JSI SU-27 / J-11

[dragon53]

From Badcat's blog:

" JSI 1:18 Su-27 the Reason Behind the Madness



I walked home from the warehouse recently and Maria was already preparing supper when I walked through the door. "Porkchops?", I said disappointedly. "Why pork chops? You know I don't like pork chops."

Maria replied, "I like pork chops, that's why. Make yourself some Top Ramen if you won't eat them."

----------

One of my favorite subjects of "illogical" thinking is the planned choice of the 1:18 scale Su-27 . Figuring a USA market of about 50, as in five - zero, and an estimated breakeven point of 20K units, this airplane seemed to me to make about as much sense as selling Twister to convalescent homes. But after a phone conversation today with a distributor, I may have to rethink my views.

Our friends in China may well believe the 1:18 scale airplane market in the USA to be "mature" . . . as in, "the excitement's over and only the diehards remain", kind of mature. Not to mention the economy here is DOA and our government seems eager to dig the grave deeper every day by spending more than we make. In other words, the cream has already been skimmed off the top.

However, a number of countries have a population that has had very little exposure to 1:18, including India, Russia, and China, itself. What these countries have in common are large populations that are getting wealthier. And even if only 1% of the population could afford a 1:18 jet, that would still be a massively huge market. The thinking is "maybe we could develop the 1:18 market in these countries and provide thousands of aircraft for people who have never seen such a large scale. These planes would become extremely popular and people would go nuts over them just like they did in 2003-04 in the USA." The main difference in the airplane lovers in these countries is that they like different airplanes than Americans and Europeans do. That's where the Su-27/J-11 comes into play. It's the pinnacle of fighter technology in these countries and every plane nut growing up wishes they could fly one when they get big.

Looked at from this perspective, the Su-27 makes much more sense. Sure, a small batch might be sent over to America but the really big sales are planned in other countries. So, like the pork chops, the Su-27 really isn't being made for me (us), either."

[WW2birdlover]

I read that too. Does that mean JSI is going to release the Su27 first before the Shenyang?

[aferguson]

is that the paint scheme they're going to be releasing now? If so, i'm in. If chinese airforce still, i'm out.

[NWarty]

I MIGHT be in. Su-27 yep / J-11 nope. But I ain't preorderin' squat! Fool me once they say.

[VMF115]

Nope its a 1/32 trumpeter model.

http://www.naritafamily.com/Scalemodel/ ... allery.htm

[NWarty]

Good catch VMF! I thought that Su-27 looked familiar as I've had Narita's Tomcat page bookmarked while doing some weathering on my own Cat.

[Jason of Admiral Toys]

I respectfully disagree with all of this logic. Subject matter might be a constituent to selling more aircraft in Asia; however, it is not the subject matter that is the deciding factor for these foreign customers, size matters. There is a reason that only a handful of factories make 1:18 scale models and no less than a thousand making small scale military collectibles. This market laughs at large scale models. They want to pay large sums of money for highly detailed nano scale models. They do not have the room to collect our models. I know that size has always been an issue even here in the US, but over there it is a deal breaker! I could not convince my own agent to store one of the existing model we were working on in his house in Macau, a 262. He said it took up too much space and the family was not happy. Unfortunately, he lives in one of the nicer, larger square foot areas of Macau. When we first approached our facilities and agents to produce in 1:18 they thought we were crazy and that it would never last...

Therefore, to say that JSI is manufacturing for a region that literally points and laughs at this scale...? They need to focus on the largest market, for 1:18, in the world, the US market.

They "really" hate pork-chops!!!

Just my two cents,
Regards,
Jason

[Black_Dragon_One]

From Badcat's blog:

" JSI 1:18 Su-27 the Reason Behind the Madness



I walked home from the warehouse recently and Maria was already preparing supper when I walked through the door. "Porkchops?", I said disappointedly. "Why pork chops? You know I don't like pork chops."

Maria replied, "I like pork chops, that's why. Make yourself some Top Ramen if you won't eat them."

----------

One of my favorite subjects of "illogical" thinking is the planned choice of the 1:18 scale Su-27 . Figuring a USA market of about 50, as in five - zero, and an estimated breakeven point of 20K units, this airplane seemed to me to make about as much sense as selling Twister to convalescent homes. But after a phone conversation today with a distributor, I may have to rethink my views.

Our friends in China may well believe the 1:18 scale airplane market in the USA to be "mature" . . . as in, "the excitement's over and only the diehards remain", kind of mature. Not to mention the economy here is DOA and our government seems eager to dig the grave deeper every day by spending more than we make. In other words, the cream has already been skimmed off the top.

However, a number of countries have a population that has had very little exposure to 1:18, including India, Russia, and China, itself. What these countries have in common are large populations that are getting wealthier. And even if only 1% of the population could afford a 1:18 jet, that would still be a massively huge market. The thinking is "maybe we could develop the 1:18 market in these countries and provide thousands of aircraft for people who have never seen such a large scale. These planes would become extremely popular and people would go nuts over them just like they did in 2003-04 in the USA." The main difference in the airplane lovers in these countries is that they like different airplanes than Americans and Europeans do. That's where the Su-27/J-11 comes into play. It's the pinnacle of fighter technology in these countries and every plane nut growing up wishes they could fly one when they get big.

Looked at from this perspective, the Su-27 makes much more sense. Sure, a small batch might be sent over to America but the really big sales are planned in other countries. So, like the pork chops, the Su-27 really isn't being made for me (us), either."

so when i buy booth type..

i already invested my airbrush..

