.
Hmmn, even if 21st made a t-34 they probably wouldn't make as many as the soviets did real ones!
I wish 21st would include a full crew with this tank. It would increase costs though.
Ready and waiting with outstetched wallet.
Well if I could have just one it would be a t-34. And forget accuracy, I'd settle for a bright pink interior with a fur steering mechanism, vodka trays and mood lights.
Hmmn, even if 21st made a t-34 they probably wouldn't make as many as the soviets did real ones!
I wish 21st would include a full crew with this tank. It would increase costs though.
Ready and waiting with outstetched wallet.
-
Threetoughtrucks
- Officer - Brigadier General
- Posts: 5405
- Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 9:46 am
- Location: SOUTH JOISEY
- Contact:
-
Jericoeagle1
- Officer - Major
- Posts: 978
- Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:15 pm
- Location: Yelm, Washington
-
kimtheredxd
- Officer - Captain
- Posts: 836
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:19 am
- Location: WA State
tank girl tank
I think it was based on a M5 Stuart
-
HardenSteel
- Sergeant
- Posts: 230
- Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:47 pm
- Location: Victoria, BC
-
Morian Miner
- Officer - Brigadier General
- Posts: 1739
- Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 7:27 am
- Location: 1, USA, AZ, Vail
-
markecho
- Sergeant
- Posts: 178
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:11 am
- Location: 1, US, CA, Tustin-Orange County
- Contact:
my guess
heh! I hate to speculate because I don't want to get dissapointed...BUT..
I think some of the board members here mentioned it might have to be high profile..which is true in a marketing sense..so a M1 would be logical. BUT seems like they only have 2 repaint options - desert and camo
Since 21st said it was a new mold then anything sherman or panther "close" like a firefly or a much wanted Jagd would be out. A Stug would be cool too but wouldn't they base that on the Panzer IV mold?
Did someone mention a Chaffee yet - although not high profile it might be a possiblity..but not high on the collectors "wishes".
well those are my quick thoughts.
I was shopping at a local hobby shop and looked at some CanDo Dragon armor and (im sure their scale is correct) didn't realized it until i compared the two..that the M1 is actually longer than the King tiger. I thought the King tiger was bigger..I know it is taller. So packaging shouldn't be an issue since bbi did it (or was their's a tad off scale on the small side?)
Anyhow....so my guess would be M1 followed closely by King tiger...and EITHER would be a welcome addition to us armor fans!!!
Just wish they could roll out that armor faster ...what has it been a year or two between tanks??
I think some of the board members here mentioned it might have to be high profile..which is true in a marketing sense..so a M1 would be logical. BUT seems like they only have 2 repaint options - desert and camo
Since 21st said it was a new mold then anything sherman or panther "close" like a firefly or a much wanted Jagd would be out. A Stug would be cool too but wouldn't they base that on the Panzer IV mold?
Did someone mention a Chaffee yet - although not high profile it might be a possiblity..but not high on the collectors "wishes".
well those are my quick thoughts.
I was shopping at a local hobby shop and looked at some CanDo Dragon armor and (im sure their scale is correct) didn't realized it until i compared the two..that the M1 is actually longer than the King tiger. I thought the King tiger was bigger..I know it is taller. So packaging shouldn't be an issue since bbi did it (or was their's a tad off scale on the small side?)
Anyhow....so my guess would be M1 followed closely by King tiger...and EITHER would be a welcome addition to us armor fans!!!
Just wish they could roll out that armor faster
...what has it been a year or two between tanks??It is the dang toy companies that have sometimes made me want to stop collecting toys!!!
-
tmanthegreat
- Officer - Brigadier General
- Posts: 11239
- Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 7:38 pm
- Location: Central California
21c mentioned a long while ago - I'm talking like in 2003 - of the possibility of doing an M1 Abrams. BBI's effort (and aparent lack of sales evidenced by how those tanks were discounted at many TRUs) may have stalled that effort. Then again, an M1 with the detail level of the Tiger or even the M2 Bradley would be spectacular!
Then again, there's just too many cool armor possibilities to choose from (look at all the 32x vehicles) so I'll hold off on any further speculation until the eventual 21c announcement.
Then again, there's just too many cool armor possibilities to choose from (look at all the 32x vehicles) so I'll hold off on any further speculation until the eventual 21c announcement.