[NWarty]

Take a look at the Disclaimer taken from BCA's blogpost above the JSI Su-27/J-11.

BCARob says it's a 1/48 model, which it clearly isn't as pointed out by VMF115. It's the Trumpeter 1/32 Su-27. Now, go to Masa Narita's site to see the original photos here:

http://www.naritafamily.com/howto/Su27/photo_frame.htm

Claiming copying parts of the article is prohibited??? Isn't BCA just ripping off Narita's photo, claiming it's their own by using the above disclaimer?

Just sayin'

[EDIT] I didn't see VMF's link above, but it'll get you to the same spot.

[aferguson]

i totally agree with Jason. Here in north america we have a luxury of space like nowhere else on earth, except maybe in Australia, not sure.

We can cram a few dozen 1/18 planes into most homes here....everywhere else they could hardly squeeze in one or two. That's why all the small scale collectilbes exist and why a lot of them come from countries like Japan.

Point being that if JSI wants to sell 1/18 planes than they better be catering to the 'mature' north american marketplace...cause that's who will buy or not buy, most of 'em.

So i think it's in their best interest if they don't make a chinese airforce su-27....and i still think a 2 seater su-27 is a pretty dumb idea too. Single seat in Russian markings and it will sell through.

[NWarty]

+1
Agreed

[VMF115]

Afreg, I agree but at this point I think and the indicators are pointing to "JSI knows best" type of attitude...since they probably see themselves as the only game in town...they can make the rules.....LOL...
and with that they will fail.

A single seat SU-27 in Russian markings followed by F-15 which is followed by the Mig-29 which is followed by an F-14D. would be a nice round up.....oh and lets not forget about the At-10 and the Hind! but I think the world economy will crash and will be lucky to have the 2 seat SU-27.

Then the Zombie Apocalypse arrives, and we are all screwed...

[VMF115]

Hay All! Its double post Thursday!!!!

[WW2birdlover]

Is there a reason for folks preferring a single-seat Su-27? Figures to be purchased?

[VMF115]

Is there a reason for folks preferring a single-seat Su-27? Figures to be purchased?

I like the look of the single seat version more.

[WW2birdlover]

Is there a reason for folks preferring a single-seat Su-27? Figures to be purchased?

I like the look of the single seat version more.

I think you're right, even the single-seat F15 looks better than the 2-seater. But, I think we're gonna get the 2 seater versions from JSI since those are the ones pic'd on their site, unfortunately.

[dragon53]

What "figures to be purchased"?....I'm still waiting for the F-14 figures.

[WW2birdlover]

Well, hence the wink

[aferguson]

"since they probably see themselves as the only game in town...they can make the rules"


that's ebay's attitude and at least they are correct, and they are still screwing things up royaly.

JSI better listen, very, very carefully to its fan base if they want to make it in 1/18.

[VMF115]

"since they probably see themselves as the only game in town...they can make the rules"


that's ebay's attitude and at least they are correct, and they are still screwing things up royaly.

JSI better listen, very, very carefully to its fan base if they want to make it in 1/18.

I agree....not too, will lead to JSI dropping 1/18th which, will lead to a Zombie Apocalypse..well maybe not but it will cause us 1/18th collectors to roam mindlessly through the stores and the Internet looking for the next 1/18th company to fulfill or fix...lol

Panes need panes...paannnnnnnesssssssss!

panes is planes in Zombie...lol

[456THBG]

OK, maybe it's time for the 1/18 scale collectors to form our own "Tea Party" coalition & unify our message to the (very few) manufacturers out there...Here's what we want, here's what we'll buy, here's what you'll make!
Anybody speak Chinese

[pcsguy88]

At this point, the lack of an A-10 just seems asinine. I know Jason pointed out the reasons, but JSI threw all those reason out the window with the F-14. Seriously, is there anyone here who would not buy an A-10? How about 2, 1 camo, 1 grey? I really like the looks of that SU-27, but pocket change is drying up for toys and if I'm going to scrape pennies together for months to drop on a $200+ bird, it better be an icon.

And why the hell has bbi not made the Hind or Havok? Such a shame.

[VMF115]

Popcorn anyone????

[gburch]

Like Jason, I'm a professional "China Hand" in the sense that my work takes me to China. On the other hand, I'm about a million years older than Jason and I think he was still crawling around on the floor the first time I went to China -- folks were still wearing Mao jackets and getting over the GPCR hangover then.

With that statement of "bona fides," I have to side with the opinion in Bad Cat's blog. Yes, the average Chinese home is much smaller than the average American home and there will be less room, ON AVERAGE, for big big big 1/18 models. BUT even if the PERCENTAGE of the Chinese market that can find a place for a collection of giant 1/18 models is small, the ABSOLUTE numbers are not insignificant and, more importantly, will grow.

Beyond that, there's no question that the last few years have seen a rapid growth of interest in all things military among the general Chinese population, and this trend is likely to continue for a good while.

Given this, I think there's EASILY a native Chinese market for runs of ~10s of thousands of 1/18 modern Chinese hardware over the next ten years.

[pcsguy88]

I absolutely agree with you. In the 1:16 RC tank arena, Russia and east Europe are leaps and bounds ahead of the US. Japan started it, the Chinese copied it and now makes original stuff and the Russians buy it up. Bbi would make a killing if they made a Russian line with Hind, Frogfoot, T-72 and T-90s. The Russian market is why I have a KV-1 driving around my yard and the German market is why it's 80% metal.